Ned Flanders Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Pitched seven perfect innings vs. Twins today while throwing only 80 pitches...can you imagine Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson or Greg Maddux if they were told to sit down after 80 pitches? I get the abbreviated spring training and all, but this is part of what's driving people away...I'm almost at that point. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockpile233 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Honestly pathetic. It’s one thing if his pitch count is out of control and, yes I also understand the abbreviated spring training issue, but 7 perfect with only 80 pitches? How do you not let the guy go out for the 8th? It’s sadly where the game is at. I don’t even blame the manager, GMs run everything in baseball. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) Yea baseball is losing out on these moments b.c the season is too long. Shorten the season, pitchers pitch less games and can go for longer. Season should be 100 games max. Edited April 13, 2022 by TBBills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 So, throw a guy out there for more innings after an injury plagued season, multiple injuries over the last few seasons, a shortened spring training ramp-up, for a guy that is in his mid 30s? Maybe I should remind some of you folks about the story of a once dominant pitcher named Johan Santana. The Mets ruined his career going for a no-hitter. The best pitcher in baseball at the time and they ruined him. The goal is to win as many games as possible. Not get perfect games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Just now, Mark80 said: So, throw a guy out there for more innings after an injury plagued season, multiple injuries over the last few seasons, a shortened spring training ramp-up, for a guy that is in his mid 30s? Maybe I should remind some of you folks about the story of a once dominant pitcher named Johan Santana. The Mets ruined his career going for a no-hitter. The best pitcher in baseball at the time and they ruined him. The goal is to win as many games as possible. Not get perfect games. Sorry but Mets stories don't count. Mets ruin everyone... 1 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark80 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 minute ago, TBBills said: Sorry but Mets stories don't count. Mets ruin everyone... Fair enough. Lol. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 My gut reaction was, "what a bunch of bull####." But this is a guy who the Dodgers are probably counting on winning 20-ish games when he pitches. He has to stay healthy in order for that to happen. He's old. He's injury prone. Abbreviated spring training. And ... yes ... analytics have pretty much replaced actual in-game management. Listening to the Mets announcers, they made it sound like it was a mutual decision. That Kershaw knew he couldn't go all the way. That makes sense to me. My guess is that if this was their 4th or 5th starter, or some spot starter, that there would have been no pitch count. That simply wasn't the case here. 7 minutes ago, Mark80 said: So, throw a guy out there for more innings after an injury plagued season, multiple injuries over the last few seasons, a shortened spring training ramp-up, for a guy that is in his mid 30s? Maybe I should remind some of you folks about the story of a once dominant pitcher named Johan Santana. The Mets ruined his career going for a no-hitter. The best pitcher in baseball at the time and they ruined him. The goal is to win as many games as possible. Not get perfect games. And it wasn't really even a no-hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockpile233 Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) I can’t argue with the analytics side. There is so much out about pitch counts, injuries, etc. I can’t argue that hard about the decision in itself. I think what the OP is venting about is how analytics has cut out a lot of opportunities for special moments. I’m a fan at the end of the day. Cutting out more and more opportunities for these moments and you’re left with a very long, dry, and boring season in a sport that is hemorrhaging fans for years. Furthermore, and I know I may get dragged for this, but if Kershaw was ok with coming out of the game here it further confirms my long doubts on him. His playoff splits tell the story. One of the best pitchers of our time, but he’s not the assassin type competitor that distinguishes the true greats. He’s always seemed soft to me. May be unfair but has been my opinion for a while on him. Edited April 13, 2022 by Rockpile233 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Rockpile233 said: I can’t argue with the analytics side. There is so much out about pitch counts, injuries, etc. I can’t argue that hard about the decision in itself. I think what the OP is venting about is how analytics has cut out a lot of opportunities for special moments. I’m a fan at the end of the day. Cutting out more and more opportunities for these moments and you’re left with a very long, dry, and boring season in a sport that is hemorrhaging fans for years. Furthermore, and I know I may get dragged for this, but if Kershaw was ok without coming out of the game here it further confirms my long doubts on him. His playoff splits tell the story. One of the best pitchers of our time, but he’s not the assassin type competitor that distinguishes the true greats. He’s always seemed soft to me. May be unfair but has been my opinion for a while on him. I hate the Dodgers more than I hate al Qaeda. But I've always loved Kershaw. I think the guy is an absolute beast. I agree with the knock on his historical post-season stats. But "soft," is the last word I'd associate him with, myself. Not gonna drag you for your opinion; There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy; there's only you and me and we just disagree. Edited April 13, 2022 by Gugny 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBBills Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 Contracts for pitchers are about to have pitching rules in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Ned Flanders said: Pitched seven perfect innings vs. Twins today while throwing only 80 pitches...can you imagine Nolan Ryan, Bob Gibson or Greg Maddux if they were told to sit down after 80 pitches? I get the abbreviated spring training and all, but this is part of what's driving people away...I'm almost at that point. from what I read, Kershaw wanted to come out after 7. That makes it even weirder, IMO. LeBron load management! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Fan Posted April 13, 2022 Share Posted April 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Rockpile233 said: I can’t argue with the analytics side. There is so much out about pitch counts, injuries, etc. I can’t argue that hard about the decision in itself. I think what the OP is venting about is how analytics has cut out a lot of opportunities for special moments. I’m a fan at the end of the day. Cutting out more and more opportunities for these moments and you’re left with a very long, dry, and boring season in a sport that is hemorrhaging fans for years. Furthermore, and I know I may get dragged for this, but if Kershaw was ok with coming out of the game here it further confirms my long doubts on him. His playoff splits tell the story. One of the best pitchers of our time, but he’s not the assassin type competitor that distinguishes the true greats. He’s always seemed soft to me. May be unfair but has been my opinion for a while on him. Kershaw I dont really know enough about to have strong feelings on way or another But I mean I get what you're saying. My hope is within the next few years managers are going to see how ridiculous it is to base analytics as gospel for everything versus the human element/emotions/drive, what not. To me an ideal manager today in baseball is someone who respects statistics but isn't a slave to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Flanders Posted April 14, 2022 Author Share Posted April 14, 2022 16 hours ago, Gugny said: But this is a guy who the Dodgers are probably counting on winning 20-ish games when he pitches. He has to stay healthy in order for that to happen. The days of the 20 game winner are over, sadly. I remember when the Orioles had four of 'em in 1971. Now you're lucky to get four 20 game winners in a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Just now, Ned Flanders said: The days of the 20 game winner are over, sadly. I remember when the Orioles had four of 'em in 1971. Now you're lucky to get four 20 game winners in a decade. Poorly worded on my part. I meant winning 20 of his starts; not necessarily him getting 20 wins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 17 hours ago, Gugny said: I hate the Dodgers more than I hate al Qaeda. But I've always loved Kershaw. I think the guy is an absolute beast. I agree with the knock on his historical post-season stats. But "soft," is the last word I'd associate him with, myself. Not gonna drag you for your opinion; There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy; there's only you and me and we just disagree. Did you know he went to HS with Matthew Stafford? One other neat sports fact, Fitzmagic went to Haavard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 16 hours ago, TBBills said: Contracts for pitchers are about to have pitching rules in it. Interesting... Will the other teams be able to read these pitching rules? Or... Are contracts private? ...Will have to piecemeal, figure out the rules on the field??? See what I am getting at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, TBBills said: Yea baseball is losing out on these moments b.c the season is too long. Shorten the season, pitchers pitch less games and can go for longer. Season should be 100 games max. In 1892 & 1904, MLB teams had 154 games. There were fewer here and there in between maybe due to the number of teams that folded(?). But if they were playing that many way back then, 162 games in the modern day with faster transportation and training & medical, then I see zero reason to contract the season like that. Baseball lives in tradition and that’s a big part of its appeal, at least for me. It’s kinda a catch-22 for all the reasons cited. If I’m Kershaw and a fan, I’d probably be upset / disappointed, but… 🤷🏻♂️. It’s a judgement call at this point of the season and given the givens. I would’ve let him continue because how often does it happen. Edited April 14, 2022 by UConn James 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 6 minutes ago, UConn James said: In 1892 & 1904, MLB teams had 154 games. There were fewer here and there in between. But if they were playing that many way back then, 162 games in the modern day with faster transportation and training & medical, then I see zero reason to contract the season like that. Baseball lives in tradition and that’s a big part of its appeal, at least for me. No teams on West Coast. I don't think transportation was a factor. With planes and West Coast, probably just as bad as long train ride... Which they probably had a sleeper... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 18 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said: from what I read, Kershaw wanted to come out after 7. That makes it even weirder, IMO. LeBron load management! That is weird. A perfect game is a pretty special thing--much more special than a no hitter. Heck, hitting for the cycle is much more special than a no-hitter, but no one ever talks about those or celebrates them as much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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