Execs Unfiltered On All 32 Draft Classes

[Ralonzo]

2 hours ago, Saint Doug said:

What was he saying about Punt God? That PG wouldn’t be able to get it off in time or that the punt returner would muff the catch?

The second thing, I believe.

[JohnNord]

5 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Rousseau was picked 30th in round 1 and Epenesa and Basham were late 2nd round picks.  Shocking that they haven’t been as good as a top 10 pick DE…

But the point still stands that the returns from these players hasn’t been great so.  I do think you can call into question the ability of Beane, McDermott, and staff to draft and develop defensive ends.  They’ve taken a few swings and nothing really has materialized 

[OldTimer1960]

5 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

But the point still stands that the returns from these players hasn’t been great so.  I do think you can call into question the ability of Beane, McDermott, and staff to draft and develop defensive ends.  They’ve taken a few swings and nothing really has materialized 

Again, late in the rounds, theoretically you aren’t getting as talented of player as early in the rounds.  It’s also pretty early to give up on Rousseau and Basham after only their rookie year - and Rousseau was a starter who played well.  Sack numbers are not the only measure of a DE.  Also, Bills’ secondary plays soft zone a lot which gives QBs easy underneath throws which doesn’t give the pass rush much time to get home.  Hopefully, the DEs develop and Elam, White and Jackson can be more aggressive in coverage to give the rush more time.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I never thought much of Boogie. I know the consensus was the Bills got a bargain at the end of round 2 but personally I thought he still went a round higher than his ability should dictate. 

 

The question with AJE is why did they take an out and out power rusher in the middle of round two and then spend a year trying to turn him into a speed rusher. 

 

Ed is a stud. Groot was solid as a rook and I am confident will take another step. Boogie and AJE are in now or never territory.

The answer seems to be because he wasn't strong enough to be a power rusher in the NFL which makes the pick even more confusing.  

[Areola Grande]

I'm convinced the value Beane places on interior OL is somewhere between 🤮-->🗑️-->💩, despite the fact that it's been a consistent problem ever since he arrived [both with the play of the guys they've played musical chairs with, and the Teller/Spain crap we're sick of talking about by now]. He hasn't drafted a single iOL since coming here (not really counting 7th rounder Jack Anderson and Ford was taken as a highly-graded OT prospect). Hoping a new OL coach changes things because Bobby Johnson was awful, but seriously... it was like déjà vu from last year...

 

Creed Humphrey was in our laps, we turn down a favorable trade offer to take... Boogie Basham - with all those f***ing annoying characterizations ("raw, developmental "project" that will "compete" and "add depth".. ugh)?! Spent the first 3+ months of the season watching Cody Ford, Feliciano, Boettger, player X, Y, etc. play competing ole' turnstyle games while Humphrey looks like a lock 10-year pro bowler, barring health.

 

Rinse and repeat in the 3rd round. For the life of me I have tried really hard like the die-hard homer that I am to justify and rationalize that Terrel Bernard head-scratcher. Obviously I hope I'm dead wrong and he's a stud but he's just not going to play a significant role on the defense unless there are injuries.

 

It's particularly annoying because Creed was taken 63rd after Basham at 61 and Dylan Parham was taken minutes after Kyle Brandt put on that cringeworthy spectacle and kind of perplexed everyone.

 

Ok. Got that the negative Nancy b***hing out of the way. I realize this has been a franchise-changing front office and we've gone from decades in the tank to amongst the perennial contenders for the foreseeable future, I'm placing all my hopes on Elam becoming a top-25-40 NFL corner and Shakir being this year's late-round diamond in the rough.

 

Let's go Bills

Edited May 6, 2022 by Areola Grande

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I don't this logic works...I mean no 2 drafts are the same.  We can't control what DE's are available when we pick or what the quality of the draft is at DE overall.  

 

More importantly is the value we got with those picks when we made them:

 

AJE was a projected first rounder, and many felt he was the 2nd best DE in the draft behind Chase Young...So getting him in the 2nd was great value there and easily the BPA on many boards at that point.  

 

Rousseau seemed like he was headed for a top 15 maybe top 10 pick or better after his 2019 season.  He only fell to us on the fact he sat out 2020 and others moved up the ladder in the first after they had good 2020 seasons.  So getting Rousseau where we did was once again good value based on his last played season.

 

Basham was being projected as possible late first rounder or 2nd rounder by most.  So we even got some value there when we picked him too.  

 

So overall, I would say we got great value in the picks when we made the picks, and can't fault Beane for taking them where he got them.  And we had aging DE's at both starting spots, so we needed to add young prospects there as well.  

flip side to that argument if all of them (plus another) flop is that we may have either missed something others saw or… 

 

the quote was simply saying if he went with another young guy and none were impact players people might wonder if it’s a weakness in our front office. Quite a few steps to get there but if we got there it’d be fair questioning at least.

[FLFan]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

But the point still stands that the returns from these players hasn’t been great so.  I do think you can call into question the ability of Beane, McDermott, and staff to draft and develop defensive ends.  They’ve taken a few swings and nothing really has materialized 

No, you really can’t.  It is much too early to evaluate these players and the implication that they  are busts this early in the process is misguided at best.  The fact is you would be hard pressed to find a DE drafted in a similar time frame in a similar position who has out performed them.  All three of these players by definition are projects at that position.  The points seemingly being made in that article are BS at best.  

Edited May 6, 2022 by FLFan

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

It's fair to question AJ Epenesa, since it's been two years.  But the rest of this post was ridiculous.

 

Everyone knew from the start that Greg Rousseau and Boogie Basham weren't going to play much last season.  We already had solid vets in front of them.  Jerry Hughes and Mario Addison may be past their prime, but I would hardly call them "talentless."   Rousseau did great in the run game, and hardly played on third downs last year.  Even though he technically started, the team is clearly bringing him along very slow as a pass rusher.

 

Ed Oliver took a huge step and played very good last year.  Don't be surprised if he's playing at a Pro-Bowl level in 2022.

 

The only other "top end pick" Beane has spent on defense was with Tremaine Edmunds, who has made two Pro-Bowls and continues to be a valuable piece of the #1 defense (scoring and yardage) in the NFL last year.  People expected him to be Ray Lewis or Luke Kuechly, which was unfair.  He's a solid starting middle LB, and if the Bills are forced to let him walk next year, he will be a very coveted free agent.

 

All the talent in front of those guys can barely get league minimum… or has t signed, sooo…

[eball]

4 hours ago, Allen2Diggs said:

Epenesa has shown very little except for that one preseason rep where he absolutely destroyed the OT on his way to hit the qb.

 

I thought Basham showed some promise last year. He did manage 3 sacks in the regular season despite very little playing time (only one less that Rousseau) plus one more in the postseason. He isn't explosive, but he can be a solid part of the rotation.

 

Didn’t Epenesa break Tua’s ribs?

 

Anyway, to suggest that the Bills “missed” on those three DEs at this stage is spurious at best.  Let’s give ‘em a bit of time.

 

[Shake_My_Head]

It was all smoke before the draft, all $hite after.

 

I stopped reading after the guy said Kyle Hamiliton (9.33 RAS) "checked every box except for the athletic component."

[DCofNC]

33 minutes ago, Areola Grande said:

I'm convinced the value Beane places on interior OL is somewhere between 🤮-->🗑️-->💩, despite the fact that it's been a consistent problem ever since he arrived [both with the play of the guys they've played musical chairs with, and the Teller/Spain crap we're sick of talking about by now]. He hasn't drafted a single iOL since coming here (not really counting 7th rounder Jack Anderson and Ford was taken as a highly-graded OT prospect). Hoping a new OL coach changes things because Bobby Johnson was awful, but seriously... it was like déjà vu from last year...

 

Creed Humphrey was in our laps, we turn down a favorable trade offer to take... Boogie Basham - with all those f***ing annoying characterizations ("raw, developmental "project" that will "compete" and "add depth".. ugh)?! Spent the first 3+ months of the season watching Cody Ford, Feliciano, Boettger, player X, Y, etc. play competing ole' turnstyle games while Humphrey looks like a lock 10-year pro bowler, barring health.

 

Rinse and repeat in the 3rd round. For the life of me I have tried really hard like the die-hard homer that I am to justify and rationalize that Terrel Bernard head-scratcher. Obviously I hope I'm dead wrong and he's a stud but he's just not going to play a significant role on the defense unless there are injuries.

 

It's particularly annoying because Creed was taken 63rd after Basham at 61 and Dylan Parham was taken minutes after Kyle Brandt put on that cringeworthy spectacle and kind of perplexed everyone.

 

Ok. Got that the negative Nancy b***hing out of the way. I realize this has been a franchise-changing front office and we've gone from decades in the tank to amongst the perennial contenders for the foreseeable future, I'm placing all my hopes on Elam becoming a top-25-40 NFL corner and Shakir being this year's late-round diamond in the rough.

 

Let's go Bills

Yes! People fail to look at the opportunity cost of taking these projects instead of the best player.  I call Bull on Beane drafting BPA, he has consistently drafted for need early and it’s worked exactly 1 time.  Every other hole he’s forced a pick to fill in the draft has been a failure.  Later in the draft when they appear to go after BPA, the results are much better.  THIS is why BPA matters. 

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, JohnNord said:

But the point still stands that the returns from these players hasn’t been great so.  I do think you can call into question the ability of Beane, McDermott, and staff to draft and develop defensive ends.  They’ve taken a few swings and nothing really has materialized 

Aje sure, but Boogie and Groot, I disagree. Both guys came in needing to refine their game, ESPECIALLY Groot. Coming into last year he had ONE season playing DE, in his life. We saw a freak, that carried good 1st rd value, but knew he would be a project.

 

I expect a really good year out of him, time will tell mid-point year 3, on exactly how well it paid off. I'm taking those odds all day

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, All I Need is Hope said:

Not sure you could expect much better from the 30th pick, Rousseau, as a first-year edge.

 

39 solo, 4 sacks, 1 ff, 1 interception... strong edge setter and relentless.  Agree, not overly twitchy or bendy, but impacts games.

 

 

TJ Watt (Steelers) in his 1st year:

40 Solo, 7 sacks, 1 FF, 1 INT....  Pick number 30 in the 2017 Draft

 

Season 2... 13 sacks

[LyndonvilleBill]

10 hours ago, ganesh said:

TJ Watt (Steelers) in his 1st year:

40 Solo, 7 sacks, 1 FF, 1 INT....  Pick number 30 in the 2017 Draft

 

Season 2... 13 sacks

Not really sure you can compare TJ and Groot for their rookie season.

 

TJ played 82% of defensive snaps and Groot played 49% (751 to 541). 240 more snaps for TJ to get 3 sacks and 1 more solo tackle. Plus Groot didn't even play the year prior. So I agree with Hope. Not sure we could have expected much better and I look forward to season 2 results.😁

[Not at the table Karlos]

17 hours ago, DapperCam said:

Didn't Epenesa kill Tua? I see some nice things from Epenesa, especially speed when he gets near the QB. He doesn't seem to get playing time, so I don't think he's impressing the coaches much.

I agree with this. Epenesa gets pressure he just struggles to bring the QB down. Theres a bunch of plays where AJ beats the lineman and has shot at QB, makes contact and slides right off. If he can bring them down he will be fine. 

 

Idk if it's lack of strength from transforming his body or what but he's shown the ability to get to QB he just needs to finish. Something that's been a problem with our defense for years. 

[BuffaloRebound]

Epenesa reminds me of Trent Murphy. Decent athlete but gets rag-dolled by O-Linemen way too much.  

[ganesh]

2 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Not really sure you can compare TJ and Groot for their rookie season.

 

TJ played 82% of defensive snaps and Groot played 49% (751 to 541). 240 more snaps for TJ to get 3 sacks and 1 more solo tackle. Plus Groot didn't even play the year prior. So I agree with Hope. Not sure we could have expected much better and I look forward to season 2 results.😁

Yeah. I was not trying to bring down. Rosseau.  More about the similarities and that he has a chance to shine especially with Miller playing on the opposite side.

[HankBulloughMellencamp]

14 hours ago, eball said:

 

Didn’t Epenesa break Tua’s ribs?

 

Anyway, to suggest that the Bills “missed” on those three DEs at this stage is spurious at best.  Let’s give ‘em a bit of time.

 

 

And this is how the Bills have operated nowadays anyway... they let their drafted guys develop through their (relatively cheap) rookie deals & don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  Ex: Singletary, Ford, Knox...

 

 

[bigK14094]

21 hours ago, All I Need is Hope said:

Not sure you could expect much better from the 30th pick, Rousseau, as a first-year edge.

 

39 solo, 4 sacks, 1 ff, 1 interception... strong edge setter and relentless.  Agree, not overly twitchy or bendy, but impacts games.

 

 

Rousseau is young and has many tools.  He  can play football and contribute.  Will he be a speed edge rusher, don't know, but give him a chance to learn his trade, he only played one year of college ball.

2 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Epenesa reminds me of Trent Murphy. Decent athlete but gets rag-dolled by O-Linemen way too much.  

AJ has gone through a complete makeover since coming to Buffalo.  He  change his body per the Bills workout instructions and is play differently than he did in college.  This is year 3, and its not out of the question that he will make an large incremental jump in performance.

[muppy]

 Im giving props for making me laugh when I read your chat handler LOL very creative and word smithy funny

 

@Areola Grande

Edited May 7, 2022 by muppy