Ken Dorsey's offense

[hemma]

We’ve got it all.

incredible balance

[Ethan in Cleveland]

5 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Looking at the off season moves that have been made to this point I think there are a couple of things we can assume for Dorsey's offense

 

1.  We will probably see more two tight end sets with OJ Howard and Knox on the field.  Throw Diggs, Gabe, and now Cook out there, and I think Dorsey just created a nightmare for defenses.  I suspect this will overtake 11 personnel as the most common offensive set this year.

 

2.  With the failed run at McKissic, the signing of Duke Johnson, and now the drafting of Cook, I think we are going to see more swing passes, screens, and an overall increase in the involvement of the RBs in the passing game this year.  When the Bills do line up in 11 personnel, if defenses want to play two deep safeties to keep Josh from burning them over the top, they better hope their LBs can tackle because the underneath is going to be wide open and now we have some weapons who can truly exploit it.

 

3.  We have become a faster offense.  With the resigning and likely bigger role for McKenzie, the drafting of Cook, and Marquez Stevenson waiting in the wings, we should see a faster offense.  I hope we finally get to see some of Stevenson on offense this year.  He was buried on the depth chart last year, but with Sanders gone that bumps everyone up one spot on the depth chart.  Beane hasn't gone after one of the burner WRs in the draft so far.  That may be just because of how the draft fell to them, but there is also a possibility that the Bills think they already have their burner on the roster in Stevenson.  I think Crowder is also faster than Beasley and I see a career year for him this year with Josh slinging him the rock.  

 

4.  With the return of Aaron Kromer I think we can expect an improvement in the running game.  The Bills had the #1 rushing attack in the NFL in 2015 and 2016 when Kromer was the O-line coach.  I don't think Buffalo will ever be a run first team as long as Josh is under center, but if we can become more effective in the run game that will pay huge dividends all around for the offense.  The Bills passed the ball 59.2% of the time last season, I expect that number to come down this season.

 

5.  This is related to the point above, an improved running game should also diminish the wear and tear on our franchise QB.  I think called QB runs except for short yardage situations will become few and far between.  Josh will still do Josh things and take off when he sees an opening, but I would be shocked if he is the Bills' leading rusher again this year.

 

6.  This one is more of a guess on my part, but I think the next step in Josh's evolution is being able to completely change the play at the line of scrimmage based on the defensive look on any given play, ala Peyton Manning.  Dorsey is a former QB and I think he will trust Josh with more freedom on the field to make those calls than Daboll did.  We've all seen Josh can make any throw on the field, he is one of the best running QBs in the NFL, I think the next area we see him make a huge leap in is the mental aspect of the game.  This is year five for Josh and I think he is ready to take complete ownership of the offense.

 

7.  This final point is related to the previous one, with the limitless options of running an offense with Howard, Knox, Diggs, Davis, and Cook all on the field at the same time,  I can see the Bills' offense going more up tempo this year.  QBs love the hurry up and Dorsey is a QB at heart.  I think we will see the Bills go no huddle a lot more with Dorsey calling the plays.  It would be a new wrinkle that defenses have to worry about and I think Josh is ready to handle it. 

I agree with every point you made. Honeslty thought we should have done more no huddle last year too. Josh is great in no-huddle. Im expecting a huge year from Knox even if that means a few less catches for Diggs.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Looking at the off season moves that have been made to this point I think there are a couple of things we can assume for Dorsey's offense

 

1.  We will probably see more two tight end sets with OJ Howard and Knox on the field.  Throw Diggs, Gabe, and now Cook out there, and I think Dorsey just created a nightmare for defenses.  I suspect this will overtake 11 personnel as the most common offensive set this year.

 

Good post.

 

Well, anything is possible.  But this seems unlikely:

1) the (1,2) set (2 WR, 1 RB, 2 TE) was the most common offensive set for only one team last season: Miami. 

Only about 1/3 of the teams use the (1,1) set on fewer than 50% of their snaps: Atl, Bal, Cle, Mia, Minn, NO, SF.

 

Do those look like teams we probably want to emulate offensively, to you?

 

I think the 11 set remains our predominant offense.  The focus on signing slot-type WR (Crowder, McKenzie, now drafting Shakir) says to me that Dorsey wants to use 3 WR and wants to be sure he has a reasonable Beasley replacement on-tap.

Then the focus on acquiring/drafting RB who represent a legit pass-catching threat from the backfield (Duke Johnson, now James Cook) may argue that we want to see more (1,2) or even (2,2) sets, but OJ Howard is a guy with all the potential in the world, who hasn't quite proven he can do that thing yet on the field consistently. 

 

So I don't see us decreasing our reliance on WR quite yet, though I hope we will have some more effective wrinkles in the short passing game.

 

6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

2.  With the failed run at McKissic, the signing of Duke Johnson, and now the drafting of Cook, I think we are going to see more swing passes, screens, and an overall increase in the involvement of the RBs in the passing game this year.  When the Bills do line up in 11 personnel, if defenses want to play two deep safeties to keep Josh from burning them over the top, they better hope their LBs can tackle because the underneath is going to be wide open and now we have some weapons who can truly exploit it.

 

I agree with this.  The Bills have definitely said "OK, you want to play 2 deep safeties and blanket the middle of the field, prepare to have us run on you or burn you underneath with guys who can gain YAC."

 

6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

3.  We have become a faster offense.  With the resigning and likely bigger role for McKenzie, the drafting of Cook, and Marquez Stevenson waiting in the wings, we should see a faster offense.  I hope we finally get to see some of Stevenson on offense this year.  He was buried on the depth chart last year, but with Sanders gone that bumps everyone up one spot on the depth chart.  Beane hasn't gone after one of the burner WRs in the draft so far.  That may be just because of how the draft fell to them, but there is also a possibility that the Bills think they already have their burner on the roster in Stevenson.  I think Crowder is also faster than Beasley and I see a career year for him this year with Josh slinging him the rock.  

 

I think Crowder deserves a good year.  I don't share the Stevenson enthusiasm.

 

6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

4.  With the return of Aaron Kromer I think we can expect an improvement in the running game.  The Bills had the #1 rushing attack in the NFL in 2015 and 2016 when Kromer was the O-line coach.  I don't think Buffalo will ever be a run first team as long as Josh is under center, but if we can become more effective in the run game that will pay huge dividends all around for the offense.  The Bills passed the ball 59.2% of the time last season, I expect that number to come down this season.

 

5.  This is related to the point above, an improved running game should also diminish the wear and tear on our franchise QB.  I think called QB runs except for short yardage situations will become few and far between.  Josh will still do Josh things and take off when he sees an opening, but I would be shocked if he is the Bills' leading rusher again this year.

 

I share this as a hope.  Beane certainly laid it out there as a belief that a decent run game was important to protecting Josh.

 

6 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

6.  This one is more of a guess on my part, but I think the next step in Josh's evolution is being able to completely change the play at the line of scrimmage based on the defensive look on any given play, ala Peyton Manning.  Dorsey is a former QB and I think he will trust Josh with more freedom on the field to make those calls than Daboll did.  We've all seen Josh can make any throw on the field, he is one of the best running QBs in the NFL, I think the next area we see him make a huge leap in is the mental aspect of the game.  This is year five for Josh and I think he is ready to take complete ownership of the offense.

 

According to Daboll Josh has had the authority to audible since his 2nd season.  So I'm not sure what additional freedom you're looking for.

 

 

 

 

[T master]

Dorsey has more than enough weapons to make this a #1 offense in the league that's for sure i feel it's gonna be a great year for the Bills & the city of Buffalo !! 

[Luka]

My hope is that the tight end room ends up being as good as it looks on paper. I think this actually plays into the uptempo offense more than it does running 12 personnel. Obviously they can but I think if it's Knox and Howard, in an uptempo situation you could see Knox or Howard in the slot. Gives Dorsey more felxability without having to substitute. I'm thinking we take advantage of mismatches more this year. Less cute play calls and more just outplaying the other team and exploiting weaknesses. 

[Inigo Montoya]

I'm excited to see the RBs more involved in the passing game, especially Cook who looks like he has a legit chance to make something big happen every time he touches the ball.   Those quick swing passes and screens always looked like low hanging fruit to me that the Bills offense under Daboll didn't take advantage of often enough.  

 

Run Diggs and Davis deep and clear out the underneath with two safeties deep and then exploit the hole in the defense.  I don't remember the last time a Bills RB took a dump off pass and took it down the field to the house.  Hopefully that changes this season.

[Comebackkid]

I think cook has the ability to be the difference maker in our offense.   there are atleast 3 things he can provide for the bills offense.   Starting with the complaint about the o-line.   now we actually have someone who should be effective running the screen game and can burn teams if they get to aggressive trying to get to josh.

We also have wydermye who was was used a lot as a blocker and does really well at this.   2nd cook has the speed and agility to get the the second level and before the holes close up which we didnt have before.   3rd cook can exploit coverage holes and act as a very good wr.   

 

I dont think we nec. run a lot more, but i do believe that when we do run we will be much more effective at it.   

[Draconator]

This was a great post @Inigo Montoya! Nothing more to add!

[Shaw66]

I like the original post, and I also like Hapless's critique.   It helps fine-tune Inigo's thoughts. 

 

Stevenson may actually see the field this year.  He took his rookie year to experience big-boy football, and he as much as anyone, could benefit from offensive changes designed to take advantage of speed.  I've been talking about what it will be like to get Cook and Shakir on the field, especially together, with all that speed coming at the defense from all over the field.   Well, Stevenson might be the guy who benefits the most by that change in offensive philosophy.  

 

Someone commented about hoping the Bills could score inside the 10.   Well, if Dorsey's doing his job, with this kind of speed and quickness in the lineup, he needs to take a page out of Reid's book.  There are a lot of wrinkles, including quick screens, shovel passes, and counter plays that have served the Chiefs really well.   Enter Kromer and Saffold.  

[PrimeTime101]

So I went out looking for a Ken Dorsey topic to share some questions in mind (Your welcome @Hapless Bills Fan  ) and I have these questions.

 

1. Josh Allen's performance...would one think that having Ken Dorsey at his side helped him a lot? If so how much?

 

2. Brings up the next question. Should Ken be upstairs or at field level for at least the first few games?

 

OP put out a great topic, thought I would add to it with these questions. 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

So I went out looking for a Ken Dorsey topic to share some questions in mind (Your welcome @Hapless Bills Fan  ) and I have these questions.

 

1. Josh Allen's performance...would one think that having Ken Dorsey at his side helped him a lot? If so how much?

 

2. Brings up the next question. Should Ken be upstairs or at field level for at least the first few games?

 

OP put out a great topic, thought I would add to it with these questions. 

 

 

Josh says Ken helped a lot, so yes?

 

This reminds me of the Daboll field-or-booth fiasco. If I remember correctly, Josh and Daboll weren't "communicating effectively" when he was on the sideline. So Daboll went to the booth. Ken Dorsey might be a more effective communicator during the game. I think we see him start on the sideline. He'll only move to the booth if he's having trouble seeing the field, I guess.

[PrimeTime101]

2 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Josh says Ken helped a lot, so yes?

 

This reminds me of the Daboll field-or-booth fiasco. If I remember correctly, Josh and Daboll weren't "communicating effectively" when he was on the sideline. So Daboll went to the booth. Ken Dorsey might be a more effective communicator during the game. I think we see him start on the sideline. He'll only move to the booth if he's having trouble seeing the field, I guess.

of course who is to say how good the communication is between the new QB coach and josh ya know?

just thought it would be an interesting question to present.

[GoBills808]

I’m very interested in seeing how they offset those 120+ QB rushes…doubt they’re just going to shift them to RB one for one. 
 

A lot of the QB designed stuff imo was utilized in lieu of coherent offensive gameflow management. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I’m very interested in seeing how they offset those 120+ QB rushes…doubt they’re just going to shift them to RB one for one. 
 

A lot of the QB designed stuff imo was utilized in lieu of coherent offensive gameflow management. 

Is that IMO or IMHO?

[Beck Water]

30 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

of course who is to say how good the communication is between the new QB coach and josh ya know?

just thought it would be an interesting question to present.

 

It seems pretty typical of most teams to have either the QB coach or the OC in the booth.

 

I imagine they'll do one or the other, but it seems possible that one reason they may have brought Matt Barkley back is for ensuring sideline communication, especially if Dorsey wants to move to the booth.

 

I could be wrong but I don't think I ever saw Trubisky sitting with Josh going over the photos on the Surface the way Barkley did all the time.

[Don Otreply]

The  HC, OC, QBC, OLC, and QB1 ,  all have one goal, and that is to communicate with each other and their charges, in a fashion that is productive. They all know this, and that is exactly what they will do, these guys are pros, they know full well what success looks like and the work that is needed to get there, they all know their place in the overall scheme of what needs to be done. With the current offensive fire power in place on this team, the weapons we have can and will line up from a multitude of spots in a multitude of offensive sets, so that opponents will not know for certain where the ball is going or who it’s going to. How would you guys like being the opposing DC and have to game plan for this offense? Not that appealing of a task is it… jmo.

[GoBills808]

39 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

Is that IMO or IMHO?

Well both😂😂

 

[John from Riverside]

I assume the first time we actually see it is training camp but I agree personnel moves def should tell us something.

[Steptide]

I'm interested to see how the offense gels this season. While daboll was super frustrating at times with his play calling, he was pretty good at moving the offense down the field. Hoping there's no hiccups with Dorsey

[BillsShredder83]

54 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I'm interested to see how the offense gels this season. While daboll was super frustrating at times with his play calling, he was pretty good at moving the offense down the field. Hoping there's no hiccups with Dorsey

I wish our schedule was back heavy instead of front heavy, like it is, for this reason (and tre). 

 

Thankfully dorsey and Josh aren't unfamiliar but they are on limited time to implement changes and dial in exactly who they are as an offense. Hoping for no hiccups, but I think it's unreasonable to expect pur offense to be clicking like they were in the two playoff games either