Bills restructure Ryan Bates contract

[Simon Says]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They already have plenty for that. There is no need to push more money into the future unless they’re adding someone.

I dont know about "plenty". what are they freeing upbwith Diggs this year, 5,6 million ?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

6 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

So I am curious. How do they account for things like performance incentives that are earned at the end of a given season. I assume that those count towards the cap, so do you have to hold the cap space at the beginning of the season, or do you have to make room at the end if you don't have the space available?

 

(p.s. I'm asking you because you seem to be on top of the cap dynamics, so thanks)

There are more informed people than I when it comes to the cap but performance incentives would be paid after the season and don’t count against the current seasons cap.

[The Jokeman]

4 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

Are the Giants still looking to trade him? I know they are in a tough spot cap wise but he is one of the few good players they have on the team.

There were whispers all offseason that Bradberry was available, I'd like him but it depends on compensation as if give up anything higher than a 3rd I'd have reservations. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by The Jokeman

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

21 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

So I am curious. How do they account for things like performance incentives that are earned at the end of a given season. I assume that those count towards the cap, so do you have to hold the cap space at the beginning of the season, or do you have to make room at the end if you don't have the space available?

 

(p.s. I'm asking you because you seem to be on top of the cap dynamics, so thanks)

 

There are whats called "likely to be earned" and "unlikely to be earned" bonuses and incentives.  Likely to be earned count toward the current years cap, unlikely earned ones IF earned count towards the following year.  How/where do they draw the line in the sand to decide where each one falls, not sure exactly what goes into that.

 

It's rumored Bill Belichick has the final say on determination league wide!

[buffaloboyinATL]

14 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

There are more informed people than I when it comes to the cap but performance incentives would be paid after the season and don’t count against the current seasons cap.

 

3 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

There are whats called "likely to be earned" and "unlikely to be earned" bonuses and incentives.  Likely to be earned count toward the current years cap, unlikely earned ones IF earned count towards the following year.  How/where do they draw the line in the sand to decide where each one falls, not sure exactly what goes into that.

 

It's rumored Bill Belichick has the final say on determination league wide!

Thank you both, I appreciate the information. @Ed_Formerly_of_Roch So Belichick controls the decision on whether incentives are likely or unlikely, AND the compensatory pick formula?!?

[Tuco]

Here's the deal -

 

First of all, the confusion starts right in the beginning when Busgaglia tweets the Bills converted $1.5 million of base salary into signing bonus.

 

WRONG!!! Bates didn't have a $3.0 million base salary for 2022 that they just converted $1.5 million of. His $3.5 million cap hit originally listed was in the form of $1.5 million base salary, $1.5 million guaranteed option/roster bonus, and the $500,000 prorated from his original $2.0 million signing bonus.

 

Let's get to the $1.5 million guaranteed option/roster bonus. Whether it's called option or roster is irrelevant, the fact that it's guaranteed is what's important. Because the bonus is guaranteed, by rule the team has the option when the bonus is due to convert it to guaranteed salary and keep it charged to the current season, or to convert it to signing bonus and prorate the cap hit over the life of the contract.

 

This is a very common tactic, but usually used in the 2nd year of a contract. Look at Stefon Diggs new contract. It came with a $16 million guaranteed bonus in year 2 that will automatically be converted next year and prorated. In Diggs' case it's so the team can split up his signing bonus proration. They can only prorate for 5 years so they give Diggs a certain amount of bonus this year and prorate it for the next five, then give him more guaranteed bonus next year and prorate it through years 2-6. This type of thing is nothing new. It's a great way to give the player a bigger bonus yet still keep the cap hit low in year one. And teams have been doing it for years.

 

Now back to Bates. As I mentioned, the contract the Bills matched called for a $1.5 million bonus to be paid this year. The only reason a team would normally add such a bonus is so they can convert and prorate when the time comes. Now it's entirely possible the Bears did it on purpose to try to leverage Bates away. If they head simply made the $1.5 Mill bonus part of the initial signing bonus then Bates cap charge for '22 would have been the $2.375 million figure it is now instead of the $3.5 million figure the Bills had to match at the time.

 

Was this a Bears trick to try to make it harder for us to match? Possibly. Maybe even probably. But the important part of all this is that despite what Buscaglia's tweet says, the Bills didn't "restructure" anything. They matched the contract as it was written and then converted a guaranteed bonus into signing bonus. It's possible the Bears had written it so the conversion would be automatic on a certain date, in which case the Bills doing this could actually have simply been a formality.

 

Regardless, just so we all know, the Bills did not "restructure" any "base salary." They simply converted a guaranteed bonus into a signing bonus, which teams are free to do at any time and was probably the Bears plan to do also.

 

And now a word about a somewhat related subject. I've seen a lot of people here mention they thought you couldn't restructure a contract for a year. Well that's not exactly true. The CBA says that after a contract is renegotiated (note that says renegotiated, not restructured) to give the player more money, then it can't be renegotiated again for a full year. That's different than a restructure where the money stays the same, and basically means if a player with an existing contract is given a new contract for more money, they can't do it again for at least a year. But it doesn't apply to an actual restructure where the player's money stays the same.

 

Go Bills.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Tuco

[MasterStrategist]

3 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Here's the deal -

 

First of all, the confusion starts right in the beginning when Busgaglia tweets the Bills converted $1.5 million of base salary into signing bonus.

 

WRONG!!! Bates didn't have a $3.0 million base salary for 2022 that they just converted $1.5 million of. His $3.5 million cap hit originally listed was in the form of $1.5 million base salary, $1.5 million guaranteed option/roster bonus, and the $500,000 prorated from his original $2.0 million signing bonus.

 

Let's get to the $1.5 million guaranteed option/roster bonus. Whether it's called option or roster is irrelevant, the fact that it's guaranteed is what's important. Because the bonus is guaranteed, by rule the team has the option when the bonus is due to convert it to guaranteed salary and charge it all to the current season, or to convert it to signing bonus and prorate the cap hit over the life of the contract.

 

This is a very common tactic, but usually used in the 2nd year of a contract. Look at Stefon Diggs new contract. It came with a $16 million guaranteed bonus in year 2 that will automatically be converted next year and prorated. In Diggs' case it's so the team can split up his signing bonus proration. They can only prorate for 5 years so they give Diggs a certain amount of bonus this year and prorate it for the next five, then give him more guaranteed bonus next year and prorate it through years 2-6. This type of thing is nothing new. It's a great way to give the player a bigger bonus yet still keep the cap hit low in year one. And teams have been doing it for years.

 

Now back to Bates. As I mentioned, the contract the Bills matched called for a $1.5 million bonus to be paid this year. The only reason a team would normally add such a bonus is so they can convert and prorate when the time comes. Now it's entirely possible the Bears did it on purpose to try to leverage Bates away. If they head simply made the $1.5 Mill bonus part of the initial signing bonus then Bates cap charge for '22 would have been the $2.375 million figure it is now instead of the $3.5 million figure the Bills had to match at the time.

 

Was this a Bears trick to try to make it harder for us to match? Possibly. Maybe even probably. But the important part of all this is that despite what Buscaglia's tweet says, the Bills didn't "restructure" anything. They matched the contract as it was written and then converted a guaranteed bonus into signing bonus. It's possible the Bears had written it so the conversion would be automatic on a certain date, in which case the Bills doing this could actually have simply been a formality.

 

Regardless, just so we all know, the Bills did not "restructure" any "base salary." They simply converted a guaranteed bonus into a signing bonus, which teams are free to do at any time and was probably the Bears plan to do also.

 

And now a word about a somewhat related subject. I've seen a lot of people here mention they thought you couldn't restructure a contract for a year. Well that's not exactly true. The CBA says that after a contract is renegotiated (note that says renegotiated, not restructured) to give the player more money, then it can't be renegotiated again for a full year. That's different than a restructure where the money stays the same, and basically means if a player with an existing contract is given a new contract for more money, they can't do it again for at least a year. But it doesn't apply to an actual restructure where the player's money stays the same.

 

Go Bills.

 

 

Long post, not sure it's accurate either.  

 

Bates had a $1.5m base salary for 2022, that's what Beane just converted; hence saving the exact amount against the cap that Joe B reported.

 

Again, base salary was converted, not a guaranteed bonus.

[LyndonvilleBill]

4 hours ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Is Bradberry 2022's Ertz yet?

Not even close. Need at least 10 more threads and 300 pages!!🤣

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

Can a cornerback signing be far behind?

I think we will see one middle level Vet signing for that $3-4 mil range. I say this because I think Beane really likes to draft for value over need. Right now it is very difficult to say there is not a need at CB. 

[Tuco]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Long post, not sure it's accurate either.  

 

Bates had a $1.5m base salary for 2022, that's what Beane just converted; hence saving the exact amount against the cap that Joe B reported.

 

Again, base salary was converted, not a guaranteed bonus.

LOL really? Bates had a $1.5 million salary that was converted to signing bonus? So now he has zero base salary for 2022? Come on man.

 

[LyndonvilleBill]

5 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

This could be upping the ante for the CB.   Setting their sights a little higher than the $3.5M market.

 

Possibly Fuller.  Maybe trading Epenesa and a 5th for Bradberry (and the Giants eat half the contract).  Or maybe it does take $5M to get Nelson (or whichever one they like most- which I personally hope is not Gilmore).

 

 

Didn't Trevon Diggs say something about playing with his brother!!😱

 

I'm kidding!! Of course, Jerry would never do it.😉

[longtimebillsfan]

20 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I think we will see one middle level Vet signing for that $3-4 mil range. I say this because I think Beane really likes to draft for value over need. Right now it is very difficult to say there is not a need at CB. 

Agreed.  I am an advocate of selecting the best player available especially in the first round.

[MasterStrategist]

16 minutes ago, Tuco said:

LOL really? Bates had a $1.5 million salary that was converted to signing bonus? So now he has zero base salary for 2022? Come on man.

 

Not sure if you're trying to be snarky, or just don't understand cap rules.

 

Converting salary to bonus is a typical move, to create additional cap room in current season.  He had a $1.5 base salary (fully guaranteed in 2022), according to Joe they converted it all to bonus.  So Bates will receive that money immediately, and Bills get to spread the $1.5m across his 4 yr deal (hence saving the approx $1.2m).

 

Not sure what's difficult to understand.

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

One guy wrote a lot of words. Seemed confident. The other guy wrote less words, but he's confident too. Then some LOLs and such.

 

I need to hire a capologist. GMing is hard work.

[ngbills]

2 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Not sure if you're trying to be snarky, or just don't understand cap rules.

 

Converting salary to bonus is a typical move, to create additional cap room in current season.  He had a $1.5 base salary (fully guaranteed in 2022), according to Joe they converted it all to bonus.  So Bates will receive that money immediately, and Bills get to spread the $1.5m across his 4 yr deal (hence saving the approx $1.2m).

 

Not sure what's difficult to understand.

He has $1.5M base plus had a $1.5M roster bonus. They took the $1.5M roster bonus and converted that. So instead of the entire $1.5M hitting this years cap, it is now spread across 4 years. So gives you more cap this year and takes away a bit in the next 3 years. 

[Tuco]

28 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Not sure if you're trying to be snarky, or just don't understand cap rules.

 

Converting salary to bonus is a typical move, to create additional cap room in current season.  He had a $1.5 base salary (fully guaranteed in 2022), according to Joe they converted it all to bonus.  So Bates will receive that money immediately, and Bills get to spread the $1.5m across his 4 yr deal (hence saving the approx $1.2m).

 

Not sure what's difficult to understand.

That would leave Bates with a base salary of $0 dollars for the season. That's not allowed. I wasn't really being snarky but let me tell you I understand the cap rules. I wish I had saved a screen shot of Bates contract details from Spotrac when they first went up compared to what they are now. But whether you like it or not, here's the real numbers and how they were changed. (by the way, Bates never had a $1.5 million salary for 2022, it was, and still is, actually $1.45 million)

 

His initial contract looked like this (guaranteed amounts in bold red)-

 

YEAR     --     BASE SALARY    --     PRORATED BONUS   --   ROSTER BONUS   --   WORKOUT BONUS   --   CAP FIGURE

2022     --       $1,450,000      --           $500,000            --  $1,500,000(GTD) --            $50,000            --   $3,500,000

2023     --       $3,900,000     --           $500,000            --               $0               --           $100,000           --   $4,500,000

2024     --       $3,400,000       --           $500,000           --         $500,000          --           $100,000           --   $4,500,000

2025     --       $3,400,000       --           $500,000           --         $500,000          --           $100,000           --   $4,500,000

 

And the new figures with the guaranteed roster bonus converted to signing bonus and prorated look like this -

 

YEAR     --     BASE SALARY    --     PRORATED BONUS   --   ROSTER BONUS   --   WORKOUT BONUS   --   CAP FIGURE

2022     --       $1,450,000      --           $875,000            --               $0              --            $50,000            --   $2,375,000

2023     --       $3,900,000     --           $875,000            --               $0               --           $100,000           --   $4,875,000

2024     --       $3,400,000       --           $875,000           --         $500,000          --           $100,000           --   $4,875,000

2025     --       $3,400,000       --           $875,000           --         $500,000          --           $100,000           --   $4,875,000

 

 

Buscaglia mis-stated when he said they converted base salary. They converted a guaranteed bonus. Not sure what's difficult to understand.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Tuco

[YoloinOhio]

54 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Not even close. Need at least 10 more threads and 300 pages!!🤣

I’m on it. 

[MasterStrategist]

7 minutes ago, Tuco said:

That would leave Bates with a base salary of $0 dollars for the season. That's not allowed. I wasn't really being snarky but let me tell you I understand the cap rules. I wish I had saved a screen shot of Bates contract details from Spotrac when they first went up compared to what they are now. But whether you like it or not, here's the real numbers and how they were changed. (by the way, Bates never had a $1.5 million salary for 2022, it was, and still is, actually $1.45 million)

 

His initial contract looked like this (guaranteed amounts in bold red)-

 

YEAR     --     BASE SALARY    --     PRORATED BONUS   --   ROSTER BONUS   --   WORKOUT BONUS   --   CAP FIGURE

2022     --       $1,450,000      --           $500,000            --  $1,500,000(GTD) --            $50,000            --   $3,500,000

2023     --       $3,900,000     --           $500,000            --               $0               --           $100,000           --   $4,500,000

2024     --       $3,400,000       --           $500,000           --         $500,000          --           $100,000           --   $4,500,000

2025     --       $3,400,000       --           $500,000           --         $500,000          --           $100,000           --   $4,500,000

 

And the new figures with the guaranteed roster bonus converted to signing bonus and prorated look like this -

 

YEAR     --     BASE SALARY    --     PRORATED BONUS   --   ROSTER BONUS   --   WORKOUT BONUS   --   CAP FIGURE

2022     --       $1,450,000      --           $875,000            --               $0              --            $50,000            --   $2,375,000

2023     --       $3,900,000     --           $875,000            --               $0               --           $100,000           --   $4,875,000

2024     --       $3,400,000       --           $875,000           --         $500,000          --           $100,000           --   $4,875,000

2025     --       $3,400,000       --           $875,000           --         $500,000          --           $100,000           --   $4,875,000

 

 

Buscaglia mis-stated when he said they converted base salary. They converted a guaranteed bonus. Not sure what's difficult to understand.

I stand corrected, I misunderstood what was originally reported and what Joe was trying to communicate.

 

Makes sense, thanks for clarifying.  (and I can tell you certainly understand cap 😀).

 

 

[BillsFan130]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

People keep saying that every contract move we make is because “a signing is coming!”.

 

Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but either way…

 

Does anyone out there honestly still believe that Beane ISN’T gonna sign a cornerback at some point? I think there’s just about ZERO chance that they go into the season with just Dane Jackson and a rookie as serious outside corner candidates.

They are stubborn at corner.

 

After the super bowl season in Carolina, MCD and Beane as the assistant GM lost Josh Norman and started 2 rookies in 2016.

 

I think and I HOPE they will address the position in free agency.

 

But it wouldn't shock me if they wait until the draft

[JaCrispy]