New Bills stadium deal is bad for taxpayers, according to Yahoo!

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, boater said:

Yet studies and photographs clearly show the upper deck about to collapse. You call that feasible for correction?

about to collapse? No. The fact that games were safe enough to hold a full crowd only months ago renders that ridiculous.

 

but if you read my post a little more closely, you would see I said “when it was feasible to do so”.  You even quoted it

 

lol wtf

[boater]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

about to collapse? No. The fact that games were safe enough to hold a full crowd only months ago renders that ridiculous.

 

but if you read my post a little more closely, you would see I said “when it was feasible to do so”.  You even quoted it

 

lol wtf

Some people can't accept being wrong on the internet. PS: about to collapse = 5 years in this instance, I apologize for not making that explicit. The upper deck has a life span of 5 years. Engineer inspections have proven it so.

 

Maybe that “when it was feasible to do so” gives you the wiggle room to be right. If so, touche.

[Doc]

I guess they could wait for it to collapse before doing something about it.  You know, just to be sure...

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, boater said:

Some people can't accept being wrong on the internet. PS: about to collapse = 5 years in this instance, I apologize for not making that explicit. The upper deck has a life span of 5 years. Engineer inspections have proven it so.

 

Maybe that “when it was feasible to do so” gives you the wiggle room to be right. If so, touche.

 

10 hours ago, Doc said:

I guess they could wait for it to collapse before doing something about it.  You know, just to be sure...

when it was feasible would have been some years ago.  Your histrionics over  impending “collapse” helps you obscure the obvious. Pointing out that it now is beyond repair is meaningless for the purpose of this discussion.  Other major remodeling projects didn’t wait so long as 50 years you both know,  so you understand.  

[ALF]

I think the County will insist Terry pick up the cost to renovate or replace the Key Bank Center , Sabres home. As long as the Bill's fans get a new stadium we are happy campers.

[SoCal Deek]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

when it was feasible would have been some years ago.  Your histrionics over  impending “collapse” helps you obscure the obvious. Pointing out that it now is beyond repair is meaningless for the purpose of this discussion.  Other major remodeling projects didn’t wait so long as 50 years you both know,  so you understand.  

A reinforced concrete structure is not as easy to retrofit as you might think, especially if the steel is exposed to the elements and begins to rust. At some point it needs to be demolished. 

[Doc]

12 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

A reinforced concrete structure is not as easy to retrofit as you might think, especially if the steel is exposed to the elements and begins to rust. At some point it needs to be demolished. 

Well, just so you understand, he’s an engineer so he knows the time to renovate was within the last 7 years…

[crackerjack man]

On 4/15/2022 at 11:13 AM, BillsFan4 said:

From the headline of the article I thought this guy actually studied the details of the deal but clearly he hasn’t if he doesn’t even know that the state is no longer responsible for maintenance costs. Or game day operating costs (like they were before).

 

It looks like it’s just a lazily written article that just rehashes all the same old generic arguments against taxpayer funded stadiums without actually looking at any of the details of this particular deal.

 

https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/poloncarz-erie-county-no-longer-in-the-football-business

 

Pretty sure the state now is picking up the operating costs (from the county). The state revenues are largely from downstate and will have a negligible impact on most people around here. It's really not too bad of a deal for the county. The county spends a grotesque amount of money (+/-$40 million per year) on suburban and rural roads (by far the most in the state). It is repulsive. Unlike 90% of those roads, at least I will go to the stadium!

[Doc]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

A reinforced concrete structure is not as easy to retrofit as you might think, especially if the steel is exposed to the elements and begins to rust. At some point it needs to be demolished. 

 

Just so you understand, WEO is an engineer, has studied the stadium and knows for a fact that the time to renovate the upper deck was within the last 7-1/2 years...

Edited April 19, 2022 by Doc

[ddaryl]

Now that the deal is signed sealed and delivered for Buffalo.. I do hope this deal is a straw that breaks the camels back for future stadium projects in other cities and states.

tax breaks/deals for billionaires and corporate America, heavily compensated lodging for sports team owners all should stop IMO.... 

But I sure am a hypocrite because I am glad we got our stadium deal and the Bills are locked in for my lifetime

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Just so you understand, WEO is an engineer, has studied the stadium and knows for a fact that the time to renovate the upper deck was within the last 7-1/2 years...

Good to know. I’m glad there’s someone else on here with that type of significant professional experience. 😉

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

A reinforced concrete structure is not as easy to retrofit as you might think, especially if the steel is exposed to the elements and begins to rust. At some point it needs to be demolished. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Doc said:

Well, just so you understand, he’s an engineer so he knows the time to renovate was within the last 7 years…

 

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Just so you understand, WEO is an engineer, has studied the stadium and knows for a fact that the time to renovate the upper deck was within the last 7-1/2 years...

 

Perseveration is often the first sign, doc...

 

Anyway, 7.5 years ago, any issues with the structure were well known when Pegula bought the place.  Yet, despite the well documented FACT that it is "about to collapse", it has been deemed safe for use until at least 4 years from now, whenever the new place is finished.  Maybe you and boater can position yourselves outside the gates for each home gate until then, warning people against entering the teetering wreck.

 

Anyway, PSE (based on engineers' report) recently said it would cost a billion to renovate the current stadium---if you disagree, take it up with them.  However, we can assume it would have been significantly less if planned 7.5 years ago.

Edited April 19, 2022 by Mr. WEO

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Perseveration is often the first sign, doc...

 

Anyway, 7.5 years ago, any issues with the structure were well known when Pegula bought the place.  Yet, despite the well documented FACT that it is "about to collapse", it has been deemed safe for use until at least 4 years from now, whenever the new place is finished.  Maybe you and boater can position yourselves outside the gates for each home gate until then, warning people against entering the teetering wreck.

 

Anyway, PSE (based on engineers' report) recently said it would cost a billion to renovate the current stadium---if you disagree, take it up with them.  However, we can assume it would have been significantly less if planned 7.5 years ago.

 

Oh, the hypocrisy!  You're still trying to play engineer.  But it takes more than assumptions. 

[SoCal Deek]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

 

Perseveration is often the first sign, doc...

 

Anyway, 7.5 years ago, any issues with the structure were well known when Pegula bought the place.  Yet, despite the well documented FACT that it is "about to collapse", it has been deemed safe for use until at least 4 years from now, whenever the new place is finished.  Maybe you and boater can position yourselves outside the gates for each home gate until then, warning people against entering the teetering wreck.

 

Anyway, PSE (based on engineers' report) recently said it would cost a billion to renovate the current stadium---if you disagree, take it up with them.  However, we can assume it would have been significantly less if planned 7.5 years ago.

With all due respect Mr. Weo...of the two of us....which of us is a long-practicing Architect who specializes in large public projects...like stadiums?  Me, or you?

[Mattymafia]

On 4/15/2022 at 10:23 AM, What a Tuel said:

 

300 million over 7 years doesn't seem like a lot and i doubt that is even net income. Projected over 30 years it might barely cover a new stadium? 

 

Meanwhile they keep the team here and NY/Erie County rake in the tax revenue from players contracts, coach contracts, organizational payroll, ticket sales, merchandise sales, etc etc etc. 

 

The fairest way is a split between public and private funding which is what they did. Yes the state paid a bit more but they dont have the leverage being a small market team.

That is legitimately the smartest way to think about this. The player taxes over 30 years pays out way more than the states stadium costs.

[Doc]

19 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

With all due respect Mr. Weo...of the two of us....which of us is a long-practicing Architect who specializes in large public projects...like stadiums?  Me, or you?

 

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Oh, the hypocrisy!  You're still trying to play engineer.  But it takes more than assumptions. 

 

3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

With all due respect Mr. Weo...of the two of us....which of us is a long-practicing Architect who specializes in large public projects...like stadiums?  Me, or you?

I’m no engineer, that’s for sure.
 

Instead, as posted above, I was quoting PSE leadership who was quoting the firm that assessed the current stadium.  They said it could be done for the price they mentioned. 
 

Why don’t either of you tell us all how your survey of that property came to the opposite conclusion that theirs did.  

 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I’m no engineer, that’s for sure.
 

Instead, as posted above, I was quoting PSE leadership who was quoting the firm that assessed the current stadium.  They said it could be done for the price they mentioned. 
 

Why don’t either of you tell us all how your survey of that property came to the opposite conclusion that theirs did.  

 

I have no idea where you’re going with any of this. Is there a point you’re trying to make? 

[T&C]

9 hours ago, ALF said:

I think the County will insist Terry pick up the cost to renovate or replace the Key Bank Center , Sabres home. As long as the Bill's fans get a new stadium we are happy campers.

I don't live in WNY right now but it seems that they spent a Lot of money on development in Buffalo awhile back, I forgot what they did but for some reason a renovation of the arena is stuck in my mind. Maybe it was the area around the arena.

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I have no idea where you’re going with any of this. Is there a point you’re trying to make? 

I swear I am not trying to confuse you.  I’ve made and repeated my point several times, to which you have responded.  Not sure where I  just lost you, but not sure what to add.