Which is stronger, Josh Allen's arm or Matt Araiza's leg ?

[LeGOATski]

26 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

For sheer distance in terms of where the ball ends up, it might be close.

If you could put a little GPS chip inside the ball, though, and measure its complete trajectory, the punter will EASILY go way farther.

 

Think of the muscle groups involved.  A leg is a hell of a lot stronger than an arm, even if you are Josh Allen and you throw with your entire body in a torquing motion, which is where his power comes from.

 

 

I feel like you're kind of contradicting yourself here. Yes, the leg is stronger than the arm...if Josh is just swatting the ball like a fly...

[Orlando Buffalo]

If we are including bounces the leg, if just straight in the air arm. 

[Brand J]

32 minutes ago, mrags said:

He made less than Haack did last year. Like half as much. I doubt this statement is true. 

I don’t know what he made after he left the Bills, but that’s what happened when he was here. Although I should add it was mostly speculation as to why a deal couldn’t get done in Buffalo, with most believing it was because him and his camp were asking for too much, but the Bills were definitely interested in bringing him back. And Beane commented on it during and after.

Bojorquez averaged 50.8 yards in his last season with the Bills, which was 4th best in NFL history, so I’m sure he had a certain value in mind for himself.

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by JayBaller10

[mrags]

10 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I don’t know what he made after he left the Bills, but that’s what happened when he was here. Although I should add it was mostly speculation as to why a deal couldn’t get done in Buffalo, with most believing it was because him and his camp were asking for too much, but the Bills were definitely interested in bringing him back. And Beane commented on it during and after.

Well, their salaries last year tell you completely different. I think you are paying too much attention to what people actually say because Haack made almost double what Bojo did last year. If they were prepared to pay Haack that much, they surely would have been willing to pay Bojo that much. The fact is they weren’t comfortable with him being place holder for Bass. Which is also why he was cut from the Packers. And it’s exactly why Beane (if you want to pay attention to what he has said) said in his press conference yesterday that there’s much more to punting that just kicking the ball. He specifically brought up holding and said that Haack is an “elite holder”. Takes about holding the ball for almost 5 minutes out of a 20+ minute press conference about all the draft picks. 
 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/matt-haack-22270/

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/corey-bojorquez-25923/

[Brand J]

4 minutes ago, mrags said:

Well, their salaries last year tell you completely different. I think you are paying too much attention to what people actually say because Haack made almost double what Bojo did last year. If they were prepared to pay Haack that much, they surely would have been willing to pay Bojo that much. The fact is they weren’t comfortable with him being place holder for Bass. Which is also why he was cut from the Packers. And it’s exactly why Beane (if you want to pay attention to what he has said) said in his press conference yesterday that there’s much more to punting that just kicking the ball. He specifically brought up holding and said that Haack is an “elite holder”. Takes about holding the ball for almost 5 minutes out of a 20+ minute press conference about all the draft picks. 
 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/matt-haack-22270/

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/corey-bojorquez-25923/

No arguments from me in terms of Bojorquez’s holding. He sucked at it and Bass felt it as well. I just think Corey had a higher opinion of himself than what the Bills thought so they went a different direction. Corey never got his big payday either. Here are McBeane’s words to the situation:

 

Quote

“We’re always trying to improve our roster,” McDermott said. “Corey was in a situation where he had a good year and we got to a situation where both sides were talking and we just felt we had an opportunity that’s best for our team. At the end of the day, we wish Corey the best.”

 

“The one thing is, we’ve got a young kicker, we plan to have Reid (Ferguson) here as a long snapper – we were looking for someone who definitely wanted to be here for the long term,” Beane said. “We just weren’t on the same page (with Bojorquez), so we decided to look elsewhere and we’re very excited. We’ve obviously seen Matt up close (in the AFC East), he’s in the building and we’re excited to add him to our group.”

 

But anyway, just because Bojórquez could never get it right, I don’t think it’s fair to have all these reservations about Araiza when holding has really never been an issue in the team’s history. It’s not like we’re asking him to run routes against NFL DBs. 

 

 

 

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

No arguments from me in terms of Bojorquez’s holding. He sucked at it and Bass felt it as well. I just think Corey had a higher opinion of himself than what the Bills thought so they went a different direction. Corey never got his big payday either. Here are McBeane’s words to the situation:

 

 

But anyway, just because Bojórquez could never get it right, I don’t think it’s fair to have all these reservations about Araiza when holding has really never been an issue in the team’s history. It’s not like we’re asking him to run routes against NFL DBs. 

 

 

 

I don’t see anything in those quotes that are legit confirmations that they actually tried to sign him and Bojo wanted out. More of Beane speaking nicely about a former player and not trashing him. At the end of the day he was very good at punting. It was his holding that has ruined him. On 3 different teams now as it stands. 
 

 

But, you are correct. Just because Araiza hasn’t really don’t it or hasn’t proved it, doesn’t mean he won’t be able to. He’s an accomplished FG kicker as well, so I have no doubt he will be able to get on the same page as Bass and work it all out. Likely more so than other punters because of his FG experience. 

[BigAl2526]

Scientifically, it's the leg and it's not close.  When it comes to launching a football. Josh Allen IMO can make the ball be airborne for a greater distance than Arraiza can punt it.  As has been mentioned, Arraiza's longer punts benefited from roll after they hit the ground.

 

While on the subject of Matt Arraiza, it's clear he's going to have some adjusting to do before he can be a successful pro punter.  Yes, he has that famous "rocket leg," more power than any punter ever.  However, critics say that his timing is so quick, from the instant he gets the ball to the moment it leaves his foot, that his coverage guys don't have as much time as they could to start down the field.  Second, Arraiza has to some extent sacrificed altitude for distance.  Of course, that too can make it tough on your coverage guys.  Thirdly, Arraiza is undeveloped in the art of pinning the other team deep inside the 20.  We've seen tape of him doing exactly that, but those are long punts the receiver wasn't able to get to, and the ball to a good roll, but the way he's punted, once the offence gets to the 50 yard line, and then has to punt, there is a very good chance the ball is going into the end zone for a touchback and 30 yards or less net.  Lastly, because Arraiza was also the kicker for the Aztecs, he has to learn from scratch how to be a holder.  I'm not saying he can't come in and learn all of that stuff, but he is going to have his hands full learning and practicing new techniques between now and the season opener.

[Brand J]

33 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

Scientifically, it's the leg and it's not close.  When it comes to launching a football. Josh Allen IMO can make the ball be airborne for a greater distance than Arraiza can punt it.  As has been mentioned, Arraiza's longer punts benefited from roll after they hit the ground.

 

While on the subject of Matt Arraiza, it's clear he's going to have some adjusting to do before he can be a successful pro punter.  Yes, he has that famous "rocket leg," more power than any punter ever.  However, critics say that his timing is so quick, from the instant he gets the ball to the moment it leaves his foot, that his coverage guys don't have as much time as they could to start down the field.  Second, Arraiza has to some extent sacrificed altitude for distance.  Of course, that too can make it tough on your coverage guys.  Thirdly, Arraiza is undeveloped in the art of pinning the other team deep inside the 20.  We've seen tape of him doing exactly that, but those are long punts the receiver wasn't able to get to, and the ball to a good roll, but the way he's punted, once the offence gets to the 50 yard line, and then has to punt, there is a very good chance the ball is going into the end zone for a touchback and 30 yards or less net.  Lastly, because Arraiza was also the kicker for the Aztecs, he has to learn from scratch how to be a holder.  I'm not saying he can't come in and learn all of that stuff, but he is going to have his hands full learning and practicing new techniques between now and the season opener.

Believe I read he only punted for one year. He may be green as grass, but the upside is huge if that’s the case. I look forward to camp goers giving reports of him and Haack punting side by side.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

For the guy likes pictures and gifs

you dropped the ball.  literally 

 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Kmart128 said:

I think you gotta go with Josh Allens arm... he can throw close to 80 yards.

 

Araiza has 80 yard punts but thats usually with a roll

I saw a punt on the Goal Line to the 20, then a bounce   80+

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Oh I got (at least) 1 more for this 

 

 

 

 

[Wyobills89]

We should include Bass in this as well. He's got one of the strongest legs in the NFL. BILLS going for all strongest...I like it.

[DCofNC]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

If we are including bounces the leg, if just straight in the air arm. 

You need to watch the crazy kicks Arazia has had, from the goal line the ball FLEW to the opposing 18.  The kid can bomb it.  I honestly don’t think Allen can throw it that far.   That said, Bojo has a huge leg and is gone, JaMarcus Russle had a huge arm and was gone in no time, none of it matters unless it’s refined.  The kid has a lot to prove just to take Haacks job.

[BillsFan619]

12 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Let's hope McD chooses Allen's arm in the wind and snow instead of Araiza's leg.

You bring up an interesting point. I think McD has gotten more aggressive with experience and because he can continue to trust Josh Allen more because of his great play.

 

That said, with such a great leg in Araiza, it makes you wonder if there’ll be times where he’ll make decisions knowing he has a punter that can change the field position of a game with one kick.

 

Obviously, he has a QB that can change the trajectory of a game in one play. I’m not even saying it’s wrong if he goes with the leg over the arm every once in a while but it makes you wonder what he’ll do knowing that he has such a fantastic punter at his disposal.

[Doc Brown]

6 minutes ago, BillsFan619 said:

You bring up an interesting point. I think McD has gotten more aggressive with experience and because he can continue to trust Josh Allen more because of his great play.

 

That said, with such a great leg in Araiza, it makes you wonder if there’ll be times where he’ll make decisions knowing he has a punter that can change the field position of a game with one kick.

 

Obviously, he has a QB that can change the trajectory of a game in one play. I’m not even saying it’s wrong if he goes with the leg over the arm every once in a while but it makes you wonder what he’ll do knowing that he has such a fantastic punter at his disposal.

It's an interesting topic.  If Araiza struggles pinning a team inside the 20 then my guess is it'll make them more likely to go for it say 4th and 7 from the opposing teams 44.  On the other hand, 4th and 1 from our own 37 he may send Arazia out there to blast it when he'd go for it if Haack was still our punter.  Who knows.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Doc Brown

[BillsFan619]

3 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

It's an interesting topic.  If Araiza struggles pinning a team inside the 20 then my guess is it'll make them more likely to go for it say 4th and 7 from the opposing teams 44.  On the other hand, 4th and 1 from our own 37 he may send Arazia out there to blast it when he'd go for it if Haack was still our punter.  Who knows.

Good thoughts, Doc. You’re definitely right, it’s an interesting topic.

 

On one hand, it’s really nice knowing that you have a QB that can change the trajectory of the game and a punter that can change field position with one kick. Both are needed every game.

 

That said, you definitely want the mentality to be pedal to the metal with your star QB instead of succumbing to the temptation of the field position game (at least most of the time).

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 hours ago, Wyobills89 said:

We should include Bass in this as well. He's got one of the strongest legs in the NFL. BILLS going for all strongest...I like it.

Except apparently in linebackers…there the Bills go small

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Line them both on the goal line, I figure Allen can hit the 20, Matt Araiza about the 20

 

I assume this could be tried for fun in training camp

 

This could be close...

 

I think Josh Allen's arm is bigger than Matt Araiza's leg

 

11 hours ago, mrags said:

He made less than Haack did last year. Like half as much. I doubt this statement is true. 

 

It was reported at the time, that Bojo wanted a short contract (I dunno about the "more money", maybe that too - having the longest average punt kinda went to his head), because his GF wanted to live in LA so he didn't want to be tied to Buffalo for more than a year.

 

He did wind up working for less than Haack, but only after he drew no interest as a FA for a prolonged time.  He wound up accepting a contract to compete with Johnny Hekker in LA (one of the better punters in the league, how did he think that would work out?) and got traded to the frozen Tundra of GB.

 

Wonder how his GF liked them apples

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

Option #3:

McDermott's clap

[BringBackFergy]

19 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Why are punters and kickers valued so little in the draft I just don’t understand it 

I can see your point when the punter/kicker is from the SEC or Big 10. But drafting a punter from a smaller school is suspect given the competition he went up against (BYU, Air Force, Hawaii). 

[hondo in seattle]

It's not a simple question of which body part is strong: the arm or the leg.

 

Many years ago, as a skinny kid, I could throw a football 55 yards.  That's not impressive, to be sure.  But it was further than most of my friends with much stronger arms.  

 

Throwing isn't all about arm strength.  Throwing uses the whole body.  And you're not pushing the ball, you're catapulting it.  The biomechanics and explosiveness of the throwing motion matter far more than simple arm strength.

 

In the 1997 QB Challenge, Brett Favre threw a ball 75 yards.  Drew Bledsoe threw 74 yards.  Jeff Blake and Jeff George both threw 72 yards.  

 

I wouldn't automatically crown Punt God the winner in this competition.  Josh has a chance.