Deshaun Watson better than Allen?

[DCofNC]

Isn’t it nice to not be debating if Tyrod is a top 15 guy? 
 

There’s going to be somebody who likes somebody better than somebody else, no matter what.  I don’t think there’s a sane person in the world that wouldn’t agree, when you talk about the best QBs in the league, Allen is in the conversation.  When you are talking about a guy to build your team around, Allen might be the favorite.  
 

To me, Herbert is a better version of year 2 JA, a lesser version of year 3 JA, but the guy looks to be on the trajectory to be a great.  Maholmes has had amazing success, Burrow looks damn good, Aaaaaaaaaron is always an MVP candidate, Brady is the Goat, Wilson has been a great when healthy (last year was not the norm) and Watson was a stat machine, albeit on a team that was getting blown out often, so idk what to make of him.  So pick the flavor you like.  JA is one of the very best in the business and still has room to grow and the attitude to want to, that’s awesome.  
 

To me, you have to look at the “would you trade them straight up for the other guy?”  My answer is, I think most GMs would say there is nobody they would trade straight up for Allen or Maholmes, to me, all the others fall under, the “damn right I’d make that deal” category.  So in terms of most valuable, it’s those 2, followed closely by Herbert, and Burrow. I’d bet you would find at least 50% of GMs that would swap Herbert or Burrow for Allen or Maholmes.  The others are all trade-able.  Age plays a part, stupid contract plays a part, injuries play a part, but when you look at it, nobody would consider trading Allen or Maholmes, unless they just preferred the other for some reason and would swap only for the other guy.  They are both dynamic playmakers with enough body of success to prove they are great.  Herbert has to step up and do it at a truly high level all year, Burrow though really good, not nearly as scary as the others and the others have either been traded or dangled for trade, or are 40+, that’s all you need to know. 
 

I’ll say this, there’s nobody I’d trade Allen for.  He’s just as good as Maholmes and has done it with less weapons.  Side note, way less drama, that’s my guy.   
 

I’m sure there are fan boys of the other guys that think their guy is better, but objectively, nah.

[The Wiz]

7 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Watson gets no respect at this board; I think he's quite a good QB.

He's in no way better than Josh Allen though!  Nor is Burrow or Herbert, at least yet.

 

Brady has done enough to be ranked No. 1, almost as an honorary title, until he retires.

 

Rodgers is 2 (or vice versa).

But no, you wouldn't trade Allen for either of them NOW, when you consider the age differential!

 

 

It's not really about not respecting Watson, he is definitely a very good QB.

 

The question that was asked to the cast was "who are the top 5 QBs right now?"

 

Watson hasn't played in 18 months.  Could very well be out another season depending on what happens with his legal issues and is also going to a new team that doesn't play in a dome for 50% of their games. 

 

So, he's a question mark as a top 5 "right now", JMO.

Edited April 12, 2022 by The Wiz

[Greg S]

Just now, The Wiz said:

It's not really about not respecting Watson, he is definitely a very good QB.

 

The question that was asked to the cast was "who are the top 5 QBs right now?"

 

Watson hasn't played in 18 months.  Could very well be out another season depending on what happens with his legal issues and is also going to a new team that doesn't play in a dome for 50% of their games. 

 

So right now, he's a question mark as a top 5 "right now", JMO.

 

The Texans don't play in a dome.

[LeGOATski]

....and we're 5 pages in already. Thanks Keyshawn!

 

[jamiezzz]

I can care 2 craps about what these washed up players have to say.  Whether  it's opinion or not, facts or no facts.  We have our Franchise QB that works for Buffalo.  F them all.

[billybrew1]

1 hour ago, Success said:

Did anyone see that heated debate on First Take just now? They were debating if Allen is a top 5 QB in the league.  Keyshawn had him behind Brady, Rogers, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert & Watson.

 

I actually have issues w/ all of those names being ranked ahead of Allen.  I get the deference for Brady, but would anyone really want him over Allen RIGHT NOW?  Rogers I can understand more.  Herbert has done nothing in the league.  Burrow looks to be very good, but hasn't shown nearly the versatility & clutch play that Allen has (imo).

 

But Watson?

 

I don't really get it - not just Keyshawn's take, but a still fairly large group of pundits who can't seem to break away from what they thought of Allen in the draft, or his rookie season.  I get that it's not that important, and in general, prefer it when the Bills are disrespected, but it just seems like I'm living on a different planet than some of these guys.

 

EDIT:  he also had Mahomes ahead of Allen (which is one I completely get, though I think is closer than most)

Allen is easily the best QB in the league right now. If it wasn’t for our knuckle-headed coaches he would have one notch on the belt already. What a gyp! I kind of hope we get Jameson or Watson in round one and let our OCs (we have four former or current OCs) tear defenses apart…. Could you imagine, Watson then Walker? That’s some cereal speed! LOL, I hope we do it. Sign Gilmore draft a good corner in the third…. If there’s a corner in fourth take him too… Now that’s an offense designed to win Super Bowls without the need of a great defense (which is rare).

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Greg S said:

 

The Texans don't play in a dome.

Well they can close the roof making it a dome lol. I don't know how many times they have done that though if any 

[The Wiz]

3 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

The Texans don't play in a dome.

 

Just now, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Well they can close the roof making it a dome lol. I don't know how many times they have done that though if any 

Retractable roof, dome.  Either way, compared to open air in Cleveland I'm sure it is a big difference (especially late in the season).

[78thealltimegreat]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Its all so subjective, but outside of my fandom, I'd try to put together an objective list that looks like:

 

Brady

Rodgers

Mahomes

Allen

Burrow

 

The first 3 all have SB victories, so they have an advantage. I've seen lists that have Allen #3 behind Brady and Rodgers.

 

Allen #1 after this season tho.

Seriously you have Rogers? He sees a 49ers jersey  and turns into a pumpkin 

Edited April 12, 2022 by 78thealltimegreat

[Man with No Name]

3 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

The Texans don't play in a dome.

They do play in a dome, and they very rarely open it. they went 6 years without opening it at one point. 

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Well they can close the roof making it a dome lol. I don't know how many times they have done that though if any 

 

 I didn't even know they had a roof to close. Every Texans home game I have seen was open air. Of course the weather doesn't get all that bad in Houston either. Maybe hot but that's about it.

[78thealltimegreat]

People need to remember Johnson was a Jet he absolutely despises the Bills I’m surprised he didn’t have Zach Wilson 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Greg S said:

 

 I didn't even know they had a roof to close. Every Texans home game I have seen was open air. Of course the weather doesn't get all that bad in Houston either. Maybe hot but that's about it.

Yeah I always knew they had the retractable roof, but just didn't pay enough attention to them to be sure how often they closed it. But yeah, kinda weird teams in places with mostly nice weather play in domes

[Shaw66]

28 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

What makes you believe this?? I see nothing that makes one come to that conclusion. Looking back when Watson did take off with the ball and comparing to what we have seen Allen do running, there's absolutely nothing there to come to this conclusion. 

 

If anything Allen has all the "jaw dropping, amazing" plays making one question if he's human or not. I'm not saying Watson isn't a good runner, just have no idea where you believe he is better than Allen.

I don't know how old this video - it doesn't have his great scramble that won the playoff game against the Bills - but it's tough to deny how well he runs the ball.  https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=529136024701547

[billybrew1]

12 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Isn’t it nice to not be debating if Tyrod is a top 15 guy? 
 

There’s going to be somebody who likes somebody better than somebody else, no matter what.  I don’t think there’s a sane person in the world that wouldn’t agree, when you talk about the best QBs in the league, Allen is in the conversation.  When you are talking about a guy to build your team around, Allen might be the favorite.  
 

To me, Herbert is a better version of year 2 JA, a lesser version of year 3 JA, but the guy looks to be on the trajectory to be a great.  Maholmes has had amazing success, Burrow looks damn good, Aaaaaaaaaron is always an MVP candidate, Brady is the Goat, Wilson has been a great when healthy (last year was not the norm) and Watson was a stat machine, albeit on a team that was getting blown out often, so idk what to make of him.  So pick the flavor you like.  JA is one of the very best in the business and still has room to grow and the attitude to want to, that’s awesome.  
 

To me, you have to look at the “would you trade them straight up for the other guy?”  My answer is, I think most GMs would say there is nobody they would trade straight up for Allen or Maholmes, to me, all the others fall under, the “damn right I’d make that deal” category.  So in terms of most valuable, it’s those 2, followed closely by Herbert, and Burrow. I’d bet you would find at least 50% of GMs that would swap Herbert or Burrow for Allen or Maholmes.  The others are all trade-able.  Age plays a part, stupid contract plays a part, injuries play a part, but when you look at it, nobody would consider trading Allen or Maholmes, unless they just preferred the other for some reason and would swap only for the other guy.  They are both dynamic playmakers with enough body of success to prove they are great.  Herbert has to step up and do it at a truly high level all year, Burrow though really good, not nearly as scary as the others and the others have either been traded or dangled for trade, or are 40+, that’s all you need to know. 
 

I’ll say this, there’s nobody I’d trade Allen for.  He’s just as good as Maholmes and has done it with less weapons.  Side note, way less drama, that’s my guy.   
 

I’m sure there are fan boys of the other guys that think their guy is better, but objectively, nah.

Herbert hasn’t shown the ability yet to make something out of nothing. He is not athletic enough nor powerful enough to extend plays like Allen does. Just wait if our line is better from week one on, what Allen will do…there will be no more jax games. He will be unstoppable. Just wanted to add that no QB is nfl history has had protection like Tom Brady. It was ridiculous how well he was protected.

[clearwater cadet]

Ranking are like #######, everyone got one, and most are full of crap.  I'm happy with Josh, and would not trade him for anyone on that list.

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't know how old this video - it doesn't have his great scramble that won the playoff game against the Bills - but it's tough to deny how well he runs the ball.  https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=529136024701547

I didn't deny he runs the ball well. I specifically referred to your statement that he ran the ball better than Allen. That, I did deny. There's nothing at all that suggest he is and simply have no idea what makes you think he is. 

 

If anything, comparing the 2 as runners, everything points to Allen being better running the ball...

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

I didn't deny he runs the ball well. I specifically referred to your statement that he ran the ball better than Allen. That, I did deny. There's nothing at all that suggest he is and simply have no idea what makes you think he is. 

 

If anything, comparing the 2 as runners, everything points to Allen being better running the ball...

Your opinion and mine.  I'm okay with it.  

[Success]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

I don’t understand the obsession with Burrow...I get that he is good and was taken #1... but people just act like he is the ‘second coming’...I don’t see it...

 

100% agree on this.  He's a nice QB, but he hasn't shown anything near what Mahomes & Allen have shown so far. I don't see how anyone objectively could put Burrow ahead of either of those guys.

 

[Shaw66]

7 minutes ago, clearwater cadet said:

I'm happy with Josh, and would not trade him for anyone on that list.

And that is the only point worth talking about.  Frankly, I think ten or fifteen years from now, people won't be debating whether he's in the top 5 in the league.  They'll be debating whether he's in the top 5 all time.   

 

The experts always said he had a high ceiling; they just debated whether he ever could overcome all the flaws they thought they saw.   Now it's only question of how hard he's going to hit his head on the ceiling.