I might be an outlier here...... Draft needs

[BillsFanForever19]

2 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Yeah I agree.  It's slim pickings out there for CBs.  Nobody's arguing that CB is a high draft need.  I just wished Beane landed a quality FA.  We only see the outcome.  We don't see how many OFFERS were made to land an FA CB.  Can't win them all (I'm assuming here though... that there were calls).

 

But again, if the plan were truly that we must have a veteran in here on the other side and had fear of starting one of the top 4 or 5 CB's in the Draft, we'd have gotten it done with somebody. You can't tell me we did what we did to get Von Miller, addressed all the other positions we did, and that we just couldn't get a deal done with any of the many CB's that were available.

 

It's obvious the plan was and is to get a long term, quality starter at a cost controlled price tag; knowing we're paying Tre a lot on the other side. Only one way to do that. And his actions (or lack thereof) at CB this offseason confirm it.

[Yantha]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

But again, if the plan were truly that we must have a veteran in here on the other side and had fear of starting one of the top 4 or 5 CB's in the Draft, we'd have gotten it done with somebody. You can't tell me we did what we did to get Von Miller, addressed all the other positions we did, and that we just couldn't get a deal done with any of the many CB's that were available.

 

It's obvious the plan was and is to get a long term, quality starter at a cost controlled price tag; knowing we're paying Tre a lot on the other side. Only one way to do that. And his actions (or lack thereof) at CB this offseason confirm it.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.  So who are your "hopefuls" in early rounds?  And do you have any sleepers beyond round 3 that could fill that role?

[Mango]

6 hours ago, Yantha said:

Hey folks,

 

I might be an outlier here, but my mind has changed a few times in the lead up to the draft.  After we've added a few key pieces to our roster, and lost a few others, I'm starting to think that our draft needs have shifted.... surprisingly in my opinion to OFFENSE moreso than defense.

 

Hear me out.

 

Positional groups needs I think are in the following order of "need".  While I DO understand that some positions are more noticeable if the team is weaker at that position (like QB, Cornerback), here are our positional grouping needs  in order of weakest to strongest.

 

Center:  I feel that Center has been the most sneaky need this team has, and feel that the position MUST be upgraded in the early rounds, without question.  Not only do we lack depth but Morse needs and upgrade as the starter.  

 

Tight End:  We have one of the best QB's in the league but completely lack the TE option on this team.  In KC, Kelce is such a threat that their WR's look that much better since safeties can't double cover or drop too deep for support.  I'd say a second rounder on TE is a serious option for the upcoming draft.

 

Guard:  Part of the reason we haven't had a great running game is due to the lack of a dominant, run-blocking front.  While I feel that our runningbacks in their own right don't exactly instill fear in opposing defenses, an upgrade at ONE guard spot could help in this regard.  Hoping for a balanced target, but one that has a nasty streak that can can create some inside lanes.  It MIGHT even help Moss elevate his game.

 

Runningback:  We suck.  Sorry but we do.  I used to be a big Tomlinson fan and have been longing to see a DOMINANT run game from the Bills.  Having the THUNDER to go with Allen's lightning would have a domino effect of helping out Diggs/Davis on the outside.  Stack the box?  Well that would help our NEW TE, as well as our WRs.

 

Defensive End:  Yes, I know I'm an outlier here, but IF we don't bring back Hughes, I feel that's a bigger loss than some on this board feel.  Boogie, Epensa, Addison, Lawson are all playing at a backup level (on this playoff caliber team).  

 

Cornerback:  This is where I have cornerback, but it likely bumps up to somewhere near the top because, like I mentioned, corner is one of those positions where you've GOT to have quality starters or the whole game will unravel.  I think we need not one, but two additions.  I think that Taron Johnson might be the only corner I feel somewhat happy with.  Siran Neal should NOT start.

 

Offensive Tackle:  Could use an upgrade, and if we go OT, it would be a good idea.  HOWEVER, if there are "equal quality" players on the board with any of the above positions, you have to go with another player.  

 

Linebacker:  NOT a fan of our depth, but Von Miller changed the whole story here.  If Edmunds turns it around, this could be a very good group.  Thumbs down to Milano.

 

FINAL ON MY LIST is WR:  It used to be higher, and I DO think we should draft a WR outside of the first 3 rounds UNLESS some amazing wideout slips to us.  I like our top 2 WR, and Crowder in the slot.  Can we do better than Crowder?  Yes, BUT again, I'd rather add a dominant TE and/or RB..... and/or an upgrade(s) to our OL. 

 

Okay............    let me have it.

 

Be gentle.  lol

 

Forgot to mention:  S and QB not a draft need right now.

 

28 minutes ago, Yantha said:

I said in my OP that CB is likely at the top of the list that I posted......  And I didn't say anything about Siran Neal or Dane Jackson being better than Morse.  Both are most certainly NOT better than Morse....  I see Taron Johnson as a player with more upside actually.    We need to address CB in FA, and pick CB in the top 3 or 4 rounds.

 

Your original post quite literally says “in order from weakest to strongest”. You even bolded it. You also said CB is “likely NEAR the top”. 
 

Taron doesn’t play on the outside. He’s not really involved in the conversation about upgrading the CB role. Taron is starting nickel. 

 

So no, you didn’t explicitly say Dane Jackson is better than Mitch Morse. But when you explicitly say that upgrading Morse is THE WORST position on the roster, you don’t need to explicitly say Morse is worse than Jackson, or Neal, or Kumerow, because you’ve stated it’s the worst position on the roster. THE.WORST. 
 

Morse isn’t our worst OL let alone the worst position on the entire roster. 

[WickedGame]

6 hours ago, Yantha said:

Guys.....  Chill!  lol

 

Ah, the “Hear Me Out” Double Down. A classic. 
 

I’m sold. We should probably replace our coaching staff and GM, too. Ya know…because Internet and stuff. 

[John from Riverside]

25 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Yeah I agree.  It's slim pickings out there for CBs.  Nobody's arguing that CB is a high draft need.  I just wished Beane landed a quality FA.  We only see the outcome.  We don't see how many OFFERS were made to land an FA CB.  Can't win them all (I'm assuming here though... that there were calls).

 

 

Just found this on PFF discussing potential post draft cap casualties.  If the draft board shaped up to draft OC high, Morse might be a cap casualty.  That's a big IF, but I'm not the only one thinking that the INTERIOR O-LINE needs to be addressed.

 

From PFF:

"BUFFALO BILLS: C MITCH MORSE 

Cut cap savings: $8,500,000
Cut dead money: $2,750,000

The Bills signed center Morse to a four-year, $44 million contract heading into quarterback Josh Allen’s second season, an important addition to help the young signal-caller make protection calls and oversee a high-octane offense. While Morse has been solid if unspectacular, he agreed to a pay cut prior to the 2021 season and followed that up with his lowest pass-blocking and run-blocking grades so far in Buffalo. 

Buffalo has made it clear that protecting Allen is its top priority going forward, but the $8.5 million in potential savings from releasing Morse may help accomplish that goal more than retaining him.  "

PFF quite literally sucks

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, Yantha said:

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.  So who are your "hopefuls" in early rounds?  And do you have any sleepers beyond round 3 that could fill that role?

 

I'm almost expecting him to move up to ensure he lands one of the top 4 CB's in this Draft. I don't see him just sitting at 25 and hoping the guy he likes falls to him. Maybe just a few picks, but I gotta be honest, I would not be shocked to see him make a big leap up to grab one of the top two if one starts to slip a little bit. Those being in this order:

 

Ahmad 'Sauce' Gardner - Cincinnati

Derek Stingley Jr. - LSU

Andrew Booth - Clemson

Trent McDuffie - Washington

 

Any of those four would start immediately and I have little doubt they'd be any worse than Levi Wallace (each to differing degrees). After that, either at 25, as part of a trade down, or a trade up from 57, he'd have to at least grab one of (personally, in this order, but I'd trust him if he had it ranked differently):

 

Kaiir Elam - Florida

Kyler Gordon - Washington

Roger McCreary - Auburn

Tariq Woolen - UTSA

 

Daxton Hill - Michigan could be somewhere near the top of that list as well. He's a Safety, Nickel hybrid, but apparently there's a lot of teams that feel he can play Outside CB. If Beane felt strongly about that, I'd trust him.

 

In my eyes, we MUST grab one of those top 9 guys by mid Round 2 at the latest. It's not even an option. We have no choice.

Edited April 17, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[BigAl2526]

5 hours ago, Yantha said:

Hey folks,

 

I might be an outlier here, but my mind has changed a few times in the lead up to the draft.  After we've added a few key pieces to our roster, and lost a few others, I'm starting to think that our draft needs have shifted.... surprisingly in my opinion to OFFENSE moreso than defense.

 

Hear me out.

 

Positional groups needs I think are in the following order of "need".  While I DO understand that some positions are more noticeable if the team is weaker at that position (like QB, Cornerback), here are our positional grouping needs  in order of weakest to strongest.

 

Center:  I feel that Center has been the most sneaky need this team has, and feel that the position MUST be upgraded in the early rounds, without question.  Not only do we lack depth but Morse needs and upgrade as the starter.  

 

Tight End:  We have one of the best QB's in the league but completely lack the TE option on this team.  In KC, Kelce is such a threat that their WR's look that much better since safeties can't double cover or drop too deep for support.  I'd say a second rounder on TE is a serious option for the upcoming draft.

 

Guard:  Part of the reason we haven't had a great running game is due to the lack of a dominant, run-blocking front.  While I feel that our runningbacks in their own right don't exactly instill fear in opposing defenses, an upgrade at ONE guard spot could help in this regard.  Hoping for a balanced target, but one that has a nasty streak that can can create some inside lanes.  It MIGHT even help Moss elevate his game.

 

Runningback:  We suck.  Sorry but we do.  I used to be a big Tomlinson fan and have been longing to see a DOMINANT run game from the Bills.  Having the THUNDER to go with Allen's lightning would have a domino effect of helping out Diggs/Davis on the outside.  Stack the box?  Well that would help our NEW TE, as well as our WRs.

 

Defensive End:  Yes, I know I'm an outlier here, but IF we don't bring back Hughes, I feel that's a bigger loss than some on this board feel.  Boogie, Epensa, Addison, Lawson are all playing at a backup level (on this playoff caliber team).  

 

Cornerback:  This is where I have cornerback, but it likely bumps up to somewhere near the top because, like I mentioned, corner is one of those positions where you've GOT to have quality starters or the whole game will unravel.  I think we need not one, but two additions.  I think that Taron Johnson might be the only corner I feel somewhat happy with.  Siran Neal should NOT start.

 

Offensive Tackle:  Could use an upgrade, and if we go OT, it would be a good idea.  HOWEVER, if there are "equal quality" players on the board with any of the above positions, you have to go with another player.  

 

Linebacker:  NOT a fan of our depth, but Von Miller changed the whole story here.  If Edmunds turns it around, this could be a very good group.  Thumbs down to Milano.

 

FINAL ON MY LIST is WR:  It used to be higher, and I DO think we should draft a WR outside of the first 3 rounds UNLESS some amazing wideout slips to us.  I like our top 2 WR, and Crowder in the slot.  Can we do better than Crowder?  Yes, BUT again, I'd rather add a dominant TE and/or RB..... and/or an upgrade(s) to our OL. 

 

Okay............    let me have it.

 

Be gentle.  lol

 

Forgot to mention:  S and QB not a draft need right now.

I agree, Buffalo needs a little more competition at guard, someone who can play both guard and center would be just the thing.  You may want to replace Morse this season, but I don't think it's happening.  I also don't think tackle is a high priority for Buffalo in this draft.  Tight end is a low priority too.  There is no Travis Kelce in this draft, and Dawson Knox has become a solid tight end. 

 

Brian Daboll didn't feature the tight end that much, but Knox did everything asked of him.  OJ Howard was underutilized in Tampa after Gronk came to town, but I think in the right circumstances he has starter level ability. 

 

If Buffalo sees compelling value at TE when their pick comes up, I'm not objecting to the choice of a tight end, but it's not a need that has to be addressed.  I do agree that Buffalo could stand a solid upgrade at running back.  If Breece Hall dropped to Buffalo's spot in the second round or they decided to draft Kenneth Walker III at that spot, I would be very happy. 

 

I think Von Miller is primarily a defensive end in Buffalo's defense.  I would love to have another dominant defensive end across from Von Miller, but it's not this highest priority on the team.  The chances of getting someone better than Epenesa, Rousseau and Basham continue to drop after round one, and I don't think Buffalo is picking on in round one.  Boye Mafe is the only one who might be available late in round one with that kind of elite upside, and he's recovering from an injury.  Same Williams is intriguing in the second round, if Buffalo doesn't go somewhere else.  Cornerback is probably the most acute need, with Wallace gone.  I don't have confidence in Dane Jackson as a starter.  

 

Linebacker depth could be better, but it's not an urgent priority.  If Buffalo sees one they like on day three, I'm good with that.  At WR, I'm of the opinion that the best way to take advantage of a QB like Josh Allen is with speed at receiver.  I'm OK with Gabe Davis starting across from Diggs, but Buffalo doesn't really have a lot of elite speed at WR.  Diggs is a 4.46 guy.  McKenzie is bit faster at 4.42.  Stevenson is faster, in the 4.3 range (ran a 4.37 at the combine) but he was a 6th round draft pick.  He might develop into a superstar, but Buffalo can't count on that.  He's also on the shorter size.  I'd love to see Buffalo take a flyer on Tyquan Thornton on day three.  He'll take some development, but he's obviously got home run speed to go with plus size.

[RunTheBall]

Did Mitch bang your gf?

 

 

[Yantha]

Thanks for the discussion and entertainment today.

 

....and now back to your regularly scheduled program.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens on draft day and who our starters will be.  

 

Go Bills

[BillsFanForever19]

1 hour ago, Yantha said:

Just found this on PFF discussing potential post draft cap casualties.  If the draft board shaped up to draft OC high, Morse might be a cap casualty.  That's a big IF, but I'm not the only one thinking that the INTERIOR O-LINE needs to be addressed.

 

From PFF:

"BUFFALO BILLS: C MITCH MORSE 

Cut cap savings: $8,500,000
Cut dead money: $2,750,000

The Bills signed center Morse to a four-year, $44 million contract heading into quarterback Josh Allen’s second season, an important addition to help the young signal-caller make protection calls and oversee a high-octane offense. While Morse has been solid if unspectacular, he agreed to a pay cut prior to the 2021 season and followed that up with his lowest pass-blocking and run-blocking grades so far in Buffalo. 

Buffalo has made it clear that protecting Allen is its top priority going forward, but the $8.5 million in potential savings from releasing Morse may help accomplish that goal more than retaining him.  "

 

Considering it makes no mention of his extension from a month ago, that was written before we did:

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2022/03/14/mitch-morse-two-year-extension-buffalo-bills/

[Rochesterfan]

53 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Yeah I agree.  It's slim pickings out there for CBs.  Nobody's arguing that CB is a high draft need.  I just wished Beane landed a quality FA.  We only see the outcome.  We don't see how many OFFERS were made to land an FA CB.  Can't win them all (I'm assuming here though... that there were calls).

 

 

Just found this on PFF discussing potential post draft cap casualties.  If the draft board shaped up to draft OC high, Morse might be a cap casualty.  That's a big IF, but I'm not the only one thinking that the INTERIOR O-LINE needs to be addressed.

 

From PFF:

"BUFFALO BILLS: C MITCH MORSE 

Cut cap savings: $8,500,000
Cut dead money: $2,750,000

The Bills signed center Morse to a four-year, $44 million contract heading into quarterback Josh Allen’s second season, an important addition to help the young signal-caller make protection calls and oversee a high-octane offense. While Morse has been solid if unspectacular, he agreed to a pay cut prior to the 2021 season and followed that up with his lowest pass-blocking and run-blocking grades so far in Buffalo. 

Buffalo has made it clear that protecting Allen is its top priority going forward, but the $8.5 million in potential savings from releasing Morse may help accomplish that goal more than retaining him.  "

 

 

Holy god dude -  you are the worst.  This PFF article is from the end of February.  Guess what happened a week later.

 

Yeah the Bills works out a extension with Mitch Morse adding years to his contract.

 

You are literally trying to support you case with an old out of date PFF article.

 

The Bills have literally (and I mean literally) put your entire argument to rest by restructuring his contract and extending him.  Therefore - no matter how stupid of an argument you want to make - the Bills have already played a card and showed part of their hand that Morse is their starter his year and next.  
 

Now could the Bills draft IOL - yes they could - they have Saffold on a 1 year deal and Bates has multispot flexibility and could move anyplace along the line.  It just is not a very high priority compared to say CB or WR.

 

TE is a sneaky need - they have 4 guys on the roster and a flex FB/TE, but I believe all of them are FAs after this year.  If they think they can resign Knox and keep the UFA in Morris - I expect them to go late round TE - 3rd - 5th.

 

RB is much less of a need and as Sal/Joe pointed out - they reached out and signed a specific type of back at a specific monetary range - they believe that shows his desire for RB - expect a later round pick here in that mold.  Do not expect a high pick unless someone falls to them.

 

2nd and 3rd round seem primed for some LB action.

 

DE is not a Ned because hey are covered with what they have.

 

Therefore - you are looking at CB/WR as the primary focus in RD 1 with maybe the other falling to RD 2.

 

My guess is Booth, Hall, or Olave in Round 1.

 

 

[Augie]

7 hours ago, Yantha said:

Yeah but he's a linebacker.  You'll see him up on the line and also back.  Depends on the alignment, matchups etc.  I agree with you though on the premise that he adds a pass rush element lost by a key departure.

 

We may skip DE in this draft because of that point.  We'll see!

 

What you call an “outlier”, @DC Tom might have another word for. This feel like a cry for help. It will be OK. 

[PrimeTime101]

5 hours ago, Yantha said:

That I think we can ALL agree on..

Here's a question.

Which player do you think is the weakest STARTING link on offense?

If you have to ask us that question, then your either clueless or trolling...

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, Yantha said:

 

 

Center:  I feel that Center has been the most sneaky need this team has, and feel that the position MUST be upgraded in the early rounds, without question.  Not only do we lack depth but Morse needs and upgrade as the starter.  

 

Tight End:  We have one of the best QB's in the league but completely lack the TE option on this team.  In KC, Kelce is such a threat that their WR's look that much better since safeties can't double cover or drop too deep for support.  I'd say a second rounder on TE is a serious option for the upcoming draft.

 

 

 

Morse has been very good as center. We don't need an upgrade. We do need to prepare for a future without him as he grows older

 

The idea that running back sucks is flat-out ridiculous. Singletary for his career has averaged 4.7 YPC, which is really good, and was playing very well once the OL came together last year. 

 

TE is your second?

 

Wow. Not going to spend a lot of time on the specifics then. You're indeed an outlier alright.

[Richard Noggin]

I'd like to read through this thread if I lived in an alternate universe where my life was...different. Quieter. 

 

But to lead with Center, when the Bills just made an unexpected, and telling, reinvestment in Mitch Morse, who played really well last season and presumably fits the new scheme, is...questionable. 

 

It doesn't get a LOT better after that. But you hit on some valid points. 

[Richard Noggin]

47 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Morse has been very good as center. We don't need an upgrade. We do need to prepare for a future without him as he grows older

 

The idea that running back sucks is flat-out ridiculous. Singletary for his career has averaged 4.7 YPC, which is really good, and was playing very well once the OL came together last year. 

 

TE is your second?

 

Wow. Not going to spend a lot of time on the specifics then. You're indeed an outlier alright.

 

Isn't Mitch Morse 29 and freshly re-signed? The concussions and his composure and bald, burly look during interviews, might have most of us fooled (thinking he's old). Mitch Morse is potentially in the prime of his career. His movement skills might even flourish further under Aaron Kromer. 

[intimidatortj]

I believe the Bills will draft a Tight End somewhere in rounds 2 - 4.

I also believe the Bills will draft a Safety somewhere in rounds 2 - 4.

 

I do agree WR is lower on Beane's list, compared to what fans want.

 

Lastly, I think RB could be a pick....driven by value.   If there is a really good RB at pick 57, the Bills could pull the trigger.

Or in the 3rd or 4th round.  It will just depend on what the value looks like when the Bills are on clock, compared to their board rankings for RBs.

I like Ken Walker JR at pick 57,  Zamir White at pick 89 and Kevin Harris in the 4rd round.

 

[chongli]

10 hours ago, MiltonWaddams said:

But, if you take out Josh, Diggs and Gabe, where is the truly elite offense?

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but wanted to say that is like saying KC in the past was not truly elite without Mahomes, Kelce, and Hill. The reason the Bills offense is elite is exactly because of Josh, Stefon, etc.

[machine gun kelly]

I hear Yantha went to some high level meetings for this info.

[FieldGeneral]

The best thing about having a great QB is you can go after position groups that you may not need to get BPA.