Do you take a corner in the first?

[newcam2012]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

What about the 64 yard TD to Hill before that that out us behind again with just over a minute left to play needing a TD?  Or the drive in OT?  We gave up 42 points and 17 points in under 3 minutes to end game.  We scored 36 points…who was worse?  Clearly the defense again
 

Also, the majority of the best WRs in football were not taken in the first round.  Hill, Adam’s, Diggs, Kupp (arguably 4 of the top 5 playing), Deebo, Metcalf, AJ Brown we’re all taken in other rounds.  Not to mention top end WRs like Keenan Allen, McLaurin and so many more.  This notion we need a first round WR (when we have one the best WR corps in the league) is really not based on historical data.  
 

And we all know our top flight D last year statistically was padded through and easy schedule.  They didn’t always look so top flight against the better offenses we faced.  And now we don’t have our two starting corners from that defense either to start the year potentially.

Agree 100%. The top need for the Bills is a CB. It's a glaring need that's undeniable. The argument that a CB can be drafted later can be easily said about a WR. If a CB is closely graded to any other position the Bills should absolutely take a CB at pick 25. I do think Beane may add a atop gap veteran CB. If so, that my lead to a highly rated CB in the 2nd round. Its a hypothetical at this point. With that said, the CB has to be addressed ASAP. 

[BADOLBILZ]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think you're ever going to limit Josh to 2-5 times per game.  That's just not how he's wired.

 

Career, he's 6.9 attempts per game with a low of 6.4 (2020) and a high of 7.4

 

 

 

Never?

 

Well that will be a very short career as a franchise QB then, unfortunately.

 

Generally speaking 2-5 carries is all that's been proven sustainable for mobile, body reckless type franchise QB's like John Elway, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Mahomes etc.............so it's time to make like that Panthers game last year and tell Josh to stay in the pocket and figure it out during the regular season........before it's too late.

 

Some of you are much too casual in brushing off the mention of double digit carries by a QB in a game..........that is an out-of-hand situation and it was THE NORM late last year because of shortcomings on the OL and a lack of YAC in the corps.

 

[njbuff]

If the Bills don’t trade up, I think all the good CB’s will be gone by 25.

 

If the aspersion is to win the SB, then I don’t mind giving up the 32nd pick in the 2023 draft to move way up and get a top CB. But that’s just me. 😁

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What did they do to improve the personnel on their OL that allowed 125 combined pressures/sacks? 

 

Saffold is a step back in pass protection and can't play tackle like Williams in the event of Brown being sidelined with back issues again.

 

They simply saved some money swapping Williams out for Saffold......but took on more age and injury risk in Saffold.

 

There is a better chance that the much younger and better player in Tre White comes back and plays a full slate of games at high quality than there is that Saffold plays at a high level for 17+playoffs.

 

 Saffold is a guy you can count on as a half season starter, IMO.  This years version Emmanuel Sanders.........but with the terrible Cody Ford as his backup not a promising young vet like Gabe Davis.

 

And they are missing one starting CB.......Levi Wallace.   Dane Jackson was the starter during the best stretch of the Bills season.......December and January.

 

He is as good of a starting CB in this system as Ryan Bates is a guard.......he literally started more games than Bates yet you say that Josh Allen is setup to succeed with Bates and Jackson doesn't even count as a starter?

 

Dane Jackson put up 41 tackles and his 70 passer rating allowed was lower than two of Tre White's season ratings in his career.    He can start and play well in the Bills system.

 

I get the concern but you are clearly in panic mode about something they've always done well enough to rank among the best in the league........pass defense...........and whistling past the graveyard that is the OL as a whole and their depth at WR...........positions where weakness has undermined them on a broad scale.......ENTIRE SEASONS.........not just one game each year.   

I disagree with your take. The CB position is sub par and a weakness on the Bills roster. Tre will not be Tre for awhile. He's going to miss plenty of games. Hopefully, by playoff time he is hitting his mark. Jackson looks serviceable but let's not pretend like he's anything but that. Imho, the CB position is the teams greatest need. No panic here.

 

Of course the OL is still a concern. However, you fail to mention how well they played after the 1st half of the Tampa game. The OL was really really solid and probably better than that. The run game was solid and Allen had more time to throw. Yet, you wanna throw mud on Saffold who brings super bowl experience and veteran leadership to the OL. Perhaps that's not much of a positive in your book. 

 

The WR core is solid with Diggs, Davis, Crowder, and McKenzie. Add in Knox and OJ to the mix too. Allen is elite and elite QBs make Wrs. Just ask Tom Brady if you don't believe me. Adams will not look half as good without Rogers. This draft is loaded with Wrs. The ones with the most potential will likely be gone by pick 25. Many wide receivers picked in the latter rounds have done well. Not sure pick 25 is wise to pick up a luxury WR. I'm hoping a solid highly graded CB is picked that can contribute immediately. 

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree 100%. The top need for the Bills is a CB. It's a glaring need that's undeniable. The argument that a CB can be drafted later can be easily said about a WR. If a CB is closely graded to any other position the Bills should absolutely take a CB at pick 25. I do think Beane may add a atop gap veteran CB. If so, that my lead to a highly rated CB in the 2nd round. Its a hypothetical at this point. With that said, the CB has to be addressed ASAP. 

No, the CB does not have to be addressed ASAP.  It actually might be able to wait until after the draft.  There are a glut of FA CB -  Fuller/Haden/Rhodes/Nelson/Jenkins/Callahan/Gilmore/Sherman etc. 

 

Who FA do you recommend for the Sanders vacancy?  Going FA route gives you Julio (possible but I suspect pricey), Landry (estimated $12M spotrac), Fuller (maybe but injury riddled coming off $10M), Beas (seriously, that's who you want?), Sanders (a year older doesn't help).  See the problem?

 

You draft BPA at a premium postion of use. If the pick is closely graded you do not take the CB, you take the WR and upgrade the FA CB accordingly.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I disagree with your take. The CB position is sub par and a weakness on the Bills roster. Tre will not be Tre for awhile. He's going to miss plenty of games. Hopefully, by playoff time he is hitting his mark. Jackson looks serviceable but let's not pretend like he's anything but that. Imho, the CB position is the teams greatest need. No panic here.

 

Of course the OL is still a concern. However, you fail to mention how well they played after the 1st half of the Tampa game. The OL was really really solid and probably better than that. The run game was solid and Allen had more time to throw. Yet, you wanna throw mud on Saffold who brings super bowl experience and veteran leadership to the OL. Perhaps that's not much of a positive in your book. 

 

The WR core is solid with Diggs, Davis, Crowder, and McKenzie. Add in Knox and OJ to the mix too. Allen is elite and elite QBs make Wrs. Just ask Tom Brady if you don't believe me. Adams will not look half as good without Rogers. This draft is loaded with Wrs. The ones with the most potential will likely be gone by pick 25. Many wide receivers picked in the latter rounds have done well. Not sure pick 25 is wise to pick up a luxury WR. I'm hoping a solid highly graded CB is picked that can contribute immediately. 

 

 

 

 

I've mentioned MANY times that the Bills addressed the lack of good blocking by using Josh Allen like a running back.

 

Some of you are far too casual about them rushing Allen sometimes 10-15 times per game in many games down the stretch...........a fair amount of those by design.

 

They didn't fix the blocking...........they just made it so defense's couldn't hit Allen until he'd GAINED some yardage.

 

That's not sustainable.

 

To put it in perspective...........Josh Allen had more rushes just from the Tampa game thru the KC game(59) than the famously reckless John Elway had in any entire season of his career but one.

 

They need to make the pocket a place where Allen can be comfortable throwing from..........this wear and tear shouldn't be encouraged by half stepping wrt offensive personnel............keeping him at his best is job #1 of the Bills organization.   

 

The secondary is a moving target.........changes will need to be made almost every year......defensive success is very hard to sustain..........all fixes are very temporary.

 

The QB position needs to be stable and the GREATNESS of Allen needs to be kept intact as long as possible.

 

 

[newcam2012]

4 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

No, the CB does not have to be addressed ASAP.  It actually might be able to wait until after the draft.  There are a glut of FA CB -  Fuller/Haden/Rhodes/Nelson/Jenkins/Callahan/Gilmore/Sherman etc. 

 

Who FA do you recommend for the Sanders vacancy?  Going FA route gives you Julio (possible but I suspect pricey), Landry (estimated $12M spotrac), Fuller (maybe but injury riddled coming off $10M), Beas (seriously, that's who you want?), Sanders (a year older doesn't help).  See the problem?

 

You draft BPA at a premium postion of use. If the pick is closely graded you do not take the CB, you take the WR and upgrade the FA CB accordingly.

Did you read the end of my post?   I talked about adding a stop gap CB which would likely lead to no CB picked at 25. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by newcam2012

[Einstein's Dog]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Did you read the end of my post?  

Literally the end of your post was "the CB has to be addressed ASAP".

 

It does not.  It can wait.  There are a lot of CBs and the best deals may be after the draft.

[BillsShredder83]

Im truely of the belief Beane signs a vet CB, and then we can draft by very literally BPA... and were going to need it to plug some holes. Saffold, OJ Howard, Edmunds, Poyer, and Singletary are all at diff levels of definitely gone to likely gone.  WR depth is thin already if an outside guy goes down, and Crowder is on a one year deal. CB Depth is thin. 

Luckily we have this draft and next years draft to start addressing these. BPA with a great roster is a luxury most teams don't have. Add some firepower to this years roster,while at the same time getting next years starters in house for depth, and to start grooming for next year. Helluva feeling

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

 13 seconds, remember? So much for our number one defense.

Relax. As long as we have Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs, Gabriel Davis, and Knox healthy, we're ok. We have no probs getting first downs. A good defense is incredibly difficult to put together AND to keep together long term.

 

A WR will be drafted LATER in the draft.

 

 

I remember the Bills scoring one less TD than KC........despite having the ball 2 less times than the Chiefs.

 

And that game was the first time ever that 2 teams that had scored 40 points the week before had met in the playoffs.............it was an extremely unusual situation with 2 healthy, fresh and red-hot offenses matched up.

 

You shouldn't overreact to that.

 

Instead..........focus on the Bills losing 3 AFC games,  to much inferior opponents,  in the span of 5 weeks where the offense scored an average of 11 points!

 

That is hard to reconcile after seeing how dynamic the Bills offense was when they decided to run Josh Allen 10-15 times per game..........but that was their offense before they started that unsustainable practice.

 

Just one more AFC win and that Bills team would have had home field advantage.

 

 

[Einstein's Dog]

3 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Im truely of the belief Beane signs a vet CB, and then we can draft by very literally BPA... and were going to need it to plug some holes. Saffold, OJ Howard, Edmunds, Poyer, and Singletary are all at diff levels of definitely gone to likely gone.  WR depth is thin already if an outside guy goes down, and Crowder is on a one year deal. CB Depth is thin. 

Luckily we have this draft and next years draft to start addressing these. BPA with a great roster is a luxury most teams don't have. Add some firepower to this years roster,while at the same time getting next years starters in house for depth, and to start grooming for next year. Helluva feeling

My point is you don't have to sign a vet CB and then draft BPA.  You draft BPA with the confidence that you will be signing a vet CB at some point. 

 

It doesn't have to be before the draft, not if the price is not where Beane wants it.  There is a strong case that there could be a significant price drop with regard to CB signings after the draft.  If the current glut of CBs don't sign prior to the draft, the demand for their services takes a serious drop after 5-10 teams load up with first or second round CBs.

[BillsShredder83]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Unfortunately I think they go defense first round… they can’t help themselves. 

If its BPA at any position needing a re-stock this year or next, I can live with it. Would prefer a guy on offense: OL, WR, TE, even RB wouldnt feel as gross as most years even, as long as we pull a future stud im ok w/ whatever

[Alphadawg7]

3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You simply don't care about protecting and preserving the franchise QB............clearly not the top priority to you.

 

The Bills offense lost 3 conference games in a 5 game stretch and scored less than 20 in all of them in October and November...........prior to turning Josh Allen into a battering ram to combat their league worst kinda' pass blocking OL.

 

He can't be expected to run 11, 12, 15 times per game again.........that number needs to be more like 2-5 times........MAX. 

 

Otherwise the franchise QB is going to end up like Cam Newton.........a shelf life like the Seattle Legion of Boom defense instead of 20 years like modern franchise QB's.

 

The Josh Allen is "set up to succeed"nonsense is 

 

 

 

 

Again neither I or anybody else has said anything remotely close to what you’re implying.  You literally keep making up false narratives in like every

Edited April 9, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Einstein's Dog said:

No, the CB does not have to be addressed ASAP.  It actually might be able to wait until after the draft.  There are a glut of FA CB -  Fuller/Haden/Rhodes/Nelson/Jenkins/Callahan/Gilmore/Sherman etc. 

 

Who FA do you recommend for the Sanders vacancy?  Going FA route gives you Julio (possible but I suspect pricey), Landry (estimated $12M spotrac), Fuller (maybe but injury riddled coming off $10M), Beas (seriously, that's who you want?), Sanders (a year older doesn't help).  See the problem?

 

You draft BPA at a premium postion of use. If the pick is closely graded you do not take the CB, you take the WR and upgrade the FA CB accordingly.

 

I would be that everyone agrees that if we sign a starting worthy corner before the draft that changes everything.  This convo is about the current make up of the roster.  
 

Keep in mind, we don’t have any reserve corners either worthy of starting.  We need more than 1 corner.  

Edited April 9, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

Bottom line:  Beane will go BPA.  And he may move up for a targeted player.  
 

Corner in the first will 100% depend on how the draft falls because Beane won’t reach for need at 25.  And if there is someone he covets at any position, we know he’s not afraid to make a move to get him.  So what we do, as usual, will absolutely be dependent on how it falls. 
 

But the argument that CB isn’t the biggest need is inaccurate.  Biggest need doesn’t automatically mean it will be the first pick either.  But it’s literally undeniable that our weakest position on the team TODAY is CB right now.  

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Never?

 

Well that will be a very short career as a franchise QB then, unfortunately.

 

Generally speaking 2-5 carries is all that's been proven sustainable for mobile, body reckless type franchise QB's like John Elway, Steve Young, Brett Favre, Mahomes etc.............so it's time to make like that Panthers game last year and tell Josh to stay in the pocket and figure it out during the regular season........before it's too late.

 

Some of you are much too casual in brushing off the mention of double digit carries by a QB in a game..........that is an out-of-hand situation and it was THE NORM late last year because of shortcomings on the OL and a lack of YAC in the corps.

 

 

I think @Hapless Bills Fan is right though. The Bills can dial back scheming it... but Josh is still going to run and in big spots when the stakes get higher he will run more and with more abandon. That is just who he is. 

[newcam2012]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I've mentioned MANY times that the Bills addressed the lack of good blocking by using Josh Allen like a running back.

 

Some of you are far too casual about them rushing Allen sometimes 10-15 times per game in many games down the stretch...........a fair amount of those by design.

 

They didn't fix the blocking...........they just made it so defense's couldn't hit Allen until he'd GAINED some yardage.

 

That's not sustainable.

 

To put it in perspective...........Josh Allen had more rushes just from the Tampa game thru the KC game(59) than the famously reckless John Elway had in any entire season of his career but one.

 

They need to make the pocket a place where Allen can be comfortable throwing from..........this wear and tear shouldn't be encouraged by half stepping wrt offensive personnel............keeping him at his best is job #1 of the Bills organization.   

 

The secondary is a moving target.........changes will need to be made almost every year......defensive success is very hard to sustain..........all fixes are very temporary.

 

The QB position needs to be stable and the GREATNESS of Allen needs to be kept intact as long as possible.

 

 

Part of Allen's greatness is his mobility and his legs. What evidence do you have that makes you think his running isn't sustainable? Allen's duel threat only makes the Bills offense that much better. Sure, it can be dailed back some due to injury concerns. However, to make Allen a pure pocket passer is limiting his skills and the Bills offense. Allen's greatness is as stable and intact as ever. 

 

I don't agree with your analysis of the secondary being a " moving target." With regards to the secondary you said "all fixes are temporary." Huh? That's really confusing. Lastly, changes are made every year in almost all facets of the team. The OL is not the exception. 

[newcam2012]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

The offensive line was inconsistent at best in the Chiefs playoff game… it was downright bad at times in fact…. only to have Josh Allen bail it out with ridiculous scrambles and runs….which is exactly BADOLs point. Can’t have Josh putting the offense(and team for that matter) on his back year in and year out. He needs help. The Bills lost arguably their best defensive player in season and played BETTER. The long term success of this team is reliant on Josh Allen and getting him all the help he needs…. It’s not by stacking the defense.

Really? The defense couldn't stop the Chiefs from scoring with 13 seconds to go. They couldn't prevent a Chiefs TD in OT. 

 

Allen was the best player on the field. The Bills offense was unstoppable. Yet, the offensive line gets little to no credit. Really?

 

Of course the Bills brass should always look to improve the Oline, running game, and WRs group. That's a given. 

 

Whose talking about "stacking the defense?" I'm talking about filling an obvious whole in the Bills secondary. To think otherwise is just plain denial. 

 

Based on your thesis, I guess you don't approve of the Von Miller pick up but approve of the Saffold move. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by newcam2012

[GolfandBills]

I really like Britt from Nebraska.  Seems like a great fit in this defense.  Might have to take him round 2 though.   Waiting till the end of round 3 he could be gone 

[ganesh]

It appears that the 4 best CBs in the 1st round will be long gone by the time the Bills will pick.  I think they may have to trade down in the 1st or a trade up to the top of the 2nd to get the 2nd tier ofCBs that they covet.