Isiah McKenzie as a Returner

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

I would prefer if he goes all-in on becoming a dependable slot receiver instead of a kick/punt returner. He has had a bunch of miscues as a returner and it's just in his head at this point.

 

I think we draft at least one receiver and they can battle Stevenson for the job.

[Paul Costa]

The only game I went to this year was the Miami home game. Lil dirty tried to field a punt at the goal line that definitely would have been a touchback. He fumbled it and Kumarow alertly punched it out of the end zone. This pic is Diggs ripping McKenzie after the play on the sidelines. I blew it up which doesn’t help for this discussion. McKenzie had a few of these we forgot because we got the ball. 

[BADOLBILZ]

53 minutes ago, Paul Costa said:

The only game I went to this year was the Miami home game. Lil dirty tried to field a punt at the goal line that definitely would have been a touchback. He fumbled it and Kumarow alertly punched it out of the end zone. This pic is Diggs ripping McKenzie after the play on the sidelines. I blew it up which doesn’t help for this discussion. McKenzie had a few of these we forgot because we got the ball. 

 

 

Yep.......5 years into his career he still makes inexplicable mental errors like that.     The fumbled KOR that got him benched was one of the crazier bonehead plays you will ever see in an an NFL football game.   

 

[John from Riverside]

Team would be better off using one of these draft picks on a guy that they can count on as a returner I am looking for Vilas Jones in the draft

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, Warcodered said:

Actually it's 2 on 43 returns or 1 on 24 returns, which would be more like 4%

 

And you have to take into account how he came to be a  Buffalo Bill. Claimed off of Waivers by the Broncos who let him go after he fumbled SIX returns in his rookie season. He fumbled two more times between Denver and Buffalo the following season. He wasn't used on returns again until last season. So those fumbles he had weren't an anomaly.

 

Hopefully we draft someone who can provide more and be safer with the ball than either Stevenson or McKenzie.

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[GunnerBill]

I think returner remains an unfilled position. Of the current roster, I'd prefer McKenzie do it than the other options despite the fumbles. Stevenson sucks. But I am expeting another late round receiver with some return ability in the draft. 

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

His one fumble in the past few years was a flukey non contact fumble..him have some fumbling issue is TOTALLY overblown.

 

 

 

Four fumbles in his 3.5 years in Buffalo.

 

All on returns.

 

Not overblown.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, Warcodered said:

You know who had 3 fumbles this year, and hell had 3 the year before? Andre Roberts.

 

All pro both those years and Pro Bowl as well in 2020.

 

 

Yeah, Roberts had 1 in 2019 in Buffalo and 3 in 2020 in Buffalo. And then he was let go. Funny how that happens.

 

In 2019 Roberts had 94 returns and one fumble.

 

In 2020 Roberts had 89 returns and three fumbles and they let him go.

 

In his four years here, McKenzie has had 76 returns and four fumbles. That's worse than Roberts by a significant margin. And McKenzie made some other mental mistakes returning here. He's just not very instinctive at it, whereas Roberts made very few of those mental mistakes.

 

 

[StHustle]

25 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Four fumbles in his 3.5 years in Buffalo.

 

All on returns.

 

Not overblown.

True or false? The last time he got hit and dropped the ball or muffed a return was over 3 seasons ago?

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, StHustle said:

True or false? The last time he got hit and dropped the ball or muffed a return was over 3 seasons ago?

 

False.

 

He dropped or muffed several kicks last year after being hit - we just did not lose it.  
 

He had at least 2 returns where he got hit and the ball ended up bouncing out of bounds including 1 in the playoffs.

 

He also muffed a kick in the field of play that luckily was ruled a muff and the ball was forced out of the end zone by I believe Kumerow.  That resulted in a touchback - but could easily have been a turnover and those do not end up in his official counts.

 

He easily put the ball on the ground at least 6 times on returns last season and was a limited returner for only the first part of the season.

 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

If you want WR Lil Dirty, then you don’t want KR Lil Dirty anyway…

[Matt_In_NH]

12 hours ago, StHustle said:

 

His one fumble in the past few years was a flukey non contact fumble..him have some fumbling issue is TOTALLY overblown.

 

 

I don't disagree based on in game situations.  The "flukey" fumble is hard to excuse though but at the same time people will fumble, it is part of the game.  The thing we dont know is what other information the coaches are working with, fumbles in practice for instance.   The fact he got benched after that makes me think there was more to it than that one play.

[Gugny]

He was one of the best returners in the NFL before he was inexplicably benched by McDermott.  

[Solomon Grundy]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think returner remains an unfilled position. Of the current roster, I'd prefer McKenzie do it than the other options despite the fumbles. Stevenson sucks. But I am expeting another late round receiver with some return ability in the draft. 

Didn't Crowder return kicks? 

[frostbitmic]

I root for punts and kickoffs to sail out of bounds or out of the end zone, it's safer that way.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

If you want WR Lil Dirty, then you don’t want KR Lil Dirty anyway…

 

 

Yup. Ten career fumbles. Zero on runs. Zero on receptions. All ten on returns.

 

 

7 hours ago, StHustle said:

True or false? The last time he got hit and dropped the ball or muffed a return was over 3 seasons ago?

 

 

False.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McKeIs00.htm

 

Did you really forget this one? I found it impossible to forget.

 

https://www.colts.com/video/highlight-t-j-carrie-recovers-isaiah-mckenzie-s-fumble

 

The other was in the Jets game on 1/10/22.

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Didn't Crowder return kicks? 

 

Think he has done it at some points. 

[PrimeTime101]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Think he has done it at some points. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2576716/jamison-crowder

 

2015, 2016, 2017 he returned punts not kickoffs 

[Warcodered]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yeah, Roberts had 1 in 2019 in Buffalo and 3 in 2020 in Buffalo. And then he was let go. Funny how that happens.

 

In 2019 Roberts had 94 returns and one fumble.

 

In 2020 Roberts had 89 returns and three fumbles and they let him go.

 

In his four years here, McKenzie has had 76 returns and four fumbles. That's worse than Roberts by a significant margin. And McKenzie made some other mental mistakes returning here. He's just not very instinctive at it, whereas Roberts made very few of those mental mistakes.

 

 

You'd think that would have prevented us from signing him in the first place then since he had 3 the year before he came here with the Jets, and 4 the year before that.

[YattaOkasan]

12 hours ago, TheProcess said:

Interesting you bring this fumble up. I was watching a replay of that game a while back (and even when I saw it live) where I remember thinking we really dodged a bullet there. I still think we would’ve won that game, but could’ve really taken the wind out of our sails early and either kept them in it or kept it closer for longer. Hard to really gripe about it knowing how dominant the team was that day, but really fortunate that went out of bounds. None of us want to relive any McKelvin-like returning moments in a big game against the cheats. 

I cant find this fumble.  Can someone please show me.  I dont have any punt returns for Mckenzie this past playoffs

 

yes pro football reference has only 2 fumbles to his name but he misfielded the ball in the miami game week 8 (inside the 20), misfielded the kickoff in the WFT game (inside the 20), and fumbled in the colts game that lead to 7 points (inside the 20).  the stats are not capturing all the critical mistakes he made.  For the record Stephenson is not the answer either.

 

Miami (@ 1:13:30)

 

WFT (@ 40:42)

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by YattaOkasan