New Bills stadium deal is bad for taxpayers, according to Yahoo!

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

I swear I am not trying to confuse you.  I’ve made and repeated my point several times, to which you have responded.  Not sure where I  just lost you, but not sure what to add.

Well I guess we’re done here then. I’m trying to lend you some of my expertise on the subject matter, but I’m not having much luck. 

[SydneyBillsFan]

10 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

A reinforced concrete structure is not as easy to retrofit as you might think, especially if the steel is exposed to the elements and begins to rust. At some point it needs to be demolished. 

 

Correct.

 

Once excessive amounts of concrete cancer are evident, it's game over.

 

There are a range of concrete repair products that are actually very good (expensive - but good). However, these are suitable for relatively minor structural rectification works - I suspect that the structural issues with the old Ralph might be of a more substantial nature.

[Mr. WEO]

26 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Well I guess we’re done here then. I’m trying to lend you some of my expertise on the subject matter, but I’m not having much luck. 

I asked how your assessment regarding the cost of an extensive refurbishment (e.g. Arrowhead) as opposed to demolitionof the Ralph/new build   differs from that of  the firm PSE hired to assess for the same.  You didn’t offer one.  

[SoCal Deek]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I asked how your assessment regarding the cost of an extensive refurbishment (e.g. Arrowhead) as opposed to demolitionof the Ralph/new build   differs from that of  the firm PSE hired to assess for the same.  You didn’t offer one.  

I’m not going to speak to the details of this particular study, but as a guy who authors similar reports, they’re technical in nature but also subjective. It’s not like solving a math equation. It’ll cost something to remodel and preserve Rich stadium. It really all comes down to what do you have when you’re done versus constructing a new facility. For example, you’d have to spend a lot of money to fix the old one and yet still need to build the roof and the larger concourse areas. Add to that the cost and inconvenience of having to relocate during the reconstruction. So at some point you say ‘this isn’t worth the hassle’. I’m going to assume that point is now.

[Orlando Buffalo]

18 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

Correct.

 

Once excessive amounts of concrete cancer are evident, it's game over.

 

There are a range of concrete repair products that are actually very good (expensive - but good). However, these are suitable for relatively minor structural rectification works - I suspect that the structural issues with the old Ralph might be of a more substantial nature.

What I learned from the seaside condo collapse is that once a decent amount of the rebar metal gets wet it is difficult to save a structural because the rust can't be reversed, and is hard to really stop from spreading.

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m not going to speak to the details of this particular study, but as a guy who authors similar reports, they’re technical in nature but also subjective. It’s not like solving a math equation. It’ll cost something to remodel and preserve Rich stadium. It really all comes down to what do you have when you’re done versus constructing a new facility. For example, you’d have to spend a lot of money to fix the old one and yet still need to build the roof and the larger concourse areas. Add to that the cost and inconvenience of having to relocate during the reconstruction. So at some point you say ‘this isn’t worth the hassle’. I’m going to assume that point is now.

thanks. I suspected so but defer to you to confirm that’s likely the case

 

my guess is PSE commissioned the study so it could be dismissed immediately as an  option.  

[SoCal Deek]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

What I learned from the seaside condo collapse is that once a decent amount of the rebar metal gets wet it is difficult to save a structural because the rust can't be reversed, and is hard to really stop from spreading.

That’s essentially correct. It’s why I mentioned that these repairs are pretty complicated and thus very expensive. After a bit you’re pretty much replacing everything. We occasionally recommend that sort of repair but generally only if the structure is deemed historic. For example, major renovations have been done to both the Rose Bowl and LA Coliseum over the years, but it’s been due to the historic nature of these structures. 

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

thanks. I suspected so but defer to you to confirm that’s likely the case

 

my guess is PSE commissioned the study so it could be dismissed immediately as an  option.  

That happens sometimes for sure. As I said these reports are highly subjective. But that doesn’t negate the cost of the roof and the concourse buildings which will be some of the major costs…so I wouldn’t get too hung up on that theory. The seats themselves are chump change. Let’s wait to see what the new designs look like before passing judgement.

Edited April 19, 2022 by SoCal Deek

[SydneyBillsFan]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

What I learned from the seaside condo collapse is that once a decent amount of the rebar metal gets wet it is difficult to save a structural because the rust can't be reversed, and is hard to really stop from spreading.

 

There are some zinc-rich rebar primers that are actually very effective.

 

The determining factor in terms of their application is the quantity of rust on the rebar. Light surface rust - no problem. Heavy or flaking rust that has penetrated deep into the rebar - game over.

[Orlando Buffalo]

6 minutes ago, SydneyBillsFan said:

 

There are some zinc-rich rebar primers that are actually very effective.

 

The determining factor in terms of their application is the quantity of rust on the rebar. Light surface rust - no problem. Heavy or flaking rust that has penetrated deep into the rebar - game over.

Apparently seaside must have had the heavy version and no one wanted to be the one to call game over and force people out despite knowing the rust started well over 10 years prior to collapse. But I do wonder what version Buffalo had.