Am I the only one who hasn't completely given up on Zack Moss?

[Tipster19]

I hope so, I bought his jersey and I would like to see it have some kind of value.

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Josh Allen + good OL + healthy receiving/TE corps + Singletary/Moss/Johnson = highest scoring Bills offense ever

 

It's not the ordinary RB corps that is the weak link in that equation............it's the quality and depth of the OL and the need for more depth/speed in the WR corps.

 

Every offseason the same % of TSW characters spend the offseason pounding the keyboard for a first round RB until their fingers bleed.

 

But it's not a plan that really makes any sense whatsoever based on DECADES of data.

 

In fairness though.........there are still usually a handful of GM's like Dave Gettlenutz that also still think they are playing 20th century football so it's hard to totally blame fans for being thickheaded about it.

 

Moss is a fine RB2/RB3........not as reliably productive of a runner as Singletary......but is a very good pass protector and sneaky effective as a receiver.

 

 

[Vickveto]

I never liked Zack Moss even going through the draft process. 

[longtimebillsfan]

52 minutes ago, Logic said:

It seems that just about everyone has written off Zack Moss as a reasonable RB2 option going forward. 

I understand that he had a down 2021, but he certainly showed promise in the 2020 season, to the point where he was viewed by many as the Bills' true RB1 heading into 2021. He is a hard running, physical back with good balance and catching ability. He was drafted in the third round just two seasons ago and Beane was very excited to get him (cue pithy Cody Ford remark here).

A few things stick out to me:

1.) In 2020, when the Bills offensive line switched to primarily zone running, Moss became very effective. Singletary, less so. In 2021, the Bills tried to do a bit of everything, rolled out the "RB by committee" approach again, realized it was a failure by mid-season, and scrapped it for a heavy reliance on Singletary and power gap runs and pin-and-pull concepts. These are Singletary's bread and butter, so whereas he had struggled in 2020, he rebounded and flourished behind the blocking scheme with which he is most effective. Moss, on the other hand, went the opposite direction. After averaging 4.3 ypc in 2020, he averaged just 3.6 in 2021.

Here's the thing with that: if I'm not mistaken, new o-line coach Aaron Kromer will most likely be bringing in the wide zone, one-cut-and-go stuff full time. As just mentioned, Moss thrived behind this running scheme in 2020. Why doesn't anyone think he can thrive again?

2.) We saw just last year, with Singletary himself, the following phenomenon: A running back comes in and thrives as a rookie, has a sophomore slump partly due to change in blocking scheme, then rebounds in year three upon returning to the blocking scheme with which he's most comfortable. This exact scenario seems to be playing out with Zack Moss right now. Nice year one, down year two behind new blocking scheme...why can't year three with a zone running scheme see the same type of bounce-back from him that Singletary enjoyed?

I'm not saying he's ever gonna be a top five back or light the league on fire, but so many Bills fans seem completely ready to ship him off for a late round pick or cut him outright, and certainly aren't counting on him to contribute meaningfully in 2022, and I can't quite figure out why that is. It's not as if he has NEVER shown that he can be effective in this league. Bring up the 2020 game highlights and you see plenty of really nice plays and both the running and passing game from Moss. Does everyone just assume he completely forgot how to play football?

If you're one of those who have given up on Zack Moss, I'm curious to know your reasoning. I'm also curious to know: if you don't believe he can rebound behind better OL personnel, with a better o-line coach and a blocking scheme better suited to his skills, WHY don't you believe it?



 

Yes.

[Logic]

1 minute ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Yes.

Each one of you who offer a one word reply are really adding nuance and contributing positively to the discourse. Thank you.

[longtimebillsfan]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

Each one of you who offer a one word reply are really adding nuance and contributing positively to the discourse. Thank you.

We try.

[Augie]

25 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I am pounding the table for Zack Moss

 

 

Have you considered anger management therapy?  

[JESSEFEFFER]

I like Moss but wonder if he is physically up to his running style.  This goes back to his time at Utah.  He started 2020 with turf toe but was strong at the end and seemed to be getting the bulk of the important carries up until his ankle injury vs. the Colts.  I do not recall the nature of it but it required surgery and rehab.   He had a good game vs. KC and he has always been an effective pass blocker with decent hands.  I think he got a concussion vs. the Jets and that began his diminished role and Singletary's ascension.   For his own prospects as a Buffalo Bill, he needs to have a very good training camp, imo.

[bubba2018]

Zach Moss will never be as good as he is right now. He’s a below average RB who blocks well, that’s it.

[716er]

Not a fan of Moss but he has shown enough to be on the roster with Singletary and Johnson next year. His vision sucks but he is an above average pass blocker and decent pass catcher which is valuable in this offense. A good back-up for Devin and a guy to split with Johnson. Maybe he shows last year was an anomaly and puts it together.

 

 

[qwksilver]

Logic you make a good case and I hope you're right. It explains his down year. I'm sure the coaches understand this. A better version/use of Moss can only be a plus for 2022. 

[GoBills808]

58 minutes ago, Logic said:

Is Singletary?

Because if people are saying "none of our RBs are good enough, we need a dynamic guy back there", then I can buy that.

But if people think Singletary is good enough and Moss isn't, I'm just not sure I agree. There sure didn't seem to be a big talent gap between them in 2020.

Singletary has a better YPA than Ezekiel Elliott.

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Logic said:

Each one of you who offer a one word reply are really adding nuance and contributing positively to the discourse. Thank you.

 

Welcome.  

 

 

 

I think we need to be on the inside to have a clue. What does Kromer have planned? What does McD see from the inside?  The guy kept Josh clean, so I loved that. In the right scheme ha can be effective, no doubt. Not a star, but solid in my mind. 

[Andrew Son]

Moss has shown one very important skill- he's excellent in pass protection.

 

Make or break year coming up.

[Sharky7337]

After last season you may very well be.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Moss runs a 4.70 40.

 

That is way too slow

[Logic]

For those that ask “what sets Moss apart from being Just a Guy?”, my answer is:

 

Agility, quickness, balance, tackle breaking ability, compact build, runs with good pad level, very good run blocker.

 

Let me repeat: I’m not saying he’ll ever be a top 10 back in this league. I’m saying that has utility on an NFL roster as an RB2 who can get you 800-1000 yards from scrimmage per season, and that’s not useless.

 

Here are some highlights from his 2020 season, which saw him post three games with more than six yards per carry:

 

 

 

Here’s an article from PFF, specifically about Moss, pointing out that 40 times are less predictive of running back success in the NFL than agility and quickness based tests like the 3-cone.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-forget-the-40-yard-dash-time-zack-moss-excels-at-the-things-that-matter-for-a-running-back

 

 

And lastly, a reminder of one of the reasons the Bills were excited to draft Moss to begin with:

 

 

 

 

I’m just saying the guy has skill. Dynamic RB1? No. Useless bust? Absolutely not. He can be a player in this offense.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Logic

[Teddy KGB]

Yes, he stinks 

[Logic]

1 minute ago, Teddy KGB said:

Yes, he stinks 

Another killer contribution to the discussion.

[freddyjj]

I liked him coming out but Moss has done very little as a pro.  Maybe he should cut back on the clothing business and other side interests In the offseason to hone his game.  Singletary did last year and it helped him.