Deebo Samuel tells 49ers not to offer extension because he wants to be traded

[BADOLBILZ]

29 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

People talking about YAC just don't get it. The routes ran by the Bills WR were not designed with YAC in mind. Often times they were comebacks, sideline routes that took the receivers out of bounds on deep overs or scramble drill plays. The lack of YAC was a result of the routes they ran not due to issues with the receivers themselves. Won't make a difference who the WRs are if they run the same routes.

 

Oh I understand the Bills offense.

 

But the players they have had really aren't cut out to be YAC guys either.

 

They've focused on route runners and for a while they really didn't want Allen throwing the ball over the middle that much.

 

As you said......lot's of comebacks and sideline routes that really helped keep Allen out of trouble as he developed.

 

That approach worked but also pummeled the receiving corps in 2020........all the passes caught flat footed,  followed by body slams from opposing DB's took a toll on the Bills WR corps in 2020.

 

Last season,  their passing attack was much less effective.

 

Teams took advantage of the Bills not having YAC talent..........prime example was the Jaguars game where they were DYING for someone to catch a short pass and do something with it and found no takers.

 

As a result Allen's yards per pass attempt fell from a very good 7.9 in 2020 to a not-good,  Tyrod-Taylor-esque 6.8 in 2021.   

 

You see.......there is a lot of space between "not having YAC in mind" and being the absolute worst YAC team in the NFL.

 

It's inexcusable when you have a QB who can make throws that are impossible for all but 2-3 other QB's. 

 

I think we can all agree that any limitations that they have tried to work around should no longer apply to Josh Allen.

 

He seemed to find his deep ball command late last year........he worked hard on accuracy on in-breaking routes........he can be trusted to use all parts of the field and throw with enough command to lead receivers safely and actually "design plays with YAC in mind".  

 

It's time to integrate some YAC talent into the equation that can do that.

 

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yeah the Niners would first have to see Davis as the less risky but still high ceiling WR option for their veteran contending team and young QB.    As opposed to whomever is left at pick 10.

 

And also that Deebo would prefer not to go to another Shanahan type system.......or a losing organization with a young, unproven QB situation.

 

We really don't know what's going on there because it doesn't make a lot of sense that he wouldn't just sign back with SF if they promised not to use him like a RB the way they did in the second half of 2021.

 

If he were willing to play out his deal elsewhere and still contend for a SB.........playing with Josh Allen would be appealing.

 

It will be very interesting to see if guys like Deebo, AJ Brown and McClauren can leverage their dissatisfaction into new deals or if teams draw the line on these 3 year vets.

Yeah it would be appealing but if I’m him I want to get paid and some gtd money now. He’s injury prone as it is.  One bad injury this year could crush his value.  Get it while you can.  
 

and I don’t see any situation where the niners would prefer Gabe who has 2 years left on his contract vs a top 10 pick that has 5 years of control.  By the time Davis gets needs to get paid, Bosa will be making 35M per year.  

41 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I would think that YAC are more important for offenses with weaker armed QBs, that have a harder time pushing the ball down field...

 

Perhaps, with Allen’s ability to push the ball downfield, and his escape ability from the pass rush, maybe the thinking with Daboll’s offense was that YAC becomes less important...just a thought...

It’s for the underneath routes given to us by opponents bracketing Diggs or playing cover 2 shell.  We need guys that can catch the ball and make someone miss or break a tackle.  

[machine gun kelly]

Deebo is not coming here.  God, every player who has talent, someone always writes a thread, “well let’s bring him in”.  We don’t even have enough $ for our draft picks along with an emergency fund for the season even if we lump people together to trade up.

 

Its not happening so why discuss it.  BTW, 30 other teams fans are also discussing it as well.  SF is probably not moving on from him anyway just like Metcalf in Seattle.  Why would Shanahan move on vs. calming down the relationship?  They were one game away from the SB after two years earlier being in the SB.

[4merper4mer]

21 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Deebo is not coming here.  God, every player who has talent, someone always writes a thread, “well let’s bring him in”.  We don’t even have enough $ for our draft picks along with an emergency fund for the season even if we lump people together to trade up.

 

Its not happening so why discuss it.  BTW, 30 other teams fans are also discussing it as well.  SF is probably not moving on from him anyway just like Metcalf in Seattle.  Why would Shanahan move on vs. calming down the relationship?  They were one game away from the SB after two years earlier being in the SB.

But what if we start by trading/cutting Edmunds?  It seems to factor in just about everywhere.  It must solve the Debo problem somehow.  Keep thinking.

[TBBills]

7 hours ago, Southern_Bills said:

 

We will have to agree to disagree, that simple. 

 

Though I will tell you, the entire time I listen to your response I can imagine you speaking down to an employee like they are just a tool to build an empire with.

Me, that's your problem I guess.

[machine gun kelly]

26 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

But what if we start by trading/cutting Edmunds?  It seems to factor in just about everywhere.  It must solve the Debo problem somehow.  Keep thinking.

Why not draft a WR in the second round?  That’s where they found Samuel.  Don’t forget Diggs and Milano were found in the 5th round.  I trust Beane’s eyes as well as his scouting staff.

[Mr. WEO]

22 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Perhaps his agents pointed out the extra wear and tear being put on him which made him rethink things in that regard because he never considered that point. 

 

lol, come on....

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

Why not draft a WR in the second round?  That’s where they found Samuel.  Don’t forget Diggs and Milano were found in the 5th round.  I trust Beane’s eyes as well as his scouting staff.

I was being sarcastic.  Deebo is a good player that makes no sense for 5he Bills.  If Dak Prescott demanded a trade there would be a thread….as you pointed out.

[machine gun kelly]

NP 4 squared.  It’s hard sometimes on these threads to know when someone is sincere and when they are kidding.

 

Theres no doubt Samuel is a very good player.  He wants a big contract and we just don’t have the resources.  If anything I believe we need to balance out cheap labor in high paying positions.  That’s why I’m confident we will go CB, and then WR.  After who knows as it just depends on the talent available when we get to the third and beyond.

[Chicken Boo]

21 hours ago, BRH said:

The Jets’ interest in Deebo and the Dolphins’ trade for Hill make me think their GMs must actually think Josh is only good because he has Diggs. 

 

The Jets just drafted Zach Wilson last year.  Why wouldn't they want to surround him with the best talent that they an acquire? 

 

And this is it for Tua.  He either shows something or Miami is in a great position to replace him next season.  Pretty sure that's where Brady will be in 2023, actually.

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Oh I understand the Bills offense.

 

But the players they have had really aren't cut out to be YAC guys either.

 

They've focused on route runners and for a while they really didn't want Allen throwing the ball over the middle that much.

 

As you said......lot's of comebacks and sideline routes that really helped keep Allen out of trouble as he developed.

 

That approach worked but also pummeled the receiving corps in 2020........all the passes caught flat footed,  followed by body slams from opposing DB's took a toll on the Bills WR corps in 2020.

 

Last season,  their passing attack was much less effective.

 

Teams took advantage of the Bills not having YAC talent..........prime example was the Jaguars game where they were DYING for someone to catch a short pass and do something with it and found no takers.

 

As a result Allen's yards per pass attempt fell from a very good 7.9 in 2020 to a not-good,  Tyrod-Taylor-esque 6.8 in 2021.   

 

You see.......there is a lot of space between "not having YAC in mind" and being the absolute worst YAC team in the NFL.

 

It's inexcusable when you have a QB who can make throws that are impossible for all but 2-3 other QB's. 

 

I think we can all agree that any limitations that they have tried to work around should no longer apply to Josh Allen.

 

He seemed to find his deep ball command late last year........he worked hard on accuracy on in-breaking routes........he can be trusted to use all parts of the field and throw with enough command to lead receivers safely and actually "design plays with YAC in mind".  

 

It's time to integrate some YAC talent into the equation that can do that.

 

 

Sorry you’re wrong.  Diggs is a YAC guy, Davis showed he can be too, and so is McKenzie.  The poster you are replying too is correct.  YAC is as much scheme and routes called as it is players talent.  
 

And the route designs are often not called with YAC in my mind as they are at getting to an open spot.  This is also greatly impacted by Josh Allens improvisation where the receivers break off routes and focus getting to a spot, comebacks, angles towards the sidelines, etc to give Josh a clean target on the scramble.  
 

Chiefs on the other hand run a ton of quick slant routes specifically designed for YAC which is why Mahomes leads the league in yards passing on passes at or behind the LOS by a wide margin.  And Josh Allen is actually 3rd on that list too.

 

 

[Captain Hindsight]

22 hours ago, BRH said:

The Jets’ interest in Deebo and the Dolphins’ trade for Hill make me think their GMs must actually think Josh is only good because he has Diggs. 

Or he just recognizes his roster sucks

 

 

11 hours ago, benderbender said:

I hope they do. It is my genuine wish that both dysfunctional front offices continue to make as many terrible choices as humanly possible. Unfortunately, we can't count on them having a drought as painfully long as ours. We really showed the laws of probability what for with those 17 years. 

Jets are well on their way to getting to 17 years

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Sorry you’re wrong.  Diggs is a YAC guy, Davis showed he can be too, and so is McKenzie.  The poster you are replying too is correct.  YAC is as much scheme and routes called as it is players talent.  
 

And the route designs are often not called with YAC in my mind as they are at getting to an open spot.  This is also greatly impacted by Josh Allens improvisation where the receivers break off routes and focus getting to a spot, comebacks, angles towards the sidelines, etc to give Josh a clean target on the scramble.  
 

Chiefs on the other hand run a ton of quick slant routes specifically designed for YAC which is why Mahomes leads the league in yards passing on passes at or behind the LOS by a wide margin.  And Josh Allen is actually 3rd on that list too.

 

 

 

 

No, I'm 100% correct.

 

The Chiefs have prioritized speed because of their style of offense and their "day 1" confidence in Mahomes making accurate throws.

 

The Bills play a different style and the offense was originally designed to prevent Allen from making mistakes.

 

Last year their lack of YAC talent burned them.

 

As I said at the time.........sacrificing speed for Emmanuel Sanders was a mistake.

 

They didn't use it a lot but John Brown had a few great WR screen plays in key moments.......game breakers versus the Ravens and Seahawks........it can be part of the Bills offense but it won't be Stef Diggs or Gabe Davis doing it..........that's not their game.

[BarleyNY]

5 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

But what if we start by trading/cutting Edmunds?  It seems to factor in just about everywhere.  It must solve the Debo problem somehow.  Keep thinking.

Edmunds is playing this year on his fully guaranteed 5th year option.  We still would have to pay him if we cut him. 

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Edmunds is playing this year on his fully guaranteed 5th year option.  We still would have to pay him if we cut him. 

But he is traded or cut 4 billion times a day on this site.  Why are you picking on me?

[Coach Tuesday]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Sorry you’re wrong.  Diggs is a YAC guy, Davis showed he can be too, and so is McKenzie.  The poster you are replying too is correct.  YAC is as much scheme and routes called as it is players talent.  
 

And the route designs are often not called with YAC in my mind as they are at getting to an open spot.  This is also greatly impacted by Josh Allens improvisation where the receivers break off routes and focus getting to a spot, comebacks, angles towards the sidelines, etc to give Josh a clean target on the scramble.  
 

Chiefs on the other hand run a ton of quick slant routes specifically designed for YAC which is why Mahomes leads the league in yards passing on passes at or behind the LOS by a wide margin.  And Josh Allen is actually 3rd on that list too.

 

 

This isn’t right though.  Beane himself was transparent in his season-ending presser about the need to add a YAC monster.  He didn’t mention changing the scheme.  The only true YAC guys they had last year were Beasley and McKinzie, and Beas seemed focused on self-preservation (on the field, at least). No idea why you think Davis showed YAC abilities - I don’t think I’ve ever seen him run past a guy with the ball in his hands or break a tackle.  That’s just not his game.

[NewEra]

57 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This isn’t right though.  Beane himself was transparent in his season-ending presser about the need to add a YAC monster.  He didn’t mention changing the scheme.  The only true YAC guys they had last year were Beasley and McKinzie, and Beas seemed focused on self-preservation (on the field, at least). No idea why you think Davis showed YAC abilities - I don’t think I’ve ever seen him run past a guy with the ball in his hands or break a tackle.  That’s just not his game.

Agreed that Davis is NOT a rac guy.  Not even close.  Diggs is though.  He’ll sometimes take a dive to avoid the inevitable, but he consistently gets RAC if the opportunity presents itself.  He’s just not going to force it. 
 

but I agree, we need a more dangerous rac guy in the rotation.  Sanders’ rac was 💩.  As is Davis.  Beasley usually did enough to get the first but his body was doing him no favors. Mckenzie on really got good inaction in a handful of games.  Skyy Moore would be such a great fit in rd 2….but I think we’ll have to trade up for him.  If we go CB rd 1- moore or Watson would be a nice add in a trade up in rd 2.
 

Singletary is actually pretty good in that regard imo.  He may not have speed, but rac is predicated on make you miss ability and broken tackles more than pure speed imo.  Or course it would be nice to have a back with both….but the price is likely too high for one of those.  Maybe Cook in rd 3.  

Edited April 25, 2022 by NewEra

[Big Turk]

12 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This isn’t right though.  Beane himself was transparent in his season-ending presser about the need to add a YAC monster.  He didn’t mention changing the scheme.  The only true YAC guys they had last year were Beasley and McKinzie, and Beas seemed focused on self-preservation (on the field, at least). No idea why you think Davis showed YAC abilities - I don’t think I’ve ever seen him run past a guy with the ball in his hands or break a tackle.  That’s just not his game.

 

How many throws do you see to WR's where it basically leads them out of bounds?  I'd say probably 1/4-1/3 of all Allen's completions were those type of throws, either on deep overs or scramble drills where he throws it to them near the sideline, or when the receivers are stopped facing Allen.  How do you legitimately expect to get YAC from those throws? Of course there is some opportunity, but the massive disparity in YAC isn't from the Bills WR's not being capable of it, it's from the types of throws they are catching. 

 

Far and away, the Bills threw more of those types of throws than any other teams I watched.  There was usually a large disparity between the number of throws the Bills had like that versus the number of throws their opponents had like that during most games.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Big Turk

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This isn’t right though.  Beane himself was transparent in his season-ending presser about the need to add a YAC monster.  He didn’t mention changing the scheme.  The only true YAC guys they had last year were Beasley and McKinzie, and Beas seemed focused on self-preservation (on the field, at least). No idea why you think Davis showed YAC abilities - I don’t think I’ve ever seen him run past a guy with the ball in his hands or break a tackle.  That’s just not his game.

Watch Davis highlights, you’ll see it.  
 

And Diggs too.  
 

I’m not saying we can’t use another guy who has YAC ability, I was disagreeing it’s all related to personnel.  Go watch a Josh Allen highlight reel and you will see what I am talking about in terms of the routes run and extension of plays where it’s not keying in on YAC.  
 

It’s not like our guys are catching passes frequently in spots to get YAC and then just not getting the yards. 

[syhuang]

22 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Bills get one season of a PROVEN star player in his walk year who flips the narrative about their league worst YAC ability.   

 

Case in point........Stef Diggs had 3.2 YAC/R last season........Deebo had 10 YAC/R.

 

 

While it has been discussed Bills' worst YAC has something to do with offense design, it's also important to remember 49ers' play design contributes to Deebo's wonderful YAC stat.

 

Deebo definitely is shifty, he plays like a RB and is used as a RB often. 49ers' offense often calls WR screens for Deebo and let him gain yards like a RB. I don't recall Bills called that many WR screens, definitely in much lower rate than 49ers and Deebo. Many of Deebo's YAC comes from WR screens. If you check his game logs, you can easily find plays like below:

 

-------------------

1st & 10 at SF 34

(0:33 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Garoppolo pass short left to B.Aiyuk to SF 32 for -2 yards. Lateral to D.Samuel pushed ob at SF 42 for 10 yards (J.Ramsey). 12-YAC

-------------------

2nd & 10 at SF 26

(1:45 - 2nd) (Shotgun) T.Lance pass short left to D.Samuel to SF 27 for 1 yard (D.King; J.Greenard). Caught SF 19. 8-YAC

-------------------

(9:04 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Garoppolo pass short left to D.Samuel to IND 16 for no gain (B.Okereke). Caught at IND 20. 4-YAC

-------------------

2nd & 2 at SEA 49

(12:03 - 1st) (Shotgun) J.Garoppolo pass short left to D.Samuel to SEA 28 for 21 yards (D.Reed). PENALTY on SF-T.Sherfield, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 44. Caught at SF 49. 23-YAC

-------------------

(13:01 - 3rd) 10-J.Garoppolo at QB. (Shotgun) J.Garoppolo pass short left to D.Samuel to SF 47 for 19 yards (A.Amos, D.Campbell). Caught at SF 25. 22-YAC

-------------------
1st & 10 at GB 25

(10:12 - 3rd) (Shotgun) J.Garoppolo pass short middle to D.Samuel to GB 24 for 1 yard (D.Campbell). Caught at GB 30. 6-YAC

-------------------
 

 

This chart below is Deebo's week 4 target chart where he gets 88 YAC among his 156 total rec yards. On the surface, he is great at YAC. However, we can see majority of his YAC comes from two WR screens to the left and one long touchdown on the right sideline, which is a blown coverage and has nothing to do with his YAC ability.

 

 

 

Of course, this is from one game and we can easily find plays showing Deebo breaking tackles, having quick acceleration, or changing direction to have a good YAC gain. However, just keep in mind YAC has a lot to do with both Bills' and 49ers' offense design.

 

It doesn't take away Deebo's ability but once we take offense into account, the YAC differential isn't likely to be fixed by one player alone like Deebo.  Calling more WR screens to Mckenzie probably would have improved Bills' YAC quite a bit last season, but that might not be for the best of Bills offense.

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by syhuang