Do you take a corner in the first?

[TBBills]

Just now, ganesh said:

It appears that the 4 best CBs in the 1st round will be long gone by the time the Bills will pick.  I think they may have to trade down in the 1st or a trade up to the top of the 2nd to get the 2nd tier ofCBs that they covet.

They will probably move up for one of the 4. If they can't it is probably when they grab one of the FA CB's.

Edited April 9, 2022 by TBBills

[whorlnut]

9 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The offensive line was inconsistent at best in the Chiefs playoff game… it was downright bad at times in fact…. only to have Josh Allen bail it out with ridiculous scrambles and runs….which is exactly BADOLs point. Can’t have Josh putting the offense(and team for that matter) on his back year in and year out. He needs help. The Bills lost arguably their best defensive player in season and played BETTER. The long term success of this team is reliant on Josh Allen and getting him all the help he needs…. It’s not by stacking the defense.

Great point. This corner talk is getting absurd. We still led the entire league in fewest tds allowed. I don’t care about who we played. We played our schedule and the results speak for themselves. Other teams played bad qbs too and didn’t have the stats that or defense did. 
 

I don’t think this regime sees corner the same way as some fans do. They like guys that can keep the receivers in short yardage catch situations and tackle them immediately. We have the best safety duo in the league that helps mask some of the corners’ weaknesses.

 

The defense is fine. In fact, if we don’t add a single other piece to it this off-season, it will be top 5 still. Another poster, who I agree with, says defense mainly matters in the regular season. Once you get to the playoffs and play elite qbs, they will mainly burn any elite corner you have with their elite receivers. Need proof?  Look at the super bowl. Jalen Ramsey, who we all can admit is prob the best corner in the league, looked silly at times against Cinci’s young stud receivers. The pass rush win that game. Not the corners. And oh by the way…we have one of those very pass rushers on our team now. 
 

Go stack the offense. That’s the missing piece to this puzzle. Not some dumb corner that will look lost against a top receiver in a big game. 

[whorlnut]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I remember the Bills scoring one less TD than KC........despite having the ball 2 less times than the Chiefs.

 

And that game was the first time ever that 2 teams that had scored 40 points the week before had met in the playoffs.............it was an extremely unusual situation with 2 healthy, fresh and red-hot offenses matched up.

 

You shouldn't overreact to that.

 

Instead..........focus on the Bills losing 3 AFC games,  to much inferior opponents,  in the span of 5 weeks where the offense scored an average of 11 points!

 

That is hard to reconcile after seeing how dynamic the Bills offense was when they decided to run Josh Allen 10-15 times per game..........but that was their offense before they started that unsustainable practice.

 

Just one more AFC win and that Bills team would have had home field advantage.

 

 

It boggles my mind how the corner jockeys can’t see this. Our offense was terrible for a large stretch this season. Allen did all he could do to keep us in games. Our NUMBER ONE defense did their jobs, but the offense cost us a higher seed in the playoffs. 
 

Im not going to pretend that those issues might not pop up again this season if we don’t get better across the line and at running back. I don’t trust a few games at the end of the year to be the new norm with this offense. Singletary is still slow. The line is still gonna struggle. Allen will still be running for his life. Unless we continue to build the offense with guys on more than one year deals. 

[whorlnut]

2 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Really? The defense couldn't stop the Chiefs from scoring with 13 seconds to go. They couldn't prevent a Chiefs TD in OT. 

 

Allen was the best player on the field. The Bills offense was unstoppable. Yet, the offensive line gets little to no credit. Really?

 

Of course the Bills brass should always look to improve the Oline, running game, and WRs group. That's a given. 

 

Whose talking about "stacking the defense?" I'm talking about filling an obvious whole in the Bills secondary. To think otherwise is just plain denial. 

 

Based on your thesis, I guess you don't approve of the Von Miller pick up but approve of the Saffold move. 

Again…the coaches screwed those 13 seconds up more than anything. They literally did nothing right. The defense was the unit on the field, so it’s easy for people that can’t see the big picture to cherry pick them. 
 

Take that game out of the equation. In fact, ignore everything from the second half of the Bucs game to the end of the season. What was happening for the 5 or 6 games leading up to that. Allen was running for his life cause he had zero blocking and pressure was immediately coming right into his face. Singletary was the slow running back that he is to this day. The defense was playing lights out as it did all season…thus the number one ranking.
 

Our offense could only muster 6 points against a Jags team that had quit on its coach. The offense was THE reason we didn’t play the Chiefs in Buffalo last year. All they needed was one TD against the worst team in the league and they couldn’t get that accomplished. 

2 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

I really like Britt from Nebraska.  Seems like a great fit in this defense.  Might have to take him round 2 though.   Waiting till the end of round 3 he could be gone 

This. There are several corners that we could target later that could be difference makers. I like Taylor-Britt, Josh Williams, Woolen, etc. It doesn’t have to be a first round corner. We can take offense in the first and address corner later. 

[Einstein's Dog]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I would be that everyone agrees that if we sign a starting worthy corner before the draft that changes everything.  This convo is about the current make up of the roster.  
 

Keep in mind, we don’t have any reserve corners either worthy of starting.  We need more than 1 corner.  

Why does it matter when we get the CB?  They should be drafting BPA at a premium position of use regardless of the short term status of the CB.

 

Seems like there might be a price drop after the draft when the FA CB field would be getting very nervous.  So it may be advantageous to the Bills to wait.

 

Also, by waiting until after the draft, Beane may adjust which CB tier he might want.  For instance if the draft falls in such a way that we get Booth then maybe the FO would supplement him with the injury prone Callahan or Sherman (lower price options).  And if the draft falls a different way where J Williams/T Burk is available and CB isn't addressed until round 3 the FA CB would change.  In that case maybe they look to pony up for a more dependable Nelson/Rhodes type.

[Mat68]

If no one is brought in or White isnt announced to be ready for training camp I think you have to.  Trade up for one or take a guy like McCreary.  Cant be a Superbowl with a glaring hole on the roster at a premier position. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Mat68

[newcam2012]

6 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

If no one is brought in or White isnt announced to be ready for training camp I think you have to.  Trade up for one or take a guy like McCreary.  Cant be a Superbowl with a glaring hole on the roster at a premier position. 

Finally a voice of reason. 

[Mat68]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

Finally a voice of reason. 

I expect they have a plan.  Obviously, a trade or an above minimum vet lessens the urgency for one.  Perfect world they bring in a stop gap who can compete with Jackson and/or start for White until healthy.  That allows Buffalo to let the draft fall how it may.

 

 I expect with Beane watching Wildgoose, and Anderson getting claimed he isnt as high on his late rders as he was going into last years draft.  I see them being aggressive and depending how the next few weeks play out it will be clearer what positions they will be targeting. 

[pigpen65]

They are taking a CB first round guaranteed

[whorlnut]

36 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

If no one is brought in or White isnt announced to be ready for training camp I think you have to.  Trade up for one or take a guy like McCreary.  Cant be a Superbowl with a glaring hole on the roster at a premier position. 

McCreary?  The guy with the stubby arms?  Haha. No way. 

[Mat68]

Just now, whorlnut said:

McCreary?  The guy with the stubby arms?  Haha. No way. 

His arm were 2 inches longer he is unquestioned.  With the connection to White I think he is in play.  I used McCreary as an example because he has questions and maybe perceived as a reach.  Give me the guy with Trex arms over Cam Lewis or Siran Neal at the end of the day.  

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

Again…the coaches screwed those 13 seconds up more than anything. They literally did nothing right. The defense was the unit on the field, so it’s easy for people that can’t see the big picture to cherry pick them. 
 

Take that game out of the equation. In fact, ignore everything from the second half of the Bucs game to the end of the season. What was happening for the 5 or 6 games leading up to that. Allen was running for his life cause he had zero blocking and pressure was immediately coming right into his face. Singletary was the slow running back that he is to this day. The defense was playing lights out as it did all season…thus the number one ranking.
 

Our offense could only muster 6 points against a Jags team that had quit on its coach. The offense was THE reason we didn’t play the Chiefs in Buffalo last year. All they needed was one TD against the worst team in the league and they couldn’t get that accomplished. 

This. There are several corners that we could target later that could be difference makers. I like Taylor-Britt, Josh Williams, Woolen, etc. It doesn’t have to be a first round corner. We can take offense in the first and address corner later. 

I'm not cherry picking. The defense failed to stop the Chiefs in overtime. Was that the offenses fault or the coaches? The defense lost the game. The Bills offense was really really good in the playoffs. Allen is elite and he can easily make any decent WR much luck better. Aka Tom Brady. People are acting like the Bills current WR core is sub par. I just don't see it. Of course a young possible elite WR in the draft would be great. That's very subjective to who that will be. With a loaded WR draft class I don't think the Bills have to select and or reach for a WR. If one falls in their lap then fine. However, several teams like Green Bay will ***** the more highly coveted Wrs. 

 

 

[OldTimer1960]

19 hours ago, whorlnut said:

I know plenty about football boss. I also know there are still vets that are unsigned and I know there are other rounds besides the first round to get a rookie. Heck, we developed a UDA and a seventh rounder recently, so o think the odds are VERY high that we don’t use a first rounder on a corner. 

Give me a first round weapon in round 1 and Taylor-Britt or Josh Williams in round 3. 

The argument that they “developed” Wallace and/or Jackson is marginal.  Did they “develop” or did they play because they didn’t have better options.  Even if you stand on your point, then you can equally say that Diggs (5th), Davis (4th) and Crowder (4th) were “developed “.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Why does it matter when we get the CB?  They should be drafting BPA at a premium position of use regardless of the short term status of the CB.

 

Seems like there might be a price drop after the draft when the FA CB field would be getting very nervous.  So it may be advantageous to the Bills to wait.

 

Also, by waiting until after the draft, Beane may adjust which CB tier he might want.  For instance if the draft falls in such a way that we get Booth then maybe the FO would supplement him with the injury prone Callahan or Sherman (lower price options).  And if the draft falls a different way where J Williams/T Burk is available and CB isn't addressed until round 3 the FA CB would change.  In that case maybe they look to pony up for a more dependable Nelson/Rhodes type.

Your response here is your what I don’t understand about the few posters here against taking a CB in the first.  Why does everyone that doesn’t want to take a CB in the first just assume or imply that anyone else here is suggesting we take a CB no matter what?  We all are saying BPA and know Beane will go BPA.
 

We are simply saying it’s 100% obvious that CB it’s our biggest hole, so yes, a CB in the first makes sense IF there is one there worth the pick.  

[ALF]

Interesting project for a later rd

12. Texas-San Antonio image Tariq Woolen, CB, Texas-San Antonio
Height: 6-3. Weight: 205. Arm: 33.50. Hand: 8.63.
40 Time: 4.26.
Vertical: 42.
Projected Round (2022): 2-4.

https://walterfootball.com/draft2022CB.php

 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think @Hapless Bills Fan is right though. The Bills can dial back scheming it... but Josh is still going to run and in big spots when the stakes get higher he will run more and with more abandon. That is just who he is. 

 

 

So you think Allen will be running 6-10 times per regular season game when he's 32?

 

Or are you just saying you think he will be toast by then?

 

The Bills did have a late season game last year(Carolina) where they CLEARLY told him not to run.........and he only ran 3 times.

 

It was ugly because the OL was a swinging gate and he got sacked 4 times...........but he didn't go off script.

 

It's on the Bills to make sure that he's protected better and given a broader range of options in the passing game so he doesn't have to run to keep the ball moving.

 

The playoffs are a different story.   Image the 38 year old John Elway diving for the end zone and getting nailed and spun in the SB against the Packers.

 

Patrick Mahomes runs when the stakes get higher..........he's had some killer runs in the playoffs and also taken some bad hits then too.........but he keeps it in the 2-5 runs per game average in the regular season.

 

That's PLENTY..........and that is where it needs to be.

 

I don't think Allen is as dumb/stubborn as you guys do.........I think he's proven to be more aware than that in how he has addressed his weaknesses.  

 

He is smart enough to get there if the Bills don't make it impossible to do otherwise with their lack of emphasis on offensive talent quality.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I think @Hapless Bills Fan is right though. The Bills can dial back scheming it... but Josh is still going to run and in big spots when the stakes get higher he will run more and with more abandon. That is just who he is. 

 

Yes, that is my point.  2 or 3 runs per game is Tom Brady/Matthew Stafford/Matt Ryan/Drew Brees "classic pocket passer" type rushing frequency.

 

Josh is mentally a different beast. 

He has said in interviews he "needs a little contact", he feels it settles him into the game to get hit.

Beane has said that Josh likes to run, it "gets him going".

You can train the leopard, but don't try to make him change his spots.

Should Josh Allen remain the best running back on the Bills next season?  Absolutely not.  I think everyone here would like to see the designed runs disappear or at worst, get dialed way back.  And I've said multiple times that I feel the Bills have not done enough to upgrade the OL.  Saffold for 1 year is not a long-term plan at IOL.

 

But there's a big step between wanting the Bills to ensure that Josh has a pocket to operate from, and a running game that doesn't depend upon him, vs. thinking he should be instructed/insisted upon to operate as a classic pocket passer.  

 

2020 is probably a more realistic model.  Compared to 2021, Josh had 22 fewer rushes for an average of 18.6 fewer YPG.  He gained 16 fewer 1st downs.  More importantly, he had almost half the YAC - 1.3 vs 2.4 yards after contact per attempt - and 1/3 of the broken tackles - 4 vs 12.

 

All this on 6.4 vs 7.3 attempts per game. 

 

The point is, it's not the attempts per game that are the problem per se, nor Josh using his tremendous athleticism to be an occasional 3rd option on a RPO or to gain 2-5 yds and SLIDE or get OOB on a broken play.  He doesn't need to have someone dunking on him to stay in the pocket like a Labrador with an "invisible fence". 

 

The problem (IMO) and what should be eliminated, is the use of Josh on designed QB runs as a critical aspect of an effective run game, which @BADOLBILZ correctly notes the Bills did in 3 of 5 games at the end of the season (TAM, NE, and ATL).   That's what's gotta go.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Part of Allen's greatness is his mobility and his legs. What evidence do you have that makes you think his running isn't sustainable? Allen's duel threat only makes the Bills offense that much better. Sure, it can be dailed back some due to injury concerns. However, to make Allen a pure pocket passer is limiting his skills and the Bills offense. Allen's greatness is as stable and intact as ever. 

 

I don't agree with your analysis of the secondary being a " moving target." With regards to the secondary you said "all fixes are temporary." Huh? That's really confusing. Lastly, changes are made every year in almost all facets of the team. The OL is not the exception. 

 

 

The evidence I have is that no QB has even come close to being able to running the ball that much and maintained their ability as a QB for a decade let alone the 15+ years that we expect/need from Allen.   The punished passers of the past were topping out between 3-4 runs per game for most of their careers.  Allen ran 15 times against a sh*tty Atlanta team last year. 

 

He's a great athlete........but save the running for the playoffs.

 

His greatest attribute by far is his right arm.........the ability to make defenses defend the first 30 yards from the LOS the way they would normally only have to defend the first 15 yards.

 

That skill is so much greater than his running ability...........it is criminal to let him get beat up and potentially undermine his potential to be so great BEHIND the LOS.

 

Have we learned nothing from watching Tom Brady..........less hits = healthier body = the ability to execute in the pass game for a LONG time.

 

As for my comment about all defensive fixes are temporary..........it's based on the statistical fact that defensive success is much more difficult to maintain than offensive success.    Defense's turn over fast.   There is no elite QB on that side of the ball that can guarantee you a minimum level of success.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So you think Allen will be running 6-10 times per regular season game when he's 32?

 

 

Yes in the biggest games where the stakes are biggest I do. 

[BADOLBILZ]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

2 or 3 runs per game is Tom Brady/Matthew Stafford/Matt Ryan/Drew Brees "classic pocket passer" type rushing frequency.

 

 

Classic use of the under-sell to act like 2-3 is a ridiculously low bar.

 

In reality,  3-4 rushes per game is John Elway and Steve Young  "classic scrambler/runner but still a great passer" type rushing frequency.

 

Like I said........Allen had more rushes from the late season Tampa game on(59) than John Elway had in any season but 1..........and that one season where Elway had more he ended up injured.

 

Allen may be a different beast...........but it's not worth the risk.

 

The only comp is Cam Newton and we know how that went after 6-7 years as a top QB.

 

I'm probably different than a lot of folks here in that I'm not a finish line fan...........my intention is not for the Bills to just win one SB and then whatever happens next is fine...........I invest a lot of time going to the games and I want AS MUCH great football from Josh Allen as I can get.

 

So the finish liners can worry about filling holes on paper.............my concern is them doing what's best for the franchise QB..........which in turn will give them the best chance to win a SB.........whether it feels that way to some or not.