I might be an outlier here...... Draft needs

[JoPoy88]

4 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

"Hear me out"

I always stop reading right there.

3 hours ago, Yantha said:

One thing I've noticed about some bills fans on this board is that you have rose coloured glasses on on some topics.  

 

Do you disagree that the OL needs a few key pieces?

Cornerback?

A dominant runningback?

Weren't you jealous of KC's Kelce?

 

That's basically what my thread was all about and the "needs" low on the list are negligible.  

 

I disagree we need a top 3 round WR example....

 

Man some of you are dense....

it’s not irrational optimism, you just don’t know anything about football.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Yantha said:

I was disappointed in that signing.

 

You might have been. But the Bills weren't. 

 

We will draft a tight end this year. Almost a given. But it will be rounds 3-5 not round 1 or 2.

1 hour ago, Yantha said:

That I think we can ALL agree on..

Here's a question.

Which player do you think is the weakest STARTING link on offense?

 

 

It is the right side of our offensive line.

[julian]

I sometimes have thoughts, what I believe to be insightful and interesting thoughts and maybe I think I should start a thread.

 

Then I don’t.

[longtimebillsfan]

4 hours ago, Yantha said:

Hey folks,

 

I might be an outlier here, but my mind has changed a few times in the lead up to the draft.  After we've added a few key pieces to our roster, and lost a few others, I'm starting to think that our draft needs have shifted.... surprisingly in my opinion to OFFENSE moreso than defense.

 

Hear me out.

 

Positional groups needs I think are in the following order of "need".  While I DO understand that some positions are more noticeable if the team is weaker at that position (like QB, Cornerback), here are our positional grouping needs  in order of weakest to strongest.

 

Center:  I feel that Center has been the most sneaky need this team has, and feel that the position MUST be upgraded in the early rounds, without question.  Not only do we lack depth but Morse needs and upgrade as the starter.  

 

Tight End:  We have one of the best QB's in the league but completely lack the TE option on this team.  In KC, Kelce is such a threat that their WR's look that much better since safeties can't double cover or drop too deep for support.  I'd say a second rounder on TE is a serious option for the upcoming draft.

 

Guard:  Part of the reason we haven't had a great running game is due to the lack of a dominant, run-blocking front.  While I feel that our runningbacks in their own right don't exactly instill fear in opposing defenses, an upgrade at ONE guard spot could help in this regard.  Hoping for a balanced target, but one that has a nasty streak that can can create some inside lanes.  It MIGHT even help Moss elevate his game.

 

Runningback:  We suck.  Sorry but we do.  I used to be a big Tomlinson fan and have been longing to see a DOMINANT run game from the Bills.  Having the THUNDER to go with Allen's lightning would have a domino effect of helping out Diggs/Davis on the outside.  Stack the box?  Well that would help our NEW TE, as well as our WRs.

 

Defensive End:  Yes, I know I'm an outlier here, but IF we don't bring back Hughes, I feel that's a bigger loss than some on this board feel.  Boogie, Epensa, Addison, Lawson are all playing at a backup level (on this playoff caliber team).  

 

Cornerback:  This is where I have cornerback, but it likely bumps up to somewhere near the top because, like I mentioned, corner is one of those positions where you've GOT to have quality starters or the whole game will unravel.  I think we need not one, but two additions.  I think that Taron Johnson might be the only corner I feel somewhat happy with.  Siran Neal should NOT start.

 

Offensive Tackle:  Could use an upgrade, and if we go OT, it would be a good idea.  HOWEVER, if there are "equal quality" players on the board with any of the above positions, you have to go with another player.  

 

Linebacker:  NOT a fan of our depth, but Von Miller changed the whole story here.  If Edmunds turns it around, this could be a very good group.  Thumbs down to Milano.

 

FINAL ON MY LIST is WR:  It used to be higher, and I DO think we should draft a WR outside of the first 3 rounds UNLESS some amazing wideout slips to us.  I like our top 2 WR, and Crowder in the slot.  Can we do better than Crowder?  Yes, BUT again, I'd rather add a dominant TE and/or RB..... and/or an upgrade(s) to our OL. 

 

Okay............    let me have it.

 

Be gentle.  lol

 

Forgot to mention:  S and QB not a draft need right now.

I agree with some of your needs, but like most I see CB as our biggest need.  If we can draft a lockdown CB to pare with White on a rookie contract, that will go a long way in helping get past KC in the playoffs. 

 

You make some good points.

 

Thanks for thd thoughtful post.

[HappyDays]

50 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

We will draft a tight end this year. Almost a given. But it will be rounds 3-5 not round 1 or 2.

 

Round 1 I agree but I think Trey McBride is a possibility in round 2 if he's still on the board.

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by HappyDays

[Yantha]

RB Breece Hall in round 1 

TE Trey McBride in round 2

Corner round 3

O-line round 4/5

 

Late round considerations:  WR, LB, DL, OT.  (WR is deep in this draft and we can get a speedy option in round 5)

 

Depends on how the board shapes up each round.

 

Honest to God I'm not a troll here.  I just see RB/TE/OL as a higher need than many of you.  CB is a huge need.  I just hope that there will be a post draft CB FA that becomes available.  It's unlikely but Beane really should have addressed this hole earlier IMO.

 

I'm not sure if I want the team going into the season counting on a rookie CB in a starting role (with a playoff game on the line).  

 

 

[Pete]

4 hours ago, Shake_My_Head said:

Yes, you're an outlier.

An outlier in LOOK AT ME posts 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Pete

[Yantha]

9 minutes ago, Pete said:

An outlier in LOOK AT ME posts 

Geez.... I'm just having a conversation here.  

 

Not enjoying the negativity.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Geez.... I'm just having a conversation here.  

 

Not enjoying the negativity.

Then make better posts

[Yantha]

Just disputing the "look at me" comment John.

[Mango]

3 hours ago, Yantha said:

Center

Runningback

DE

Corner

OT

Linebacker

WR

 

As for the "fatal flaw", I think what some are confusing here is that I don't expect an upgrade at every offensive position.  Just the ones at the top of my list.  My "needs" at the bottom (and you can see this in the OP explanation) are LOW DRAFT NEEDS (almost negligible, but worth mentioning).

 

Thanks again for taking some time to think about this instead of piling on.

 

Quite literally nobody is confusing your thoughts about upgrading every position with the entire team sucks. Nobody. 
 

Every single person here is highly critical of the fact that your front office priority list starts with our offensive center and ends with upgrading WR. 
 

The reasoning for each position group really isn’t relevant. Your argument is that Mitch Morse is either the worst starter or the weakest link on the entire roster. And that is not that Dane Jackson is CB1, or that if either Diggs or Davis get hurt the Bills start positioning Goodell to ban the forward pass. 
 

Of course if the team grabs a TE, LB, or IOL in the top 100 while addressing CB/WR in FA or via trade nobody is going to get angry. But the entire premise you keep trying to drive home is flawed from the get go. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Mango

[BillsFanForever19]

6 hours ago, Yantha said:

I was disappointed in that signing.

 

This speaks to something that drives me nuts with fans.

 

You can personally dislike a player we sign or extend. You can question whether they're the right guy or not. But when the moves are made, you have to take emotion out of it and look at things logically as to what role they were signed for. You don't sign people or extend people and then immediately cut them.

 

You don't like Mitch Morse? Well, they just gave him an extension. So they aren't going to cut him. They'd have done that instead of extending him if the plan were to replace him this season. And you're not going to pay him what he's being paid to be a backup.

 

Disappointed in the O.J. Howard signing? Well we only keep two Tight Ends active and the past couple years we've only had two Tight Ends on the 53. Dawson Knox isn't going anywhere this season. And we didn't sign Howard to immediately cut him or make him inactive. He signed for 3.5 million, 3.2 guaranteed. This isn't a Jacob Hollister situation (who signed for 1.1 with 100k guaranteed).

 

Not a fan of Rodger Saffold or question Ryan Bates ability to be a long term starter? Saffold is a Pro Bowler who signed for 6.2 million with 5.9 guaranteed. He's starting this season.

 

Bates was signed to be a starter in Chicago to a 17 million dollar contract over 4 seasons, 9 million guaranteed. While being a good contract for a starter, he wouldn't have paid that for a depth guy. And he wouldn't have taken the opportunity to start elsewhere away from him for less of an opportunity here. He's starting this season.

 

Long story short, you can dislike a move. But that doesn't mean you can just act like it didn't happen and expect Beane to do better, by your standards.

Edited April 17, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[Yantha]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

The reasoning for each position group really isn’t relevant. Your argument is that Mitch Morse is either the worst starter or the weakest link on the entire roster. And that is not that Dane Jackson is CB1, or that if either Diggs or Davis get hurt the Bills start positioning Goodell to ban the forward pass. 
 

Of course if the team grabs a TE, LB, or IOL in the top 100 while addressing CB/WR in FA or via trade nobody is going to get angry. But the entire premise you keep trying to drive home is flawed from the get go. 

I said in my OP that CB is likely at the top of the list that I posted......  And I didn't say anything about Siran Neal or Dane Jackson being better than Morse.  Both are most certainly NOT better than Morse....  I see Taron Johnson as a player with more upside actually.    We need to address CB in FA, and pick CB in the top 3 or 4 rounds.

[Simon Says]

I couldn't get through this without gagging 

[Yantha]

7 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

This speaks to something that drives me nuts with fans.

 

You can personally dislike a player we sign or extend. You can question whether they're the right guy or not. But when the moves are made, you have to take emotion out of it and look at things logically as to what role they were signed for. You don't sign people or extend people and then immediately cut them.

 

You don't like Mitch Morse? Well, they just gave him an extension. So they aren't going to cut him. They'd have done that instead of extending him if the plan were to replace him this season. And you're not going to pay him what he's being paid to be a backup.

 

Disappointed in the O.J. Howard signing? Well we only keep two Tight Ends active and the past couple years we've only had two Tight Ends on the 53. Dawson Knox isn't going anywhere this season. And we didn't sign Howard to immediately cut him or make him inactive. He signed for 3.5 million, 3.2 guaranteed. This isn't a Jacob Hollister situation (who signed for 1.1 with 100k guaranteed).

 

Not a fan of Rodger Saffold or question Ryan Bates ability to be a long term starter? Saffold is a Pro Bowler who signed for 6.2 million with 5.9 guaranteed. He's starting this season.

 

Bates was signed to be a starter in Chicago to a 17 million dollar contract over 4 seasons, 9 million guaranteed. While being a good contract for a starter, he wouldn't have paid that for a depth guy. And he wouldn't have taken the opportunity for him to start elsewhere away from him for less of an opportunity here. He's starting this season.

 

Long story short, you can dislike a move. But that doesn't mean you can just act like it didn't happen and expect Beane to do better, by your standards.

Nobody expects draftees to be immediate starters.  Even some first rounders need some time....  You draft for team building, continuity, and adding youth to aging positional groups.  If you are lucky enough to find an immediate, starting caliber upgrade, you are doing well, especially on a playoff caliber team like the bills.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Yantha

[Rochesterfan]

42 minutes ago, Yantha said:

RB Breece Hall in round 1 

TE Trey McBride in round 2

Corner round 3

O-line round 4/5

 

Late round considerations:  WR, LB, DL, OT.  (WR is deep in this draft and we can get a speedy option in round 5)

 

Depends on how the board shapes up each round.

 

Honest to God I'm not a troll here.  I just see RB/TE/OL as a higher need than many of you.  CB is a huge need.  I just hope that there will be a post draft CB FA that becomes available.  It's unlikely but Beane really should have addressed this hole earlier IMO.

 

I'm not sure if I want the team going into the season counting on a rookie CB in a starting role (with a playoff game on the line).  

 

 

 

Hall in the first would be terrible and there should be no way the Bills waste draft capital that way.

 

If you want hall - trade back 20 spots and have it - do not waste a 5th year option position by drafting a RB.  🤢

[Yantha]

2 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Hall in the first would be terrible and there should be no way the Bills waste draft capital that way.

 

If you want hall - trade back 20 spots and have it - do not waste a 5th year option position by drafting a RB.  🤢

Yes, I agree with a trade back, but not out of the first.  He'll be gone sooner than pick 45 IMO.

[BillsFanForever19]

20 minutes ago, Yantha said:

I said in my OP that CB is likely at the top of the list that I posted......  And I didn't say anything about Siran Neal or Dane Jackson being better than Morse.  Both are most certainly NOT better than Morse....  I see Taron Johnson as a player with more upside actually.    We need to address CB in FA, and pick CB in the top 3 or 4 rounds.

 

20 minutes ago, Yantha said:

 

With who? Steven Nelson and Stephon Gilmore (not that he was ever a real option) were signed by other teams recently. Those that are left are career journeyman or guys really long in the tooth. They're just a band aid and we'd just be pushing out having to Draft a legitimate starter to another season. 

 

And again, you have to think logically here. If this were the plan, we'd have attacked it in Free Agency. They aren't going to take a starting position and just say "eh, we'll just take whoever's left over after the Draft who will accept our low-ball offer bc they don't have a choice. In the meantime, we'll just let everyone get scooped up and take just anybody who's left".

 

And Beane is already paying Tre too CB money. So he's not going to turn around and pay top CB money on the other side too. Especially with the players who become FA's next season, when guys like Josh, Von, and Diggs' cap numbers rise significantly. 

 

A 3rd Round Pick and a Journeyman FA doesn't cut it. Especially when you consider Tre might not be available to start the season. We'll sign a guy for depth and to provide some help with Tre out. But it's not someone you rely on to start for this team long term and you're not going to pay them long term.

 

17 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Nobody expects draftees to be immediate starters.  Even some first rounders need some time....  You draft for team building, continuity, and adding youth to aging positional groups.  If you are lucky enough to find an immediate, starting caliber upgrade, you are doing well, especially on a playoff caliber team like the bills.

 

You mean like every CB that was drafted in Round 1 last season? They all started by Week 3 at the latest and are entrenched starters now. Or maybe like Tre White? Who we started from Day 1 after drafting him at 27. Guys taken in Round 1 are taken there for a reason. You start them. 

 

And you yourself question whether you start a 1st Round Rookie. So then what sense does it make to start a 3rd Round pick? With Tre out to start the season, even if we sign a Joe Haden type band-aid, in your scenario we're starting Dane Jackson or a 3rd Round pick on the other side. 

 

You don't ignore positions with gaping holes on the 53 to address positions you have to fill in a couple years. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[Rochesterfan]

13 minutes ago, Yantha said:

Yes, I agree with a trade back, but not out of the first.  He'll be gone sooner than pick 45 IMO.

 

Then you pass on him.  RB is a very low need - despite what you think.  
 

TE in the third or later.

 

CB/WR in first and maybe the second.

TE, RB, IOL - mid rounds.

 

Don’t waste high picks on low value positions.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Rochesterfan

[Yantha]

5 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

With who? Steven Nelson and Stefon Gilmore (not that he was ever a real option) were signed by other teams recently. Those that are left are career journeyman or guys really long in the tooth. They're just a band aid and we'd just be pushing out having to Draft a legitimate starter to another season. 

 

And again, you have to think logically here. If this were the plan, we'd have attacked it in Free Agency. They aren't going to take a starting position and just say "eh, we'll just take whoever's left over after the Draft who will accept our low-ball offer bc they don't have a choice. In the meantime, we'll just let everyone get scooped up and take just anybody who's left".

 

And Beane is already paying Tre too CB money. So he's not going to turn around and pay top CB money on the other side too. Especially with the players who become FA's next season, when guys like Josh, Von, and Diggs' cap numbers rise significantly. 

 

A 3rd Round Pick and a Journeyman FA doesn't cut it. Especially when you consider Tre might not be available to start the season. We'll sign a guy for depth and to provide some help with Tre out. But it's not someone you rely on to start for this team long term and you're not going to pay them long term.

Yeah I agree.  It's slim pickings out there for CBs.  Nobody's arguing that CB is a high draft need.  I just wished Beane landed a quality FA.  We only see the outcome.  We don't see how many OFFERS were made to land an FA CB.  Can't win them all (I'm assuming here though... that there were calls).

 

 

Just found this on PFF discussing potential post draft cap casualties.  If the draft board shaped up to draft OC high, Morse might be a cap casualty.  That's a big IF, but I'm not the only one thinking that the INTERIOR O-LINE needs to be addressed.

 

From PFF:

"BUFFALO BILLS: C MITCH MORSE 

Cut cap savings: $8,500,000
Cut dead money: $2,750,000

The Bills signed center Morse to a four-year, $44 million contract heading into quarterback Josh Allen’s second season, an important addition to help the young signal-caller make protection calls and oversee a high-octane offense. While Morse has been solid if unspectacular, he agreed to a pay cut prior to the 2021 season and followed that up with his lowest pass-blocking and run-blocking grades so far in Buffalo. 

Buffalo has made it clear that protecting Allen is its top priority going forward, but the $8.5 million in potential savings from releasing Morse may help accomplish that goal more than retaining him.  "