Am I the only one who hasn't completely given up on Zack Moss?

[Vickveto]

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

15 minutes ago, Vickveto said:

 

You lost me here.

40 minutes ago, Vickveto said:

I just don’t see the need to invest in Oline early. we have young olinemen drafted early that you have too bet on there improvement. 

8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

You lost me here.

Agreed… Bills fans have overrated this current WR group. 

The RB group as well. There is a reason we are bringing highly rated RBs in we are looking at them early too.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Vickveto

[Logic]

1 hour ago, BringBackFlutie said:

 

Yes.

 

You're as good at contributing to message board discussions as you are at giving usable interviews to local newsmen. 

[Milanos Milano]

Bounce it outside Zach Moss. 

[Vickveto]

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Sorry. Can’t bet on improvement from Cody Ford. Dudes done. 
 

And Brown has a long way to go… 

Ford gets paid too much for the staff not to  believe in him. he would be cut or restructured by now. Brown was selected in the third round you have to bet on his improvement. Getting a day one top ten running back or Another quality speed receiver is worth more to us in the first two rounds.

 

but  we will probably draft a linebacker in the first round and trade Edmonds on draft day.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Vickveto said:

You are contradicting yourself. If you are in the top half of playmaker talent with a top three quarterback you’re not even discussing receiver in the first two rounds but we are. Bringing top end WRs in for visits. There is a reason Crowder sat in the free-agent market so long and McKenzie did too…didn’t get paid much either. Gabe Davis has never won a starting job.  Elijah Moore Devonte Parker and Jaylen Waddle are all considered better wide receivers and those are the number twos just in our division. We have a top 10 tight end situation and are running back situation it’s somewhere in the 20s. 

 

 

I'm not contradicting myself in the slightest.

 

We ARE in the top half of playmaker talent, with a top three quarterback.

 

And yet we ARE discussing receiver in the first two rounds, as would any team in our situation.

 

We are in the top half. Very easily. But we want to get higher. For a team that has Josh Allen at QB and wants to depend mostly on the pass game it's really a very simple and obvious situation, not a contradiction at all.

 

And the reason Crowder sat in the free-agent market is he doesn't fit the system, the roster or cap situation of many teams. No, he's not an elite guy, but yes, he's a very good slot receiver, well in the top half of slots and again probably close to the top quarter, particularly on our roster as it's constructed. Not every team values them so much, but we do.

 

 

[Richard Noggin]

44 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Sorry. Can’t bet on improvement from Cody Ford. Dudes done. 
 

And Brown has a long way to go… 

I'm on board with the first half here. Hard to imagine Ford being more successful in a zone scheme, given his limited lateral athleticism. Kromer's a heck of a coach, no doubt, but he ain't a miracle worker. 

 

Spencer Brown, with his ELITE traits and his ELITE off-season training regimen (working with an elite tackle who had similar traits)...and his ELITE physical joy for the game (see also: almost any replay)...that's a guy who is more likely to PROgress rather than REgress. It ain't guaranteed, but it's likely. Especially given the new coaching and new scheme that emphasizes movement. 

[BringBackFlutie]

50 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

You're as good at contributing to message board discussions as you are at giving usable interviews to local newsmen. 

 

It's like I always say- "stupid names deserve stupid interviews."

[TheWeatherMan]

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Singletary has a better YPA than Ezekiel Elliott.

So does JA

[Richard Noggin]

4 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I think so too… having some insurance behind him and Dawkins is key… in case Browns struggles continue and/or injury. 
 

 

You don't think Doyle, with his ELITE measurables/traits and his admirable/ effective performance as the 6th man, is a strong and fiscally responsible candidate for that role? 

 

I know it's not a direct reflection on Tommy Doyle's execution of his assignments, but a contingent of fans in our section of the stadium began to cheer for his declarations of receiver-eligibility in the back half of the season. At first the cheers were mostly ironic, given the sudden frequency of such an obscure on-field announcement, but eventually the cheers became louder with actual anticipation of the given play's success. Those alignments actually seemed to work. Maybe that is a condemnation of Tommy Sweeney, or maybe even of Spencer Brown, but whatever the verifiable reality...Tommy Doyle on the field meant, to us in attendance, that points were about to be scored. 

[Sierra Foothills]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

It seems that just about everyone has written off Zack Moss as a reasonable RB2 option going forward. 

I understand that he had a down 2021, but he certainly showed promise in the 2020 season, to the point where he was viewed by many as the Bills' true RB1 heading into 2021. He is a hard running, physical back with good balance and catching ability. He was drafted in the third round just two seasons ago and Beane was very excited to get him (cue pithy Cody Ford remark here).

A few things stick out to me:

1.) In 2020, when the Bills offensive line switched to primarily zone running, Moss became very effective. Singletary, less so. In 2021, the Bills tried to do a bit of everything, rolled out the "RB by committee" approach again, realized it was a failure by mid-season, and scrapped it for a heavy reliance on Singletary and power gap runs and pin-and-pull concepts. These are Singletary's bread and butter, so whereas he had struggled in 2020, he rebounded and flourished behind the blocking scheme with which he is most effective. Moss, on the other hand, went the opposite direction. After averaging 4.3 ypc in 2020, he averaged just 3.6 in 2021.

Here's the thing with that: if I'm not mistaken, new o-line coach Aaron Kromer will most likely be bringing in the wide zone, one-cut-and-go stuff full time. As just mentioned, Moss thrived behind this running scheme in 2020. Why doesn't anyone think he can thrive again?

2.) We saw just last year, with Singletary himself, the following phenomenon: A running back comes in and thrives as a rookie, has a sophomore slump partly due to change in blocking scheme, then rebounds in year three upon returning to the blocking scheme with which he's most comfortable. This exact scenario seems to be playing out with Zack Moss right now. Nice year one, down year two behind new blocking scheme...why can't year three with a zone running scheme see the same type of bounce-back from him that Singletary enjoyed?

I'm not saying he's ever gonna be a top five back or light the league on fire, but so many Bills fans seem completely ready to ship him off for a late round pick or cut him outright, and certainly aren't counting on him to contribute meaningfully in 2022, and I can't quite figure out why that is. It's not as if he has NEVER shown that he can be effective in this league. Bring up the 2020 game highlights and you see plenty of really nice plays and both the running and passing game from Moss. Does everyone just assume he completely forgot how to play football?

If you're one of those who have given up on Zack Moss, I'm curious to know your reasoning. I'm also curious to know: if you don't believe he can rebound behind better OL personnel, with a better o-line coach and a blocking scheme better suited to his skills, WHY don't you believe it?



 

 

Last week I posted this: 

 

 

NFL fans tend to overreact to pretty much everything. The majority of this board was writing off Singletary last offseason.

 

Moss had a good college career and a promising rookie campaign. This year he has to compete against Duke Johnson for snaps.

 

I could easily see Moss having a bounce back season where he plays significant snaps in a contributing role.

 

Whether it's Moss or Duke (or Singletary) I believe the Bills will see greater contributions from their number two running back this year than they have so far under the McBeane Administration.

[Freddie's Dead]

Why yes, yes you are!  

[longtimebillsfan]

3 hours ago, Logic said:

 

You're as good at contributing to message board discussions as you are at giving usable interviews to local newsmen. 

You need to lighten up.  People are allowed to voice an opinion contrary to yours.

 

Many believe Moss lacks what it takes to be an effective NFL caliber running back.  No need for such personal attacks to other posters.

 

If you want to start a thread, put on your big boy pants and man up.

 

Since you don't like one word responses, I hope this response meets your standards.

 

And to answer your original question...yes.

[CSBill]

I have not given up on him. He will have this year to prove his worth, and I do believe he will.

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by CSBill

[eball]

12 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Moss was hopefully hurt or out of shape last season or both.  He looked nothing like a professional football player when he played.

 

That’s a little harsh…I mean, the uniform seemed to fit well and everything.

[Matt_In_NH]

12 hours ago, unbillievable said:

I have a feeling that Singletary will get traded, Moss will be a healthy scratch, and a rookie plus Duke will be the backfield.

 

 

How is that’s feeling?  Sounds like a random guess 

[machine gun kelly]

Yes.

 

I see he has poor vision, and not enough burst.  Keep moving forward and find another guy in the mid rounds.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

13 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I hope something clicks for him.  Have a feeling we are drafting a RB this year and Moss will be the weekly healthy scratch

 

If they draft a RB which I agree good chance will happen, doubt he's even on the roster.  Either him or Jonson will be gone and the other one left will likely be inactive.  Of the two I give Johnson a better chance of surviving.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

17 minutes ago, machine gun kelly said:

Yes.

 

I see he has poor vision, and not enough burst.  Keep moving forward and find another guy in the mid rounds.

 

It wasn't vision.  The offensive line was absolute trash for much of last year.  

[ddaryl]

We've seen players turn it around, and we've seen players who needed a couple years before showing solid improvement.

I'll judge Moss at the end of training camp/pre-season. I always viewed Moss as more of a bowling ball RB. Hit the gap and run over anything in your way. Hopefully a new OL scheme/Coach and upgrades on the OL will improve all the RBs on our roster.

Edited April 11, 2022 by ddaryl

[buffaloboyinATL]

14 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

His vision is poor imo.  That is really needed as a RB lol

I agree with this statement, but I am of the belief that this can be fixed with repetition. The truth is, we were not running the ball enough last year, especially early in the season and that affected the run game as a whole. With enough reps, I believe Moss will get better at accelerating through the hole.