Am I the only one who hasn't completely given up on Zack Moss?

[Logic]

It seems that just about everyone has written off Zack Moss as a reasonable RB2 option going forward. 

I understand that he had a down 2021, but he certainly showed promise in the 2020 season, to the point where he was viewed by many as the Bills' true RB1 heading into 2021. He is a hard running, physical back with good balance and catching ability. He was drafted in the third round just two seasons ago and Beane was very excited to get him (cue pithy Cody Ford remark here).

A few things stick out to me:

1.) In 2020, when the Bills offensive line switched to primarily zone running, Moss became very effective. Singletary, less so. In 2021, the Bills tried to do a bit of everything, rolled out the "RB by committee" approach again, realized it was a failure by mid-season, and scrapped it for a heavy reliance on Singletary and power gap runs and pin-and-pull concepts. These are Singletary's bread and butter, so whereas he had struggled in 2020, he rebounded and flourished behind the blocking scheme with which he is most effective. Moss, on the other hand, went the opposite direction. After averaging 4.3 ypc in 2020, he averaged just 3.6 in 2021.

Here's the thing with that: if I'm not mistaken, new o-line coach Aaron Kromer will most likely be bringing in the wide zone, one-cut-and-go stuff full time. As just mentioned, Moss thrived behind this running scheme in 2020. Why doesn't anyone think he can thrive again?

2.) We saw just last year, with Singletary himself, the following phenomenon: A running back comes in and thrives as a rookie, has a sophomore slump partly due to change in blocking scheme, then rebounds in year three upon returning to the blocking scheme with which he's most comfortable. This exact scenario seems to be playing out with Zack Moss right now. Nice year one, down year two behind new blocking scheme...why can't year three with a zone running scheme see the same type of bounce-back from him that Singletary enjoyed?

I'm not saying he's ever gonna be a top five back or light the league on fire, but so many Bills fans seem completely ready to ship him off for a late round pick or cut him outright, and certainly aren't counting on him to contribute meaningfully in 2022, and I can't quite figure out why that is. It's not as if he has NEVER shown that he can be effective in this league. Bring up the 2020 game highlights and you see plenty of really nice plays and both the running and passing game from Moss. Does everyone just assume he completely forgot how to play football?

If you're one of those who have given up on Zack Moss, I'm curious to know your reasoning. I'm also curious to know: if you don't believe he can rebound behind better OL personnel, with a better o-line coach and a blocking scheme better suited to his skills, WHY don't you believe it?



 

[Dablitzkrieg]

His vision is poor imo.  That is really needed as a RB lol

[BuffBillsForLife]

Moss is just another guy.  

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

His vision is poor imo.  That is really needed as a RB lol

I agree that his vision seemed poor in 2021 with the power gap run stuff.

I do not agree that his vision seemed poor in 2020 when they were running more outside zone. He had three separate games averaging over 6 yards per carry and a fourth where he averaged 5.8.

 

[Dablitzkrieg]

Just now, Logic said:

I agree that his vision seemed poor in 2021 with the power gap run stuff.

I do not agree that his vision seemed poor in 2020 when they were running more outside zone. He had three separate games averaging over 6 yards per carry and a fourth where he averaged 5.8.

 

I hope something clicks for him.  Have a feeling we are drafting a RB this year and Moss will be the weekly healthy scratch

[julian]

I’ve given up on worrying about RB until Allen retires.

[Logic]

1 minute ago, RunJoshRun said:

On a team trying to win a SB he's just not good enough.

 

Is Singletary?

Because if people are saying "none of our RBs are good enough, we need a dynamic guy back there", then I can buy that.

But if people think Singletary is good enough and Moss isn't, I'm just not sure I agree. There sure didn't seem to be a big talent gap between them in 2020.

[Philo]

I liked Moss coming out and was happy with drafting him. Last season was certainly disappointing, so at this point my expectations are just really low. I wouldn't be shocked by a bounce back season of some sort, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. 

[DJB]

Bottom line is that we need an upgrade at RB so that our best guy isnt Allen. 

[NoSaint]

12 minutes ago, Logic said:

It seems that just about everyone has written off Zack Moss as a reasonable RB2 option going forward. 

I understand that he had a down 2021, but he certainly showed promise in the 2020 season, to the point where he was viewed by many as the Bills' true RB1 heading into 2021. He is a hard running, physical back with good balance and catching ability. He was drafted in the third round just two seasons ago and Beane was very excited to get him (cue pithy Cody Ford remark here).

A few things stick out to me:

1.) In 2020, when the Bills offensive line switched to primarily zone running, Moss became very effective. Singletary, less so. In 2021, the Bills tried to do a bit of everything, rolled out the "RB by committee" approach again, realized it was a failure by mid-season, and scrapped it for a heavy reliance on Singletary and power gap runs and pin-and-pull concepts. These are Singletary's bread and butter, so whereas he had struggled in 2020, he rebounded and flourished behind the blocking scheme with which he is most effective. Moss, on the other hand, went the opposite direction. After averaging 4.3 ypc in 2020, he averaged just 3.6 in 2021.

Here's the thing with that: if I'm not mistaken, new o-line coach Aaron Kromer will most likely be bringing in the wide zone, one-cut-and-go stuff full time. As just mentioned, Moss thrived behind this running scheme in 2020. Why doesn't anyone think he can thrive again?

2.) We saw just last year, with Singletary himself, the following phenomenon: A running back comes in and thrives as a rookie, has a sophomore slump partly due to change in blocking scheme, then rebounds in year three upon returning to the blocking scheme with which he's most comfortable. This exact scenario seems to be playing out with Zack Moss right now. Nice year one, down year two behind new blocking scheme...why can't year three with a zone running scheme see the same type of bounce-back from him that Singletary enjoyed?

I'm not saying he's ever gonna be a top five back or light the league on fire, but so many Bills fans seem completely ready to ship him off for a late round pick or cut him outright, and certainly aren't counting on him to contribute meaningfully in 2022, and I can't quite figure out why that is. It's not as if he has NEVER shown that he can be effective in this league. Bring up the 2020 game highlights and you see plenty of really nice plays and both the running and passing game from Moss. Does everyone just assume he completely forgot how to play football?

If you're one of those who have given up on Zack Moss, I'm curious to know your reasoning. I'm also curious to know: if you don't believe he can rebound behind better OL personnel, with a better o-line coach and a blocking scheme better suited to his skills, WHY don't you believe it?



 

 

I think there’s a difference between giving up and not thinking you can reliably count on the guy. He could step up but if I told you singletary gets hurt in the playoffs, I doubt you are betting the house on moss carrying the load 

[unbillievable]

I have a feeling that Singletary will get traded, Moss will be a healthy scratch, and a rookie plus Duke will be the backfield.

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

Hopefully his mom and dad are still in his corner but they're likely giving him one more season to prove himself.

[CoudyBills]

Yes

[The Jokeman]

14 minutes ago, Logic said:

Is Singletary?

Because if people are saying "none of our RBs are good enough, we need a dynamic guy back there", then I can buy that.

But if people think Singletary is good enough and Moss isn't, I'm just not sure I agree. There sure didn't seem to be a big talent gap between them in 2020.

Singletary is better than Moss in all facets of the game and to me he's a a change of pace back. If we draft a speed/return type back (I'm hoping for Ty Chandler)  than Moss won't be on the 53 but wouldn't mind him on the PS.

[hondo in seattle]

Logic, you make some good points.   Maybe an upgraded OL will help Moss.  Maybe Kramer, and his blocking schemes, will make a difference.  

 

But I've never seen anything in Moss that says he's more than a JAG.  Every RB in the NFL has some talent; that's why they're on a 53-man roster.  But in what way does Moss distinguish himself from the hundred - more or less - other backs in the league?   Bigger?  Faster?  More elusive?  More explosive?  Breaks tackles better?  

 

I don't think objective answers to those questions gives many people a lot of confidence.  

 

But who knows?  Maybe he'll have some kind of surprise breakthrough this season.  I'd love to see it!

[HOUSE]

I am pounding the table for Zack Moss

 

[Mc1320]

Yes

[Coach Tuesday]

Moss was hopefully hurt or out of shape last season or both.  He looked nothing like a professional football player when he played.

[billybrew1]

18 minutes ago, Logic said:

It seems that just about everyone has written off Zack Moss as a reasonable RB2 option going forward. 

I understand that he had a down 2021, but he certainly showed promise in the 2020 season, to the point where he was viewed by many as the Bills' true RB1 heading into 2021. He is a hard running, physical back with good balance and catching ability. He was drafted in the third round just two seasons ago and Beane was very excited to get him (cue pithy Cody Ford remark here).

A few things stick out to me:

1.) In 2020, when the Bills offensive line switched to primarily zone running, Moss became very effective. Singletary, less so. In 2021, the Bills tried to do a bit of everything, rolled out the "RB by committee" approach again, realized it was a failure by mid-season, and scrapped it for a heavy reliance on Singletary and power gap runs and pin-and-pull concepts. These are Singletary's bread and butter, so whereas he had struggled in 2020, he rebounded and flourished behind the blocking scheme with which he is most effective. Moss, on the other hand, went the opposite direction. After averaging 4.3 ypc in 2020, he averaged just 3.6 in 2021.

Here's the thing with that: if I'm not mistaken, new o-line coach Aaron Kromer will most likely be bringing in the wide zone, one-cut-and-go stuff full time. As just mentioned, Moss thrived behind this running scheme in 2020. Why doesn't anyone think he can thrive again?

2.) We saw just last year, with Singletary himself, the following phenomenon: A running back comes in and thrives as a rookie, has a sophomore slump partly due to change in blocking scheme, then rebounds in year three upon returning to the blocking scheme with which he's most comfortable. This exact scenario seems to be playing out with Zack Moss right now. Nice year one, down year two behind new blocking scheme...why can't year three with a zone running scheme see the same type of bounce-back from him that Singletary enjoyed?

I'm not saying he's ever gonna be a top five back or light the league on fire, but so many Bills fans seem completely ready to ship him off for a late round pick or cut him outright, and certainly aren't counting on him to contribute meaningfully in 2022, and I can't quite figure out why that is. It's not as if he has NEVER shown that he can be effective in this league. Bring up the 2020 game highlights and you see plenty of really nice plays and both the running and passing game from Moss. Does everyone just assume he completely forgot how to play football?

If you're one of those who have given up on Zack Moss, I'm curious to know your reasoning. I'm also curious to know: if you don't believe he can rebound behind better OL personnel, with a better o-line coach and a blocking scheme better suited to his skills, WHY don't you believe it?



 

Nice write-up.

No, I haven’t given up on Moss and more importantly  I don’t think Beane has either. What I think is going on is if a RB in round two is clearly the BPA we’ll draft a new #1 RB and Moss will be on the trade-block at a drastically reduced price. 
But if we can go Lineman or WR or CB in round two running back is off the needs list until the 7th round or UDFA….

IMHO, Singletary is the better back. Devon can make people miss very well and Moss cannot. Otherwise, I think their just about clones with maybe Moss a little tougher. Both are fantastic run blockers. Both are decent receivers but not great by any means. I’d give the edge to Moss there. I don’t know why both aren’t better though….

I think Duke Johnson is a good RB. IThink he has the the 2nd back job already wrapped-up because he is a good receiver. He brings something else.

Moss has to wait for an injury and then give it everything he has. He is fully capable of taking someone’s job when it happens. RBs generally get knocked up so the opportunity will come. Beane has tremendous patience and hates to give up on a player he drafted. Look at that guard we traded to Cleveland or the KO specialist Ray-Ray McCloud. If Beane drafts them, they appear to be NFL players.

In round two there is a back named Walker. LOL, he is very much like Singletary and Moss….the same height and weight as those two…The thing is though with Walker is he’s a 4.4 guy. A Singletary that can run away…. If we drafted him we’d have four ~ 5’9” 215# 

RBs…..

Anyway, a Singletary with speed sounds pretty good though I wish we could get a big back like the colts stud. 
though, like I said, I think we can get bye with Singletary, Johnson and Moss, three NFL level backs. Three very similar backs…

[H2o]

In the words of Josh Allen:

 

Yes