Can we talk about Tremaine Edmunds?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

44 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

It definelty wasn't a cake walk. After 13 games, the Bills were in a serious battle to make the playoffs. They played well down the stretch and controlled their own dynasty. It wasn't a cake walk though. 

Because they blew a couple of their easiest matchups and were bad in 1 score games.

[Shaw66]

39 minutes ago, NewEra said:

 

My main concerns heading into this season

Your saying this makes me realize I don't have concerns.  

 

When the Bills were a .500 team, I had concerns.  Would the QB improve, would someone step up at one position or another. 

 

I don't have concerns now.   That's not to say there aren't areas of relative strength or weakness, players who need to make the next step, etc.  

 

I don't have concerns now because the team is good enough to win the Super Bowl, and I don't have the ability to predict where things will go wrong that will cause them not to win it.   Those kind of concerns could happen at any position.  

 

I've stopped worrying about that stuff, not by choice or anything.  I just find I don't worry about it.   I'm just waiting for the games to begin.   When the season's over, I'll know what I could have worried about, but for now I'm worry-free.   It's a nice feeling. 

[newcam2012]

15 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Your saying this makes me realize I don't have concerns.  

 

When the Bills were a .500 team, I had concerns.  Would the QB improve, would someone step up at one position or another. 

 

I don't have concerns now.   That's not to say there aren't areas of relative strength or weakness, players who need to make the next step, etc.  

 

I don't have concerns now because the team is good enough to win the Super Bowl, and I don't have the ability to predict where things will go wrong that will cause them not to win it.   Those kind of concerns could happen at any position.  

 

I've stopped worrying about that stuff, not by choice or anything.  I just find I don't worry about it.   I'm just waiting for the games to begin.   When the season's over, I'll know what I could have worried about, but for now I'm worry-free.   It's a nice feeling. 

I get where you are going. Worry free is a great feeling. However, I think worry should be replaced with concerned or interested. Thus, I'm interested on how the Bills can get even better. I'm interested in improvements and upgrades that were and can be made. I'm concerned that the Bill's didn't improve xxx enough? This is what most fans do. Talk about off season moves, needs, etc...To ignore this based on being worried seems off base to me. 

[LeGOATski]

Locked On Bills latest episode all about Tremaine Edmunds is a good listen.

[RocCityRoller]

21 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Locked On Bills latest episode all about Tremaine Edmunds is a good listen.

 

Thanks. I thought this thread was about Tre Edmunds.... anything but the last few pages.

[BADOLBILZ]

21 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I'm looking at PFF and they have the Dolphins o-line as giving up the most pressures with 235.  If yolo used PFF rankings that's much lower than 125.  PFF had us ranked in the middle of the pack overall (17th) but I couldn't find the exact number of pressures/sacks allowed.  It's pry safe to say it's nowhere near dead last though like you claim.  The Bills had problems on the o-line last year in pass protection but I think you're overstating how bad they actually were.

 

 

And I "think" I am not overstating how bad they were.    They were a GLARING weakness on an otherwise dominant team.

 

Here is the NFL's own next Gen stats link with their take on pressure stats..........Bills with second most pressures allowed and the most hurries allowed in the NFL(by a lot).

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/advanced.htm

 

Do some non-NFL owned metric services have them ranked better?........ perhaps.........but my point has been that statistically they ranked VERY badly in pass pro.

 

On reflection though, I think that stat I quoted from one of yolo's re-tweets was from around the time of the Tampa game.   

 

Which makes sense,  because they were indisputably terrible until they started running Josh Allen 10x per game to compensate for the struggles in pass pro.   Though as I mentioned, when they did NOT rush 10+ time in the Panthers game he got assaulted in the pocket.  

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

22 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

It actually was a cakewalk. They had a couple let downs mostly due to weather because they weren’t a very good bad weather team. Then there’s the Jags game which was mostly an OL failure.

 

The Bills dominated their wins like very few teams in NFL history. 

 

 

They lost 6 games.

 

That's not the definition of a cakewalk.......it's a sign of inconsistency.

 

But yes, they had a huge point differential because they had a very easy schedule.    

 

They just played very poorly on one or both sides of the ball in 6 games..........most often on offense.......though the Tennessee, Indy and Tampa losses were more directly on the league's top ranked defense.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I get where you are going. Worry free is a great feeling. However, I think worry should be replaced with concerned or interested. Thus, I'm interested on how the Bills can get even better. I'm interested in improvements and upgrades that were and can be made. I'm concerned that I the Bill's didn't improve xxx enough? This is what most fans do. Talk about off season moves, needs, etc...To ignore this based on being worried seems off base to me. 

I hear what you're saying, but I think you missed my point.   My point was one of personality.   What you're saying is that you and I are different, which is what I was saying in my post.  I agree that the objective is continuous improvement, and I'm glad the Bills have a GM and a coach with the fierce competitiveness and drive to keep pursuing it.   I'm not like that; although I agree the team always can get better, my brain has little interest in figuring how to get better at backup guard.  If there's a serious hole at some starting position, fine, I'll think about it.  Backup guard, no. 

 

I don't know a lot about cars, so some people may argue with the comparison, but it's sort of like this:   If I'm driving a Kia, I want to figure out how to upgrade.   So, I get a Honda, and it's clearly better, but pretty soon I'm thinking about a Lexus.   So, I get a Lexus.  Now, you can tell me that a Mercedes is a better car than a Lexus, but at that point I'm just not all that interested.   Yes, maybe the Mercedes has feature or two, a comfort or two that the Lexus doesn't have, maybe it performs a smidgeon better than the Lexus, but differences like that have never been that appealing to me.   Would I like a better car?   Sure, but with a Lexus, I'm happy enough that I'll worry about other things.  

 

So, to bring it back to the Bills.  When Manuel was the QB, I was always thinking about what he needed to do better.   When it was Taylor, I was always thinking about what he needed to do better.   When it was Peterman, I was always thinking about buying him a plane ticket out of town.  But now that it's Allen, even though I know he can get better and I want him to get better, I spend pretty much no time thinking about what he needs to do to get better.   The Bills are thinking about it, and Allen is thinking about it, but to me it's kind of unknowable and it's a waste of my time to puzzle about it.   It's just how I think. 

 

So, when the conversation turns to backup offensive linemen, I can agree that like every position, depth is important, but there are no obvious or even semi-obvious choices in free agency who would have been better than what the Bills have and would be affordable.  There is no fifth-round draft pick who is obviously good enough to be a better backup as a rookie.   Given the talent that's out there, from where I sit, it's impossible for me to know which guys are the right guys to have on the bench.   All I can do is hope that Beane's obsessiveness, determination, and wisdom will help him figure that out.   I can't, and so I just don't bother spending my limited brain power on it. 

 

 

[Brand J]

19 hours ago, NewEra said:

I think Nick McCloud could emerge as competition for Dane Jackson. 

Apparently Nick McCloud is running with the safeties more these days. Not sure why because he tested with blazing speed and looked to have decent quickness.
Poyer had lots of praise for him recently though, said he reminded him of his younger self.

[RocCityRoller]

1 minute ago, JayBaller10 said:

Apparently Nick McCloud is running with the safeties more these days. Not sure why because he tested with blazing speed and looked to have decent quickness.
Poyer had lots of praise for him recently though, said he reminded him of his younger self.

@NewEra@JayBaller10

 

Count me in the Nick McCloud fanbase, or 'intrigued by' club. I really liked what he showed last pre-season.

Wrong thread to go in depth, but yeah some of us are really interested to see what he can do.

 

As for Edmunds, I feel like most of us have a pretty good feel for what he can and can't do in this defense, with what he is tasked with.

A lot of folks think it is not worthy of a big money second contract.

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Apparently Nick McCloud is running with the safeties more these days. Not sure why because he tested with blazing speed and looked to have decent quickness.
Poyer had lots of praise for him recently though, said he reminded him of his younger self.

👍🏻 I read what Poyer said. I was under the impression that he was doing a bunch of everything, working equally with corners and safeties.  They love their versatility.

[Doc Brown]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And I "think" I am not overstating how bad they were.    They were a GLARING weakness on an otherwise dominant team.

 

Here is the NFL's own next Gen stats link with their take on pressure stats..........Bills with second most pressures allowed and the most hurries allowed in the NFL(by a lot).

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2021/advanced.htm

 

Do some non-NFL owned metric services have them ranked better?........ perhaps.........but my point has been that statistically they ranked VERY badly in pass pro.

 

On reflection though, I think that stat I quoted from one of yolo's re-tweets was from around the time of the Tampa game.   

 

Which makes sense,  because they were indisputably terrible until they started running Josh Allen 10x per game to compensate for the struggles in pass pro.   Though as I mentioned, when they did NOT rush 10+ time in the Panthers game he got assaulted in the pocket.  

 

I'm not saying they weren't bad but I was just questioning that stat you were using claiming they were dead last because I hadn't seen it before.  Allen's ability to elude pressure did hide a glaring weakness on this team as it's pretty amazing we finished 24th in pressure % per drop back (according to next Gen stats you linked) but somehow finished 2nd in sacks allowed. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Doc Brown

[gr8billsfan]

On 4/26/2022 at 5:51 AM, Yantha said:

Linebacker is a need.  But just how BIG of a need remains to be seen and I am guessing that most would agree that Tremaine is at the center of that discussion.  So?  A few questions from me to you.

 

What happened to Tremaine?  

Why hasn't he really held up to his first round grade?

Can he rebound?  What are the chances?  Will money motivate him as he finishes up his current contract?

Any insights on what Beane and the Bills brass think about Tremaine and his future in Buffalo?

Could Tremaine be used as trade bait on draft day?  Or before?

This draft is fairly deep in LB talent, even on day 3.  Should we move on or put our faith in Tremaine?

Sure he hasn’t lived up to the insane hype he got, but remember he’s young. This is a year for him to put on a show. Relax everyone. 

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I hear what you're saying, but I think you missed my point.   My point was one of personality.   What you're saying is that you and I are different, which is what I was saying in my post.  I agree that the objective is continuous improvement, and I'm glad the Bills have a GM and a coach with the fierce competitiveness and drive to keep pursuing it.   I'm not like that; although I agree the team always can get better, my brain has little interest in figuring how to get better at backup guard.  If there's a serious hole at some starting position, fine, I'll think about it.  Backup guard, no. 

 

I don't know a lot about cars, so some people may argue with the comparison, but it's sort of like this:   If I'm driving a Kia, I want to figure out how to upgrade.   So, I get a Honda, and it's clearly better, but pretty soon I'm thinking about a Lexus.   So, I get a Lexus.  Now, you can tell me that a Mercedes is a better car than a Lexus, but at that point I'm just not all that interested.   Yes, maybe the Mercedes has feature or two, a comfort or two that the Lexus doesn't have, maybe it performs a smidgeon better than the Lexus, but differences like that have never been that appealing to me.   Would I like a better car?   Sure, but with a Lexus, I'm happy enough that I'll worry about other things.  

 

So, to bring it back to the Bills.  When Manuel was the QB, I was always thinking about what he needed to do better.   When it was Taylor, I was always thinking about what he needed to do better.   When it was Peterman, I was always thinking about buying him a plane ticket out of town.  But now that it's Allen, even though I know he can get better and I want him to get better, I spend pretty much no time thinking about what he needs to do to get better.   The Bills are thinking about it, and Allen is thinking about it, but to me it's kind of unknowable and it's a waste of my time to puzzle about it.   It's just how I think. 

 

So, when the conversation turns to backup offensive linemen, I can agree that like every position, depth is important, but there are no obvious or even semi-obvious choices in free agency who would have been better than what the Bills have and would be affordable.  There is no fifth-round draft pick who is obviously good enough to be a better backup as a rookie.   Given the talent that's out there, from where I sit, it's impossible for me to know which guys are the right guys to have on the bench.   All I can do is hope that Beane's obsessiveness, determination, and wisdom will help him figure that out.   I can't, and so I just don't bother spending my limited brain power on it. 

 

 

I guess it boils down to everyone's perspective, time, and personality. Some fans love to analyze every aspect of the team vs some just watch the games on game day. To each it's own. 

45 minutes ago, gr8billsfan said:

Sure he hasn’t lived up to the insane hype he got, but remember he’s young. This is a year for him to put on a show. Relax everyone. 

I'll be waiting for the show...

[HappyDays]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

I recommend rewatching the Chiefs game. Spencer Brown was awful… Allen did a lot to mask his bad play throughout the game.

 

Well let's see what Spencer Brown looks like when he isn't a raw rookie from a small school, after taking a year off from playing football. He was never even supposed to play last year. I think he hit the rookie wall hard, which isn't surprising, and was completely gassed by the divisional round. Every team in the league is relying on some of their young players to take a step. It's a normal part of roster building.

[HappyDays]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Sure… but some better competition brought in for a dude that was as bad as he was last season would’ve been ideal.

 

Sure, and having top 10 players at every position on the field would be ideal. But that's not how roster building works. You use the resources available to you to build the best possible team which means you have to make a few sacrifices at certain positions. Every team has a hole somewhere. RT isn't a premium position. We have a promising 2nd year player with high upside and a decent veteran. Ideal, no, but it's satisfactory for a less important position. And if that situation is what you can point to as the biggest weakness on the roster that's a sign that the overall roster is in really good shape.

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by HappyDays

[HappyDays]

28 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Imagine scraping the 8 man defensive line rotation and using those funds on better offensive linemen… but yes I know, roster building.😉

 

Every defensive line rotates. Offensive lines don't. The 2nd string DT and DE is more important than any other 2nd stringer on the team because they aren't just backups, they are rotational starters. So yes of course we spent money on DL depth this offseason. We lost most of our DL starters from last year. On the OL we only lost Williams. Stop looking at roster building in a vacuum.

 

30 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What decent veteran? 

 

Quessenberry. He is a decent backup option if Spencer Brown doesn't progress.

[Doc Brown]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

Quessenberry. He is a decent backup option if Spencer Brown doesn't progress.

Not really.  All I see our two potential RT's that struggled in pass protection last year.  Brown has the physical ability to make a significant leap and hopefully Kromer helps him make that leap.  RT remains my number one concern on the offense this year though.

[mead107]

Trade him

 

[SDS]

After reviewing the last few pages, there’s neither any specific talk about Edmunds, nor even really any general talk about him.

 

There’s really no reason to keep this open as a generic football discussion thread. So I’m gonna go ahead and close it. If anyone feels they wanna carry-on the conversation that they were having, just make a new topic with the appropriate title so we all know what the discussion is about. Thanks.