Execs Unfiltered On All 32 Draft Classes

[DrDawkinstein]

38 minutes ago, Billl said:

I think he’s going to be a very good player for a long time.  I just don’t see it with Epenesa nor Basham, and I really liked both coming out of the draft.

 

Both were selected far after, and neither were as heralded prospects, as... Chris Kelsay. So keep that perspective when judging how they are performing vs their draft position.

[purple haze]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

Do you feel like they’ve lived up to their draft slots so far?

I don’t think this is a fair question regarding rookies selected where they were.  Rousseau did some good things.   Basham is a second round pass rusher.  That alone tells you he needs development in technique and is a good, but not elite athlete.  The greatest pass rushers in NFL history usually have elite physical traits.   So, I don’t know what you expected from him as a rookie.   

[Don Otreply]

WGAF what this guy has to say?, bad mouthing one’s peers says a lot about the individual who says it. I’ll be willing to bet whoever it was didn’t make the playoffs… Beane, one of if not the highest rank GM in the league at present, put that in your pipe and smoke it Mr mystery exec. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

2 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Rousseau was picked 30th in round 1 and Epenesa and Basham were late 2nd round picks.  Shocking that they haven’t been as good as a top 10 pick DE…

 

The other thing many are ready to label Epenesa a bust (and doubts on Basham) as he's hardly had much playing time.  He's had to beat out two experienced vets in Addison and Hughes.  And this past year add in a rookie 1st rounder.  Wasn't the first one off the bench either, but the backups also were all more experienced.

 

This year with Addison and Hughes gone, no place for them to hide.  He could be a bust, but lets wait to December to decide as this will be a make or break year.  Wouldn't also totally shock me to see Epenesa get's traded

[Jauronimo]

2 hours ago, Sestak4ever said:

Need to be patient with our picks, especially defensive linemen. Hughes never panned out for the Colts. We definitely benefited from their impatience.

But we gave up Kelvin Sheppard!

 

Say what you want about Whaley, but the guy was an excellent pro personnel scout.

[Saint Doug]

What was he saying about Punt God? That PG wouldn’t be able to get it off in time or that the punt returner would muff the catch?

[Fan in Chicago]

4 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

The other thing many are ready to label Epenesa a bust (and doubts on Basham) as he's hardly had much playing time.  He's had to beat out two experienced vets in Addison and Hughes.  And this past year add in a rookie 1st rounder.  Wasn't the first one off the bench either, but the backups also were all more experienced.

 

The other way to think about AJE is that in his second year, he could not beat out Addison. 

It is too early to pronounce judgment on Rousseau and Basham but Epenesa did not even trend in the right direction by the end of his second season. Let see if he turns out to be a late bloomer like Knox. But he is going to have only a few opportunities to show himself off in a rather crowded DE room. If he doesnt make the best if his chances, he wont dress on game days. 

[DapperCam]

1 hour ago, Allen2Diggs said:

Epenesa has shown very little except for that one preseason rep where he absolutely destroyed the OT on his way to hit the qb.

 

I thought Basham showed some promise last year. He did manage 3 sacks in the regular season despite very little playing time (only one less that Rousseau) plus one more in the postseason. He isn't explosive, but he can be a solid part of the rotation.

Didn't Epenesa kill Tua? I see some nice things from Epenesa, especially speed when he gets near the QB. He doesn't seem to get playing time, so I don't think he's impressing the coaches much.

[DCofNC]

3 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Rousseau was picked 30th in round 1 and Epenesa and Basham were late 2nd round picks.  Shocking that they haven’t been as good as a top 10 pick DE…

Groot did as well as one could hope, the other two can’t crack a talentless rotation, that’s 2 wasted 2nd round picks if they don’t figure it out quickly.  The second round pick should be a near immediate starter, since Beane has been in charge they haven’t gotten a single starter in 4 years from round 2 and he APPEARS  to have whiffed on every top pick for the DL.  Yes Oliver is starting, but nobody would give you a first round pick for his performance.  Thus far, Beane has not HIT on a single top end draft pick on the defense.  What the other GM said is completely accurate.
 

[FilthyBeast]

As much as I hate to admit it, the Chiefs and Ravens organizations are still the class of the NFL with Veach and DeCosta respectively leading their front offices and killing it on the regular.

 

The Chiefs in particular probably had the best draft overall on paper and I think both McDuffie and Karlaftis are going to end up being perrenial probowl type of players. Karlaftis in particular could be a big time steal and projects similarly to Jared Allen who chiefs drafted way back when, but looks like an even better prospect since Allen was a mere 4th round pick.

 

Overall though, you still need to way a good 3 years down the road to know who truly nailed this draft and who didn't but the aforementioned teams are always going to get benefit of the doubt given their track records and SB trophies in the last decade.

[DapperCam]

3 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Groot did as well as one could hope, the other two can’t crack a talentless rotation, that’s 2 wasted 2nd round picks if they don’t figure it out quickly.  The second round pick should be a near immediate starter, since Beane has been in charge they haven’t gotten a single starter in 4 years from round 2 and he APPEARS  to have whiffed on every top pick for the DL.  Yes Oliver is starting, but nobody would give you a first round pick for his performance.  Thus far, Beane has not HIT on a single top end draft pick on the defense.  What the other GM said is completely accurate.
 

Both taken at the very end of the 2nd round. Look at the bottom of the second/beginning of the third the past five years or so. It's a 50/50 chance that those picks are total busts let alone immediate starters (for any team, not just the Bills).

[mjt328]

2 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Who's the "exec" that is literally laughing/mocking the idea that players actually develop? Esp late 1st rounders and 2nd rounders. Dude needs to shut up and look within maybe :). This is why there are perpetually poor organizations (hell ,we were one for quite some time aye?) in a league that drives everyone to the median.

 

The same type of executive that passes on Josh Allen, for someone like Baker Mayfield, Tua or Mac Jones.

 

Brandon Beane likes to draft "high ceiling" guys, who take 3-4 years to develop.  He values athletic talent and long-term potential... over the prospect who is ready to contribute Day 1, but doesn't have as much room to develop.  

 

We saw it with Allen.  We saw it with Ed Oliver and Dawson Knox last year.  The next ones up are guys like AJ Epenesa, Gabriel Davis, Greg Rousseau, Boogie Basham, Spencer Brown, etc.  Anyone writing those guys off already is a fool.

 

[FilthyBeast]

3 hours ago, Sestak4ever said:

Need to be patient with our picks, especially defensive linemen. Hughes never panned out for the Colts. We definitely benefited from their impatience.

 

Hughes is somewhat of an outlier though and outside of his two peak years under Marrone where he got 10 sack each season, he's never had a double digit sack year and still think he's a bit overrated overall by some Bills fans.

 

As for some of our other younger guys on the dline I think Oliver has definitely made the right type of progress even if he never ends up being a truly elite player in this league. Both Groot and Basham flashed last year and are expected to contribute in 2022.

 

I think the only guy that's truly a bust is Epenesa and I don't see him on the final roster at the start of the season unless he can prove he's not just a practice warrior like he seemed to be last year but fizzled once the regular season began.

[mjt328]

23 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Groot did as well as one could hope, the other two can’t crack a talentless rotation, that’s 2 wasted 2nd round picks if they don’t figure it out quickly.  The second round pick should be a near immediate starter, since Beane has been in charge they haven’t gotten a single starter in 4 years from round 2 and he APPEARS  to have whiffed on every top pick for the DL.  Yes Oliver is starting, but nobody would give you a first round pick for his performance.  Thus far, Beane has not HIT on a single top end draft pick on the defense.  What the other GM said is completely accurate.

 

It's fair to question AJ Epenesa, since it's been two years.  But the rest of this post was ridiculous.

 

Everyone knew from the start that Greg Rousseau and Boogie Basham weren't going to play much last season.  We already had solid vets in front of them.  Jerry Hughes and Mario Addison may be past their prime, but I would hardly call them "talentless."   Rousseau did great in the run game, and hardly played on third downs last year.  Even though he technically started, the team is clearly bringing him along very slow as a pass rusher.

 

Ed Oliver took a huge step and played very good last year.  Don't be surprised if he's playing at a Pro-Bowl level in 2022.

 

The only other "top end pick" Beane has spent on defense was with Tremaine Edmunds, who has made two Pro-Bowls and continues to be a valuable piece of the #1 defense (scoring and yardage) in the NFL last year.  People expected him to be Ray Lewis or Luke Kuechly, which was unfair.  He's a solid starting middle LB, and if the Bills are forced to let him walk next year, he will be a very coveted free agent.

 

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

Epenesa has shown very little except for that one preseason rep where he absolutely destroyed the OT on his way to hit the qb.

 

I thought Basham showed some promise last year. He did manage 3 sacks in the regular season despite very little playing time (only one less that Rousseau) plus one more in the postseason. He isn't explosive, but he can be a solid part of the rotation.

 

Epenesa absolutely owned the first Miami game and was responsible for knocking Tua out of the game. HE's had a few other good plays too. It's been a bit more than one preseason rep (but granted, not much more).

[AuntieEm]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

some

 

[billybrew1]

5 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

New article from The Athletic, nothing groundbreaking regarding the Bills:

 

Well, maybe except for the implication Beane doesn’t know how to evaluate the trenches. Slow news day.

Article

 

How would anyone know at all if we can evaluate the DL well or not? Develop them or not? We’ve had more misses than true hits. Murphy was a big bomb. We’ll find out this year how well or not Beane drafted along the DL…. And till then…we just don’t know.

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, NoSaint said:

its not

 

 

but using a 1 and two 2s to is like investing the value of a pick in the teens. Having 3 guys the hope would be 1 breaks out to be a solid starter. If we added another pass rusher in the first this year it would be a viable question to ask if we aren’t evaluating the talent well if none of them broke out. 

 

I don't this logic works...I mean no 2 drafts are the same.  We can't control what DE's are available when we pick or what the quality of the draft is at DE overall.  

 

More importantly is the value we got with those picks when we made them:

 

AJE was a projected first rounder, and many felt he was the 2nd best DE in the draft behind Chase Young...So getting him in the 2nd was great value there and easily the BPA on many boards at that point.  

 

Rousseau seemed like he was headed for a top 15 maybe top 10 pick or better after his 2019 season.  He only fell to us on the fact he sat out 2020 and others moved up the ladder in the first after they had good 2020 seasons.  So getting Rousseau where we did was once again good value based on his last played season.

 

Basham was being projected as possible late first rounder or 2nd rounder by most.  So we even got some value there when we picked him too.  

 

So overall, I would say we got great value in the picks when we made the picks, and can't fault Beane for taking them where he got them.  And we had aging DE's at both starting spots, so we needed to add young prospects there as well.  

[GunnerBill]

I never thought much of Boogie. I know the consensus was the Bills got a bargain at the end of round 2 but personally I thought he still went a round higher than his ability should dictate. 

 

The question with AJE is why did they take an out and out power rusher in the middle of round two and then spend a year trying to turn him into a speed rusher. 

 

Ed is a stud. Groot was solid as a rook and I am confident will take another step. Boogie and AJE are in now or never territory.

Edited May 6, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Mango]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Both were selected far after, and neither were as heralded prospects, as... Chris Kelsay. So keep that perspective when judging how they are performing vs their draft position.

 

This made me chuckle because Epenesa sort of reminded me of a poor mans Chris Kelsay coming out of the draft. As a player he feels pretty bland. Kind of like Anne from Arrested development.