Which players on defense are you moving on from or releasing?

[intimidatortj]

50 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Warren Sapp doesn't play 60% of snaps in Buffalo either.  The talent Edmunds and Oliver possess are harder to replace imo than Poyer.  Saftey is not a premier position.  Imo, it comes down to what Poyer wants.  If he takes a team friendly deal sure you can bring back everyone.  If he wants top safety money than imo thats too much.  Dont get me wrong I love Poyer and everything he does for the defense.  At a point players start to decline.  Teams that have had sustained success NE, Gb, Pit for example get off vetran players earlier than most.  Buffalo is going to need to consider that model.  Otherwise you look around and are expensive and old without much options.

 

Exactly.  Good point.   Bill Belichick has traditionally traded a player "early".  Probably one year earlier than other teams might.   Green Bay, Pittsburgh and Baltimore know it is the NFL...not for long...and they build it into their process and draft.

 

I get it. I love Poyer, etc.  But if there is a stud safety in the draft you can get in the 2nd round and pay him only $2 million a year, you need to consider pulling the trigger.  That frees up $7-8 million in Cap for next year.    Ditto if there is a good MLB (Chad Muma?) to draft this year and get him on a $2 million a year contract.  That might save you $12 million next year.    Plus you set yourself up well for 2024 and 2025 and 2026.

Edited April 12, 2022 by intimidatortj

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Milano was better than average last year.  

Really? He had a higher tackle number because he was healthy. He had no INT, no forced fumbles, and 3 sacks. He did have a nice number of tackles for loss.  Again not bad numbers but nothing special.  I really like Milano and historically he has made far more impact plays than Edmunds. But last year was pretty ho hum

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Really? He had a higher tackle number because he was healthy. He had no INT, no forced fumbles, and 3 sacks. He did have a nice number of tackles for loss.  Again not bad numbers but nothing special.  I really like Milano and historically he has made far more impact plays than Edmunds. But last year was pretty ho hum

Really.  Watch games Ethan.  He wasn’t an average Lb last year.  He was better than average and there is no doubt.  Stop

[Patrick Duffy]

3 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

Still on paper Diggs got top 3 or 4 money.  Von same thing.  White aswell.  Poyer very well could want that.  And he would have every right to ask for it. 

Of course there's a possibility. I just don't see it myself.  Like Diggs, imo his relationship with Hyde and this entire team along with wanting to be a Buffalo Bill knowing a ring is closer than ever factors in more than some think.

 

Nothing about this leads me to believe Poyer would not be reasonable 

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Of course there's a possibility. I just don't see it myself.  Like Diggs, imo his relationship with Hyde and this entire team along with wanting to be a Buffalo Bill knowing a ring is closer than ever factors in more than some think.

 

Nothing about this leads me to believe Poyer would not be reasonable 

Agreed.  I don’t think he wants top 5 S money.  Imo, he wants some guaranteed money to protect his family. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by NewEra

[Kwai San]

Boggles my mind that we are STILL having the Edmunds debate.  Folks he is NOT the run thumper YOU want.  He is however, as it seems, the MLB that McD and Beane want.

 

As some English chap likes to sing - "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime you'll find, you get what you need."

 

Just saying.....

[Patrick Duffy]

30 minutes ago, Dopey said:

Sheneneh was a trip!🤣🤣

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, intimidatortj said:

In 2023 the Buffalo Bills will have a lot of defensive starters on pretty hefty contracts.
This is going to have an impact on the draft this month.   Beane needs to plan ahead.

 

Let's assume Beane wants to keep Tremaine and has to pay him $14 million a year, for 2023, 2024 and beyond.

Did you know the Bills Cap Hit for Matt Milano is $13 million in 2023 and $13 million for 2024?
And Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde.   Do you pay them $11 million each, for 2023 and 2024?
Ed Oliver is $10 million a year just for 2023 and will be higher for 2024.
Tre White is costing $ 15-16 million / year.
Von Miller is $18 million and $21 million in 2023 & 2024.

 

To stay under the Cap long term, you need some starters making $2-3 million a year.  You need some players on rookie contracts.  

Honestly, signing Von Miller has made it almost a certainty some of the above players won't be on the roster/payroll in 2023.

 

So who would you move on from?  Who do you trade Or let go in Free Agency after 2022?

 

 

Honestly, I think it has a lot to do with how they play this year in some of those cases.

1. Edmunds - With the revamped DL this year, it could set Edmunds up for his best season yet.  We have more speed, more beef, and better closers in front of him now, that always makes the MLBs job easier.  So what he does this season will be interesting, does he step his game up or is it more of the same?  And the bigger question too is if he does have his best season, what will that do to his price tag if they do want to resign him.  
2. Poyer - I think they are already planning for life after Poyer potentially given the number of safeties they seem to have spoken to or met with in this draft.  The combination of his age and price tag I think could make him a cap casualty.  However, the odds for him staying go up if we don't resign Edmunds.
3. Oliver - Coming off his best season as a pro, he could be in line for an even better season.  Oliver is at that point where this is probably the year he proves he is worth resigning and paying to keep long term or not.  And he is really set up now to have his best year yet with our new revamped DL looking so promising overall.  So he is another guy whose future I think is in how he follows up his breakout season last year.  

Now you have other guys who are already under contract in Hyde, White, Milano, and Miller.  Personally, I don't know what kind of cap ramifications moving on from any of them would have, so hard to say if they would consider moving on early from either of those guys without knowing that.  But if I had to guess, I think these 4 guys got a good chance to stick around.  Miller just signed, so obvious he is here a few years.  Hyde I think there is a good chance he will see the end of his extension (2 more years).  White isn't going anywhere as long he is gets back to at least close to what he was before the injury, and Milano I would think sees the end of his extension too, especially if they don't keep Edmunds.  With the cap rising so much next year the salaries of Hyde, Milano, and White are going to be seen as good deals compared to what some of the FA's are going to be getting of similar quality players I suspect.  

 

Likely leaves:  Poyer

Likely stays:  Oliver

Coin flip as of today:  Edmunds

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Kwai San said:

Boggles my mind that we are STILL having the Edmunds debate.  Folks he is NOT the run thumper YOU want.  He is however, as it seems, the MLB that McD and Beane want.

 

As some English chap likes to sing - "You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime you'll find, you get what you need."

 

Just saying.....

As of now, it doesn’t appear that Edmunds is the MLB that McB wants to pay…..or he would’ve been paid….no?  Diggs had 2 years left on his deal….he was paid.  While edmunds is playing 2022 on a cap hit that might be higher than his future aav.  Based on McBs tendencies to date, he’d be locked up by now if they really wanted him  imo.  There’s still time for it to happen, but the lack of an extension could have some meaning to it.  
 

I don’t think anyone wants a “thumper”…. Rather a guy that makes more impact plays, has better instincts for the position and processes quicker than edmunds does 

[H2o]

Tre isn't going anywhere unless there is a significant fall off in his play after the knee injury. Milano was our best LB last season, much better and more consistent than Edmunds. Milano won't be getting axed. Von Miller will be here for at least 3 years because of the guaranteed $$$. Hopefully there is at least one, if not multiple Lombardi's that come home in that time. Oliver will at least be here to play out the 5th year option in 2023 if nothing else. We have a bunch of 1 year deals along the DL, Edmunds in his 5th year option, and Poyer in the last year of his deal. The two I think are gone after this year are both Poyer and Edmunds. Poyer because I don't see Beane prioritizing a S over 30 with a big $$$ contract. Edmunds because he will price himself out of what they are willing to pay. If the light switch finally comes on for Edmunds, which I highly doubt, then the Franchise Tag is always an option as well. But Poyer and Edmunds are the most logical and likely players we let walk. 

[NewEra]

12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

It wouldn’t be wise to invest all that cap into both Oliver and Edmunds IMO.

I agree.  At this point, I don’t think it’s wise to extend Edmunds based on his position value + projected price tag + performance. That said, I think that they’ll likely see how Tremaine does with the revamped DL and go from there.  

[LABILLBACKER]

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

As of now, it doesn’t appear that Edmunds is the MLB that McB wants to pay…..or he would’ve been paid….no?  Diggs had 2 years left on his deal….he was paid.  While edmunds is playing 2022 on a cap hit that might be higher than his future aav.  Based on McBs tendencies to date, he’d be locked up by now if they really wanted him  imo.  There’s still time for it to happen, but the lack of an extension could have some meaning to it.  
 

I don’t think anyone wants a “thumper”…. Rather a guy that makes more impact plays, has better instincts for the position and processes quicker than edmunds does 

We hear so much from the TE apologists that he's simply doing what he's told. I think we can all agree his greatest asset is supposed to be his pass coverage ability. Yet over the last 2 seasons he's had a qb targeted rating of 114 and 104. The fact that the organization has not extended him tells you everything you want to know about his future. He'll play this season at 12.7 and then we'll let him go to FA.  If he made more impact plays he would've been wrapped up by now. They're not paying him 13-15.

[Patrick Duffy]

25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

As of now, it doesn’t appear that Edmunds is the MLB that McB wants to pay…..or he would’ve been paid….no?  Diggs had 2 years left on his deal….he was paid.  While edmunds is playing 2022 on a cap hit that might be higher than his future aav.  Based on McBs tendencies to date, he’d be locked up by now if they really wanted him  imo.  There’s still time for it to happen, but the lack of an extension could have some meaning to it.  
 

I don’t think anyone wants a “thumper”…. Rather a guy that makes more impact plays, has better instincts for the position and processes quicker than edmunds does 

Agreed. I would guess they may be doing a "wait and see" type approach before making a decision on Edmunds. Like maybe they have an eye on someone and waiting to see how things go for if/when available? Who knows....

 

Anyways, yeah I agree with you here

[unbillievable]

If the Bills win the Superbowl this year. All of them will be gone.

They won't stay after the ring. It will about the $$$.

[Patrick Duffy]

5 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

If the Bills win the Superbowl this year. All of them will be gone.

They won't stay after the ring. It will about the $$$.

That's fine really. I kinda expect this will be the last year of Hyde/Poyer we will see anyways. 

[billybrew1]

3 hours ago, intimidatortj said:

In 2023 the Buffalo Bills will have a lot of defensive starters on pretty hefty contracts.
This is going to have an impact on the draft this month.   Beane needs to plan ahead.

 

Let's assume Beane wants to keep Tremaine and has to pay him $14 million a year, for 2023, 2024 and beyond.

Did you know the Bills Cap Hit for Matt Milano is $13 million in 2023 and $13 million for 2024?
And Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde.   Do you pay them $11 million each, for 2023 and 2024?
Ed Oliver is $10 million a year just for 2023 and will be higher for 2024.
Tre White is costing $ 15-16 million / year.
Von Miller is $18 million and $21 million in 2023 & 2024.

 

To stay under the Cap long term, you need some starters making $2-3 million a year.  You need some players on rookie contracts.  

Honestly, signing Von Miller has made it almost a certainty some of the above players won't be on the roster/payroll in 2023.

 

So who would you move on from?  Who do you trade Or let go in Free Agency after 2022?

 

Tough calls….the guy that really sticks out to me from that list is Milano. What has he done for us lately? I don’t think he was ever worth that kind of dough…

I think Edmunds has to be replaced by a high pick so he might stay awhile if he agrees to a contract to stay….on the other hand, his contract is set to expire, all the work is done for us…. Hyde and Poyer unfortunately are getting old and perhaps we have to move on at the appropriate time there too… but I think there is a very little a young LB couldn’t do to replace Milano….Just got to find a smart one…I think defenses have found a way to nullify him…there is very little Milano can do about being blocked. I think teams have decided to put a hat on him to avoid his impact. Maybe if our DL is better this year, teams won’t be able to find Milano?

I sure hope you’re right on regarding Groot. The 3 young DEs absolutely have to come on this year… I wonder what weight Groot is going to be this spring? He might be a Super big end. He has the frame that is for sure. He gained 30 LBs. last year…..It would be very interesting if he showed up ~ 300#…. Too heavy???  
Is he athletic enough and explosive enough to get that QB at 265? His best bet might be to become a full power rusher at 300 like Super…. IDK? We’ll have to see….

[TBBills]

1 hour ago, intimidatortj said:

 

Exactly.  Good point.   Bill Belichick has traditionally traded a player "early".  Probably one year earlier than other teams might.   Green Bay, Pittsburgh and Baltimore know it is the NFL...not for long...and they build it into their process and draft.

 

I get it. I love Poyer, etc.  But if there is a stud safety in the draft you can get in the 2nd round and pay him only $2 million a year, you need to consider pulling the trigger.  That frees up $7-8 million in Cap for next year.    Ditto if there is a good MLB (Chad Muma?) to draft this year and get him on a $2 million a year contract.  That might save you $12 million next year.    Plus you set yourself up well for 2024 and 2025 and 2026.

So basically  a bunch of teams that either didn't make the playoffs or were tossed out in the first round is who you want to emulate... 

Edited April 12, 2022 by TBBills

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, intimidatortj said:

In 2023 the Buffalo Bills will have a lot of defensive starters on pretty hefty contracts.
This is going to have an impact on the draft this month.   Beane needs to plan ahead.

 

Let's assume Beane wants to keep Tremaine and has to pay him $14 million a year, for 2023, 2024 and beyond.

Did you know the Bills Cap Hit for Matt Milano is $13 million in 2023 and $13 million for 2024?
And Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde.   Do you pay them $11 million each, for 2023 and 2024?
Ed Oliver is $10 million a year just for 2023 and will be higher for 2024.
Tre White is costing $ 15-16 million / year.
Von Miller is $18 million and $21 million in 2023 & 2024.

 

To stay under the Cap long term, you need some starters making $2-3 million a year.  You need some players on rookie contracts.  

Honestly, signing Von Miller has made it almost a certainty some of the above players won't be on the roster/payroll in 2023.

 

So who would you move on from?  Who do you trade Or let go in Free Agency after 2022?

 

I would not make that assumption regarding Edmunds.  I wouldn’t have picked up his option, but we did so we are stuck with him this season.  I let him walk after it.  That makes other decisions a lot easier.

 

DL: Oliver has already had his fifth year option picked up so he will be here through next season.  He should be extended beyond that.  Von Miller will be here for at least three seasons due to his contract.  They are the only two DL players with big contracts. 
 

LB:  Milano is making a sizable contract, but is worth it and should be kept.  If the Bills let Edmunds walk, then Milano is the only big LB contract.  I’d draft a player who could replace Edmunds on day 2 this month. 
 

DB:  Tre has the biggest DB contract and isn’t going anywhere barring catastrophe.  Taron Johnson is our Nickel.  He just signed a contract that will keep him here.  We need a CB2.  Hopefully we get a solid, reasonably priced one in FA and another in the draft.  Hyde is signed through 2023.  I expect him to play it out.  Poyer is the only real question mark.  I don’t know what he’s asking for so I can’t say if we  should extend him or not.  If reasonable, then, sure.  Do it and lock him up with guarantees for the next couple years.  If not, we should trade home before the draft.  Regardless the Bills should find a safety that can develop in this draft. 
 

It’s all manageable if we don’t squander our cap space.  

[Mister Defense]

Well, we cannot move on from Miller, which will go down as one of the worst moves in the Bills franchise, as it will mean we cannot resign some of our very good young players in the coming years. Even when Miller is sitting at home, raking it in.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Mister Defense

[cba fan]

9 minutes ago, Mister Defense said:

Well, we cannot move on from Miller, which will do down as one of the worst moves in the Bills franchise, as it will mean we cannot resign some of our very good young players in the coming years. Even when Miller is sitting at home, raking it in.

it's a 3 yr contract for 52.4 mill and 7.4 dead cap.

not a problem.

And likely a restructure or two before the out after the 3rd year.

Edited April 12, 2022 by cba fan