Name some good outside cornerbacks with sub 30 inch arms.

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

Should wingspan also be considered in this case? If McDuffie has a wider chest/shoulders it would increase his wingspan.

Not sure, but I suppose it could be.  I haven’t looked into it

[PrimeTime101]

8 hours ago, NewEra said:

I’ve been searching and I’m coming up blank.  There are some good slot corners, but I don’t know of any outside guys.  If you know of any, list them.  Please and thanks.  
 

There were 2 corners drafted with sub 30 inch arms last year.  Elijah Molden and Avery Williams.  Both slots.  

4 DB prospects in the 2020 draft.  Some may be safeties.  Don’t think any are in the nfl

 

i think there were 2 in 2019 draft-  neither of which are in the nfl I don’t think.  

6 DBs in the 2018 draft. A few of them are safeties, including Jordan Whitehad.  Donte Jackson was the only first rd pick in 2018-2021.  He’s just been average. I wouldn’t consider him good. 
 

McDuffie looking less and less like a stud based on math.  

For me... and maybe only me... I feel like this is just looking at one statistic and ignoring the rest... Kind of like looking at accuracy but ignoring the rest. Steve tasker was always one of the if not THE smallest players on the field.. but he played big game cause of all the other things he could do really well. While this may be a bad example lets look at another. Josh Allen had horrible completion percentage coming into the NFL BUT he hand all the other tangibles to be a great QB. 

 

For me this is nothing more then paying attention to one stat... thats why you got my rolly eyes...

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Shake_My_Head said:

Here's a really neat source of historic combine mesurables data that's sortable by position:

 

https://nflcombineresults.com/nflcombinedata_expanded.php?year=all&pos=CB&college=

 

McDuffie's 29.75" arms appear to be a real liability based on all the other CBs drafted over time.   Outside of Winfield (29.75"), Arron Glenn (30.0"), Cam Sutton (30.0"), Will Allen (30.0") or even LEODIS F'n MCKELVIN! (30.125") I don't recognize many standout players with shorter arms, let alone first round picks.

Great find….thank you.  Added that to my bookmarks.  So there’s one good cb in the last 34 years that had arms shorter than 30 inches.  
 

not saying McDuffie won’t be good. I like his tape.  He looks like a helluva player.  So did Donte Jackson when the panthers took him in rd 1.  If he’s out pick, I’m sure we’ll be getting a solid player that will start opposite Tre for a year or two, but may just end up replacing Taron in the slot. If money gets tight.  

[Milanos Milano]

8 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Great post, but we can't let little things like that stop us from drafting a first round defensive back. I mean.....forget Josh Allen. He is already good. Why waste picks on blockers and/or receivers?

We have history to fall back on. Donte Whitner (the 2nd ranked safety in 2006) had arms that were 30.63 inches. I lost count of the games that he won for the Bills! Levy and Jauron didn't want desperately needed help on both lines. Of course not, as long as there was an undersized defensive back to grab in round 1 and pay 36 million dollars to. 

Whifner? Hard pass! 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

For me... and maybe only me... I feel like this is just looking at one statistic and ignoring the rest... Kind of like looking at accuracy but ignoring the rest. Steve tasker was always one of the if not THE smallest players on the field.. but he played big game cause of all the other things he could do really well. While this may be a bad example lets look at another. Josh Allen had horrible completion percentage coming into the NFL BUT he hand all the other tangibles to be a great QB. 

 

For me this is nothing more then paying attention to one stat... thats why you got my rolly eyes...

Sure, i may be doing that.  
 

there’s been 1 good outside corner in the last 34 years that had arms shorter than 30 inches. ONE.  We are in need of an outside corner.  So let’s draft a guy we hope is the second good corner…..out of thousands.  

I’m not saying he’s not good.  I like the player… but this is more than just a trend.  Like @GunnerBill says…..he’s best in the slot and his upside is lacking.  @ pick 25, we’re looking for upside.  Not someone to fill a need

[Motorin']

Some people need to Google "correlation does not imply causation."

 

 

[Shake_My_Head]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sure, i may be doing that.  
 

there’s been 1 good outside corner in the last 34 years that had arms shorter than 30 inches. ONE.  We are in need of an outside corner.  So let’s draft a guy we hope is the second good corner…..out of thousands.  

I’m not saying he’s not good.  I like the player… but this is more than just a trend.  Like @GunnerBill says…..he’s best in the slot and his upside is lacking.  @ pick 25, we’re looking for upside.  Not someone to fill a need

 

Thinking about it, McDuffie seems like another in a long line of pre-draft "stalking horses" who get a lot of love early on as top-15 picks, but ultimately slide down and into round two.   

 

Meanwhile, we're now starting to pick up the late, late buzz about guys like Lewis Cine, Quay Walker and Logan Hall and who're likely to rise up to round one and where eveybody will go "Whoa! Didn't see that!" when they get picked Thursday night.  

 

So much smoke, very little light--just like every year.

[PrimeTime101]

26 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sure, i may be doing that.  
 

there’s been 1 good outside corner in the last 34 years that had arms shorter than 30 inches. ONE.  We are in need of an outside corner.  So let’s draft a guy we hope is the second good corner…..out of thousands.  

I’m not saying he’s not good.  I like the player… but this is more than just a trend.  Like @GunnerBill says…..he’s best in the slot and his upside is lacking.  @ pick 25, we’re looking for upside.  Not someone to fill a need

back in 2017 this article came out http://seahawksdraftblog.com/the-2017-cornerback-class-has-a-wingspan-problem and this was talking about 32 inch arm length.. note... we picked a pro bowler out of this draft with just over 32 inches. So the question to be asked... is there any data any where that shows 1 player with sub 30 inches that are good in the nfl? so i did some research myself. 

 

Opinionated but these are 2 top 20 CB's in the league within half an inch.

Byron Murphy top 20 cb with 30 1/8 arm

Casey Hayward top 20 cb 30.25

 

there was a guy named Mighty Mouse Mark McMillian who was only 5'7 small arms (they did not measure his arms but they were small lol) and had a fine career at CB.  a source i do not trust said his arms were 29 inches.  in an 8 year span he had 23-24 INT's. 

 

That being said... this is an interesting conversation to be had and i am removing my rolly eyes and adding a thumbs up.

 

EDITED

(movie Hoosiers) "did not know they grew them so small down on the farm"~

Half inch make or break? i dont know man...

 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by PrimeTime101

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

back in 2017 this article came out http://seahawksdraftblog.com/the-2017-cornerback-class-has-a-wingspan-problem and this was talking about 32 inch arm length.. note... we picked a pro bowler out of this draft with just over 32 inches. So the question to be asked... is there any data any where that shows 1 player with sub 30 inches that are good in the nfl? so i did some research myself. 

 

Opinionated but these are 2 top 20 CB's in the league within half an inch.

Byron Murphy top 20 cb with 30 1/8 arm

Casey Hayward top 20 cb 30.25

 

there was a guy named Mighty Mouse Mark McMillian who was only 5'7 small arms (they did not measure his arms but they were small lol) and had a fine career at CB.  a source i do not trust said his arms were 29 inches.  in an 8 year span he had 23-24 INT's. 

 

That being said... this is an interesting conversation to be had and i am removing my rolly eyes and adding a thumbs up.

 

EDITED

(movie Hoosiers) "did not know they grew them so small down on the farm"~

Half inch make or break? i dont know man...

 

 

 

 

Nice info, thanks for posting.  
 

that’s all we can do right now is research and watch tape.  The research I’ve done says no to McDuffie @ 25.  Watching the highlights…..he’s a yes @ 25.  But many highlights say yes.  I’m tempted to watch game tape on him….but not emoted enough to do so. I’ll trust the guys I know know their **** 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, PrimeTime101 said:

 

Opinionated but these are 2 top 20 CB's in the league within half an inch.

Byron Murphy top 20 cb with 30 1/8 arm

Casey Hayward top 20 cb 30.25

 

 

Hayward is as close as you come to making the point, he had a couple of years with the Chargers where he was a legit #1 outside corner. But even he started in the league in Green Bay as a nickel corner. He didn't become a starting outside corner until year 6, his second season on his second team. Murphy is a decent player, but while he 'starts' outside in base when the Cardinals go to nickel he plays the slot and Borders comes in on the outside. Murphy played over 100 more snaps in the slot in 2021 than he did outside. 

 

I would argue both of those actually prove my point. That you can have shorter arms and be a good NFL corner, but that generally means playing at nickel or being a lower ceiling guy outside. 

 

I think Hayward is like the high end projection for McDuffie. He was a round 2 pick. My question marks are whether he really represents 1st round value?

[jwhit34]

I don't think vertical leap makes up for arm length. Sure, you can jump higher, but think about most coverage situations. If the QB is delivering the ball on time and on target the receiver isn't jumping up to catch it. And if you're a shorter CB with short arms, the WR is going to ostensibly be in stride whereas the short CB with short arms has to jump up to make a play. 

 

I think some of the measurables and reliance on combine data can be overblown (the player still has to be able to play). However, they are data points that if put in proper context can be instructive for GMs and coaches when trying to determine whether a player can successfully make the transition from college to pro. 

 

You can look at almost any position and if a player is undersized they probably need to possess some other outstanding trait to make up for the deficiency. Tyreek Hill is probably the poster child for that - his small stature is offset by blazing speed. 

[Andrew Son]

I pray teams care about this and he falls to the Bills.

 

With the trend toward smaller/quicker WR's I don't care so much about length.  This kid can play.

[Mat68]

Idk.  If you look at Beanes track record in rd 1 I dont see many Cbs making the cut this year.  Buffalo is significantly higher on Dane Jackson than most humans on the internet.  At this point I would be surprised if they go Cb in rd 1.

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Darrell Greene had a twenty year hall of fame career and was only 5' 9".  I couldn't find his exact arm length but did find a lot of information about how "experts" in the NFL doubted his ability to play in the league because of his size.  His speed, smarts and toughness was all that really mattered.  If the Bills can walk away with a similar player and results, I'll take that any day.

[Andrew Son]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Idk.  If you look at Beanes track record in rd 1 I dont see many Cbs making the cut this year.  Buffalo is significantly higher on Dane Jackson than most humans on the internet.  At this point I would be surprised if they go Cb in rd 1.

Beane wasn't planning on taking back to back D ends last year but that's how it played out with his board.

 

If a DB is his highest rated player, he'll take him- regardless of his thoughts on Dane Jackson.

[Dr. Who]

9 hours ago, NewEra said:

I’ve been searching and I’m coming up blank.  There are some good slot corners, but I don’t know of any outside guys.  If you know of any, list them.  Please and thanks.  
 

There were 2 corners drafted with sub 30 inch arms last year.  Elijah Molden and Avery Williams.  Both slots.  

4 DB prospects in the 2020 draft.  Some may be safeties.  Don’t think any are in the nfl

 

i think there were 2 in 2019 draft-  neither of which are in the nfl I don’t think.  

6 DBs in the 2018 draft. A few of them are safeties, including Jordan Whitehad.  Donte Jackson was the only first rd pick in 2018-2021.  He’s just been average. I wouldn’t consider him good. 
 

McDuffie looking less and less like a stud based on math.  
 

 

 

He might be an outlier, but I don't think the Bills draft him. 

[NewEra]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

He might be an outlier, but I don't think the Bills draft him. 

Agreed.  I think they’re going to trade up for Kyle Hamilton 😉 😉 

[PrimeTime101]

20 minutes ago, jwhit34 said:

I don't think vertical leap makes up for arm length. Sure, you can jump higher, but think about most coverage situations. If the QB is delivering the ball on time and on target the receiver isn't jumping up to catch it. And if you're a shorter CB with short arms, the WR is going to ostensibly be in stride whereas the short CB with short arms has to jump up to make a play. 

 

I think some of the measurables and reliance on combine data can be overblown (the player still has to be able to play). However, they are data points that if put in proper context can be instructive for GMs and coaches when trying to determine whether a player can successfully make the transition from college to pro. 

 

You can look at almost any position and if a player is undersized they probably need to possess some other outstanding trait to make up for the deficiency. Tyreek Hill is probably the poster child for that - his small stature is offset by blazing speed. 

I stopped reading the second you said that..

8 seconds look how high the dude jumped.  He jumped so high his legs from his knee to feet went horizontal with the field. for ONE SECOND... dont try and tell me Vertical leap does not make up for arm length.. 

 

 

HORRIBLE Narrative This is a ball that was about to hit a player on time right place at the players helmet and he jumped up and stole it... 

 

ever hear of the 50/50 ball? 

Edited April 26, 2022 by PrimeTime101

[Mat68]

2 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

Beane wasn't planning on taking back to back D ends last year but that's how it played out with his board.

 

If a DB is his highest rated player, he'll take him- regardless of his thoughts on Dane Jackson.

Right, but im talking Rd 1.  There is not a Gregory Rousseau type at Cb imo.  Possibly Booth but injuries.  Elam idk either.  The guys available seem to be 2nd rd types that we are pushing up because we want a cb.  I believe Beane when he says he is comfortable with Jackson, White and Johnson.  That means he wont reach on a guy he has a lower grade. I thought possibly Woolen because how freaky he is but he is significantly older than Buffalo has drafted. 

[Rico]

I immediately thought of Jason Sehorn, but his were 31”.