Joe B article about cornerbacks

[whorlnut]

For those that have The Athletic, go read Joe B’s most recent article. He argues why corner at 25 isnt the slam dunk many are making it out to be. It’s a good read. 

[mushypeaches]

I think that his logic is sound, based on the last 5 years of the regime, as to why they might not draft a CB at 25

 

But I still want them to anyways.  Can never have too many quality players at that position.

 

We'll rue the day if Tre doesn't come back to form and we need Josh to score 40+ points just to win games.  

 

[TPS]

16 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

For those that have The Athletic, go read Joe B’s most recent article. He argues why corner at 25 isnt the slam dunk many are making it out to be. It’s a good read. 

Check the Von Miller quotes in the thread Yolo put up, he's actively recruiting Haden.

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, mushypeaches said:

I think that his logic is sound, based on the last 5 years of the regime, as to why they might not draft a CB at 25

 

But I still want them to anyways.  Can never have too many quality players at that position.

 

We'll rue the day if Tre doesn't come back to form and we need Josh to score 40+ points just to win games.  

 

 

That would be an epic fail on the other 10 players if a defense with Poyer, Hyde, Milano, Edmunds, T. Johnson, Miller, Oliver, Rousseau, Jones etc., can't hold down their side of the ball with Jackson on one side and a non-top pick CB opposite him until Tre comes back. 

[whorlnut]

5 minutes ago, mushypeaches said:

I think that his logic is sound, based on the last 5 years of the regime, as to why they might not draft a CB at 25

 

But I still want them to anyways.  Can never have too many quality players at that position.

 

We'll rue the day if Tre doesn't come back to form and we need Josh to score 40+ points just to win games.  

 

That’s my point though…get weapons that help Allen instead of putting it all on him. Make his life as easy as possible. Keep stacking long term weapons on offense. We saw too many times last year that he literally won the game on his own. He was the leading rusher way too often. That isn’t sustainable. 

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

 

That would be an epic fail on the other 10 players if a defense with Poyer, Hyde, Milano, Edmunds, T. Johnson, Miller, Oliver, Rousseau, Jones etc., can't hold down their side of the ball with Jackson on one side and a non-top pick CB opposite him until Tre comes back. 

Totally agree. The defense is good enough. We can get by with a Jag at CB2…which is exactly what every McD led defense has done back to his days in Carolina. And he is the best in the league at getting the most out of DBs. 

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, mushypeaches said:

I think that his logic is sound, based on the last 5 years of the regime, as to why they might not draft a CB at 25

 

But I still want them to anyways.  Can never have too many quality players at that position.

 

We'll rue the day if Tre doesn't come back to form and we need Josh to score 40+ points just to win games.  

 

What team's defense is so bad they have to score 40+ to win?

[eball]

I'm not here to say I told you so, but... 

 

Kidding aside, I have said all offseason I'd be surprised if they go CB at #1 unless something crazy happens and a can't miss guy falls to them.  I hold to that thinking.

[Bray Wyatt]

can we get some snippets from the article? I am curious to what his actual point he is making as to why

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I still predict a CB/Safety hybrid 

[Coach Tuesday]

If they can somehow snag Damari Mathis in Round 2 or 3...

[Solomon Grundy]

26 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

That would be an epic fail on the other 10 players if a defense with Poyer, Hyde, Milano, Edmunds, T. Johnson, Miller, Oliver, Rousseau, Jones etc., can't hold down their side of the ball with Jackson on one side and a non-top pick CB opposite him until Tre comes back. 

They did it with Levi Wallace 

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

They did it with Levi Wallace 

And they are trying to do the same with Dane Jackson. 

[Gugny]

https://theathletic.com/3259273/2022/04/20/bills-nfl-draft-cornerbacks/

 

Some highlights ....

 

The Bills have checked almost every box across their starting lineup this offseason.

 

A top-tier pass rusher to give them something they haven’t had for the past three years? The Bills added Von Miller, and they supported him with four other free-agent additions on the defensive line. Check.

 

An upgraded offensive line, complete with bringing back the other four playoff starters? Rodger Saffold is in, Daryl Williams is out and they re-signed Ryan Bates. Check.

 

A refreshed group of wide receivers? Emmanuel Sanders and Cole Beasley are out. Gabriel Davis is now a full-time starter, they re-signed Isaiah McKenzie and signed productive slot receiver Jamison Crowder. Check.

 

Because of all their dealings, one position has developed into the strong lean in mock drafts across the NFL frontier: cornerback.

It’s the only position the Bills haven’t significantly addressed this offseason. And it’s a pretty easy draft argument, considering that’s what’s remaining from the potential liabilities of their starting lineup.

 

Two factors that contribute to the theory are that Tre’Davious White is coming off a torn ACL in late November, and Dane Jackson was a hit-or-miss replacement for White through the end of the playoffs. Since there’s uncertainty about when White will be 100 percent, cornerback is more pressing to those outside of the organization.

 

Regarding short-term requirements, cornerback is the low-hanging fruit of the Bills’ draft needs because it provides the most straightforward justification for their 2022 roster. Sometimes, the Bills go for the low-hanging fruit in the first round, but it’s not always that simple.

It deserves a deeper look than “they need a cornerback the most, so they should just draft one in the first round.” Should they be committed to using their top draft resource on a cornerback, and what does their past show us?

It comes down to positional importance, value, the success of development, other avenues that can contribute and what can help the Bills most over the long term.

 

That’s where I believe there is quite a bit of wiggle room. If the Bills see someone at No. 25 who matches the value of their selection, it’s fruitless to rule out a cornerback. But it’s not nearly the slam dunk many are making it out to be.

 

Since 2018, his first draft year, Beane has not used a draft pick on an intended-boundary cornerback in the first five rounds. The only players he has drafted to the position have been Jackson (seventh round, 2020) and Rachad Wildgoose (sixth round, 2021). Teams are usually not drafting late-round cornerbacks with the idea that they eventually would compete for a starting role. Beane’s favorite avenue has been trying to find undrafted free-agent gems at cornerback as they did with Levi Wallace, and they have a couple they like right now in Nick McCloud and Olaijah Griffin.

 

Since McDermott has become the head coach, the Bills have hesitated to put a complete starter’s workload on a young player, regardless of how early he was drafted. In 2017, the team didn’t start offensive tackle Dion Dawkins until Week 3  and resisted the urge to make linebacker Matt Milano a full-time starter until Week 14, despite Milano completely outplaying starter Ramon Humber up to that point. The Bills made quarterback Josh Allen the starter only after Nathan Peterman made them non-competitive to open 2018.

 

In 2019, Ed Oliver, Cody Ford, Devin Singletary and Dawson Knox were all just rotational players rather than full-time starters. The same went for A.J. Epenesa and Zack Moss in 2020. In 2021, the team “started” Gregory Rousseau every week, but he was just a rotational defensive end who played 49 percent of all defensive snaps. The Bills also didn’t make Spencer Brown a starter until they concluded that Daryl Williams was hurting them at right tackle. The only exceptions to the rookie rule have been White, Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds, though they all started because the Bills would have been utterly non-competitive without them in the lineup.

 

It’s rare for McDermott to put his faith in a rookie during a 17-game season. He firmly believes that the rookie wall is real and actively manages time off the field throughout the season to help prevent a steep drop-off. The idea that a cornerback selected at No. 25, or any position for that matter, is going to walk in and be the coast-to-coast starter in 2022 lacks the supporting evidence of McDermott’s history with first-year players. The Bills have shown an excellent ability to develop their players, and deviating from that philosophy does not seem likely.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

They’re going to draft as their board dictates. Positions not high on their board is short, QB, K, and P.  Everything else is in play at 25. Ok no long snappers.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[John from Riverside]

I am a Andrew Booth fan at 25....if he is not there I could see us going in like three different directions.

 

but

 

To be clear there are three things going on here

 

- This draft has good corners....it only makes sense that we could draft one

 

- We are in a champship window

 

- Tre White is probably not starting the season.....Dane jackons is a 2nd year starter.....we let Wallace go free agency.   We are NOT rolling out Dane Jackson and Cam Lewis when all of these other AFC teams have been biulding up their offensive weapons.

[whorlnut]

8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I am a Andrew Booth fan at 25....if he is not there I could see us going in like three different directions.

 

but

 

To be clear there are three things going on here

 

- This draft has good corners....it only makes sense that we could draft one

 

- We are in a champship window

 

- Tre White is probably not starting the season.....Dane jackons is a 2nd year starter.....we let Wallace go free agency.   We are NOT rolling out Dane Jackson and Cam Lewis when all of these other AFC teams have been biulding up their offensive weapons.

You think the chiefs care about defense?  Haha. They just keep loading up on offensive weapons and overwhelm opposing defenses. I’m more convinced that I’m today’s nfl, that is the way to go. 

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

You think the chiefs care about defense?  Haha. They just keep loading up on offensive weapons and overwhelm opposing defenses. I’m more convinced that I’m today’s nfl, that is the way to go. 

We are not the chiefs......our HC is a friggen D coordinator...he doesnt think about this the same way you do.

 

And.....he is right and you are wrong

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

That’s my point though…get weapons that help Allen instead of putting it all on him. Make his life as easy as possible. Keep stacking long term weapons on offense. We saw too many times last year that he literally won the game on his own. He was the leading rusher way too often. That isn’t sustainable. 

Totally agree. The defense is good enough. We can get by with a Jag at CB2…which is exactly what every McD led defense has done back to his days in Carolina. And he is the best in the league at getting the most out of DBs. 

 

25 minutes ago, Gugny said:

https://theathletic.com/3259273/2022/04/20/bills-nfl-draft-cornerbacks/

 

Some highlights ....

 

The Bills have checked almost every box across their starting lineup this offseason.

 

A top-tier pass rusher to give them something they haven’t had for the past three years? The Bills added Von Miller, and they supported him with four other free-agent additions on the defensive line. Check.

 

An upgraded offensive line, complete with bringing back the other four playoff starters? Rodger Saffold is in, Daryl Williams is out and they re-signed Ryan Bates. Check.

 

A refreshed group of wide receivers? Emmanuel Sanders and Cole Beasley are out. Gabriel Davis is now a full-time starter, they re-signed Isaiah McKenzie and signed productive slot receiver Jamison Crowder. Check.

 

Because of all their dealings, one position has developed into the strong lean in mock drafts across the NFL frontier: cornerback.

It’s the only position the Bills haven’t significantly addressed this offseason. And it’s a pretty easy draft argument, considering that’s what’s remaining from the potential liabilities of their starting lineup.

 

Two factors that contribute to the theory are that Tre’Davious White is coming off a torn ACL in late November, and Dane Jackson was a hit-or-miss replacement for White through the end of the playoffs. Since there’s uncertainty about when White will be 100 percent, cornerback is more pressing to those outside of the organization.

 

Regarding short-term requirements, cornerback is the low-hanging fruit of the Bills’ draft needs because it provides the most straightforward justification for their 2022 roster. Sometimes, the Bills go for the low-hanging fruit in the first round, but it’s not always that simple.

It deserves a deeper look than “they need a cornerback the most, so they should just draft one in the first round.” Should they be committed to using their top draft resource on a cornerback, and what does their past show us?

It comes down to positional importance, value, the success of development, other avenues that can contribute and what can help the Bills most over the long term.

 

That’s where I believe there is quite a bit of wiggle room. If the Bills see someone at No. 25 who matches the value of their selection, it’s fruitless to rule out a cornerback. But it’s not nearly the slam dunk many are making it out to be.

 

Since 2018, his first draft year, Beane has not used a draft pick on an intended-boundary cornerback in the first five rounds. The only players he has drafted to the position have been Jackson (seventh round, 2020) and Rachad Wildgoose (sixth round, 2021). Teams are usually not drafting late-round cornerbacks with the idea that they eventually would compete for a starting role. Beane’s favorite avenue has been trying to find undrafted free-agent gems at cornerback as they did with Levi Wallace, and they have a couple they like right now in Nick McCloud and Olaijah Griffin.

 

Since McDermott has become the head coach, the Bills have hesitated to put a complete starter’s workload on a young player, regardless of how early he was drafted. In 2017, the team didn’t start offensive tackle Dion Dawkins until Week 3  and resisted the urge to make linebacker Matt Milano a full-time starter until Week 14, despite Milano completely outplaying starter Ramon Humber up to that point. The Bills made quarterback Josh Allen the starter only after Nathan Peterman made them non-competitive to open 2018.

 

In 2019, Ed Oliver, Cody Ford, Devin Singletary and Dawson Knox were all just rotational players rather than full-time starters. The same went for A.J. Epenesa and Zack Moss in 2020. In 2021, the team “started” Gregory Rousseau every week, but he was just a rotational defensive end who played 49 percent of all defensive snaps. The Bills also didn’t make Spencer Brown a starter until they concluded that Daryl Williams was hurting them at right tackle. The only exceptions to the rookie rule have been White, Zay Jones and Tremaine Edmunds, though they all started because the Bills would have been utterly non-competitive without them in the lineup.

 

It’s rare for McDermott to put his faith in a rookie during a 17-game season. He firmly believes that the rookie wall is real and actively manages time off the field throughout the season to help prevent a steep drop-off. The idea that a cornerback selected at No. 25, or any position for that matter, is going to walk in and be the coast-to-coast starter in 2022 lacks the supporting evidence of McDermott’s history with first-year players. The Bills have shown an excellent ability to develop their players, and deviating from that philosophy does not seem likely.

 

If T White hadn't got  hurt, would completely agree with his logic.  But IMO that changes alot here with CB in general.  Unless they feel strongly that White will be back Sept 1st at 80 to 90%??

[eball]

19 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We are NOT rolling out Dane Jackson and Cam Lewis when all of these other AFC teams have been biulding up their offensive weapons.

 

Why would you presume the only way for the Bills to avoid that scenario is to draft a CB in the 1st round?  Good god, man, CBs are available in rounds other than the 1st and there a bunch of veterans out there to sign post-draft.

[whorlnut]

5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

We are not the chiefs......our HC is a friggen D coordinator...he doesnt think about this the same way you do.

 

And.....he is right and you are wrong

Lots of opinions in this post…