Do you take a corner in the first?

Straight Hucklebuck · April 8, 2022

13 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I’m not opposed to a good OL in the first, but generally you want a T in the 1st not G. I don’t think that any of the top OTs will be around at 25. Would you stretch for Tyler Smith who can play G and then maybe challenge Spencer Brown next year? Do you take Green or Johnson? Greek played some T in college (I think), but he doesn’t look to me like he is capable of doing that in the NFL.

I'm not sure how Tommy Doyle is progressing, but I kind of agree on Tackle. Cordy Glenn years ago worked as a second round pick, is that common?

The Bills seem to value versatility, so if a great lineman is there, I don't mind the Bills grabbing them. How much would Creed Humphrey helped last year?

Josh Allen escapes bad OLine play, but overall, I agree it's not fixed and it's not a strength.

It would just push WR and CB to the next two positions that must be addressed.

Magox · April 8, 2022

Don’t get me wrong, I love the idea of getting a WR with the first pick but with the Diggs deal and the glaring hole at CB, I believe the odds of a CB with the 1st pick are rising, unless they get a quality FA CB. If that happens I could see the Bills drafting CB with either a 2nd-4th round picks and wouldn’t be surprised if they chose two.

If they get a value FA CB to compete for a spot then I think they go 1st round CB.

There are a lot of good WR’s that I believe will be able to contribute that could be had with 2nd/3rd round picks. I could see Beane holding off until then to get one of those guys.

Alec Pearce is a guy I think could be a real steal.

Alphadawg7 · April 8, 2022

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The #1 objective of any franchise should be to protect and support up their franchise QB...........if they get hurt or underperform.......nothing else really matters.......you aren't winning.

The Bills defense was #1 last season.......on the strength of pass defense............and that was with UDFA Levi Wallace starting at one position and without Von Miller, Tim Settle and Jordan Phillips.

The Bills offensive line meanwhile.........allowed 125 combined pressures and sacks..........they were arguably the worst pass blocking unit in the league.........and they did not improve their personnel in that aspect in trading out Daryl Williams for Rodger Saffold. Saffold did not grade out well in pass pro.

And during their mid-season slump one GLARING need that was evident was a fast receiver who could get YAC..........the Bills ranked LAST in the NFL in YAC and have subtracted from their WR corps and haven't added any notable YAC talent.

So while your opinion is that the Bills defense can't possibly defend well enough without better CB play than they had last season............that doesn't jive with the facts that we know about this team.

So while you think you can see the future........... clearly I know more facts about this team than you.

Like most people I expect the Bills to address the CB position with a veteran who will probably be better than Levi Wallace was. I also expect them to draft one in the first 3 rounds to develop.........not necessarily expecting them to play every snap like a 1st rounder would be expected to. I also expect one of Lewis, McCloud and Griffin to stick and one or both of the others to be on the PS and to be able to step in and provide adequate play behind a good pass rush. This has always happened under McDermott.

So while CB is definitely a position they need more depth at.........that has literally been said every year since McDermott arrived and it hasn't proven to be at the top of their weaknesses in ANY of those seasons.

Yet in the playoffs against the Chiefs they couldn’t keep up with the speed of the Chiefs.

And now our all pro CB may not be here to start the season, or even be himself most the season. And Levi who is better than Dane is gone. So we have our THRID CB from last year as our only current “starter” and we don’t have either of our starters from last year.

Meanwhile, Bates was brought back who stabilized our line last year and and we added Saffold.

CB is BY FAR our current weakest position on the roster. If you can’t see that, then I don’t know what to tell you.

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

I'm fine with a cb in the first - but not if its some... 2nd/3rd round talent we have to reach for. I think oline is a huge need though. Boettger stinks, ford really stinks, and bates has barely played LG let alone RG where he's now the starter. Brown played alright at times, but he gets penalties, and shouldn't just be plugged right in at RT without some competition. I don't even know who the swing tackle is behind them, doyle? Great.. Our backup Center very likely sucks - i've never seen him play but... i don't see why I'd count on him as anything other than roster fodder.

By no means should they reach for a CB, that’s why I said in my first post it depends how the draft falls. If one isn’t there then I think they will certainly take one in the 2nd. And if one isn’t there in the 2nd then it would shock me to see them go back to back in those mid rounds. And I think it’s very possible we draft 2 in the first four or five rounds because it’s the shallowest position on this roster too.

BADOLBILZ · April 8, 2022

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I agree that the Bills still have needs on the offensive side of the ball - most notably on OL as well as needing to continue to take shots in the draft at improving our receiving corps. (I think the mid-season slump wasn't caused by lack of a YAC WR and wouldn't have been fixed by one dropping in from the sky, but Another Day, Another Discussion)

That said, while I'm No Way a fan of a big trade up that costs us draft picks, a cogent argument can be made that while the Bills defense has been good enough to win enough regular season games with the CB play we have had...it hasn't been good enough to CLINCH THE DEAL against some of the better teams and in the playoffs.

Yes, McDermott runs a DB-friendly system, and it's been able to handle plugging in a lesser player at CB #2. That said, when we had two lesser players on the field in Levi Wallace and Dane Jackson, it didn't work well enough to stop KC in the divisional round or even slow them down too much. And expect new Miami coach Mike McDaniel to be power-studying that film. It doesn't seem too arguable that better pass rush alone won't seal the deal against teams that have both a run and a pass threat, and that employ the quick passing game to get the ball out before the best pass rush can get there.

The bottom line is that McDermott's defenses have historically been very good, but not Good Enough. Sure, we need to protect and support the QB...but Championship teams do need a defense as well.

1) Yes the OL play was the majority of the problem with the team during the mid-season swoon. 3 losses with under 20 points scored. But what the poor protection also exposed was that Allen couldn't just get the ball out quickly and have a receiver make a play against over-sold pass rushing defenses. I've illustrated the screen passes that John Brown had taken to the house in similarly closely contested games against Seattle and Baltimore in prior seasons. That was not an option in Jacksonville or at home versus New England. The primary solution is better pass blocking to avoid having to use Allen like a battering ram.......but whether you think a lack of YAC is signinficant or not.........they finished DEAD LAST in the NFL in YAC. When you are DFL context doesn't provide much excuse........it's a proven weakness.

2) As far as "clinch(ing) the deal"........what's been consistently lacking in the two playoff games in KC is pass rush. Mahomes didn't just shred the McDefense from the pocket.........he had all day to throw and literally wore the Bills defense down by extending plays for 4+ quarters. We all knew this after that game. Now 3 months of over-thinking it later an exhausted back 7 group of defenders has been re-cast as unable to cover anyone for any reasonable amount of time all game. That's not what happened. If Hughes doesn't fall down and Allen never throws that last TD pass with 13 seconds left..........and the Chiefs take a knee and win it..........the big story would probably be again not even getting to the requisite 30+ point minimum to beat a healthy and fresh KC team at home..........and of course Stefon Diggs tragic 3 catches for just 6 yards.

3) The Bills addressed the primary cause for their defensive struggles against the league's most feared offense. Pass rush. You literally don't even mention that. But they didn't lose both games just because of defense........the offense was terrible in the AFCCG........the only TD they scored before garbage time was after a fumble recovery near the Chiefs goal line. The level of paranoia about stacking talent on defense and the "leave it to Josh to elevate everyone on offense" mentality is very "offseason" "on paper" thinking that doesn't hold up when the pads start popping.

BADOLBILZ · April 8, 2022

32 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yet in the playoffs against the Chiefs they couldn’t keep up with the speed of the Chiefs.

And now our all pro CB may not be here to start the season, or even be himself most the season. And Levi who is better than Dane is gone. So we have our THRID CB from last year as our only current “starter” and we don’t have either of our starters from last year.

Meanwhile, Bates was brought back who stabilized our line last year and and we added Saffold.

CB is BY FAR our current weakest position on the roster. If you can’t see that, then I don’t know what to tell you.

By no means should they reach for a CB, that’s why I said in my first post it depends how the draft falls. If one isn’t there then I think they will certainly take one in the 2nd. And if one isn’t there in the 2nd then it would shock me to see them go back to back in those mid rounds. And I think it’s very possible we draft 2 in the first four or five rounds because it’s the shallowest position on this roster too.

They have played Tyreek Hill 4 times in the past two years and shut him down twice...........just so happens that the other two games were the playoff games and the pass rush simply wasn't good enough to lay a finger on Mahomes...........who proceeded to extend plays over and over...........until the defense was EXHAUSTED.

Beane knows that.........and acted accordingly..........you don't, then I don't know what to tell you.

You clearly are caught up in the perceived need of the moment........and obviously don't think that the success of this team is primarily about putting Josh Allen in position to succeed...........and that's inexplicable.........because it's absolutely the reality.

Alphadawg7 · April 8, 2022

29 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

1) Yes the OL play was the majority of the problem with the team during the mid-season swoon. 3 losses with under 20 points scored. But what the poor protection also exposed was that Allen couldn't just get the ball out quickly and have a receiver make a play against over-sold pass rushing defenses. I've illustrated the screen passes that John Brown had taken to the house in similarly closely contested games against Seattle and Baltimore in prior seasons. That was not an option in Jacksonville or at home versus New England. The primary solution is better pass blocking to avoid having to use Allen like a battering ram.......but whether you think a lack of YAC is signinficant or not.........they finished DEAD LAST in the NFL in YAC. When you are DFL context doesn't provide much excuse........it's a proven weakness.

2) As far as "clinch(ing) the deal"........what's been consistently lacking in the two playoff games in KC is pass rush. Mahomes didn't just shred the McDefense from the pocket.........he had all day to throw and literally wore the Bills defense down by extending plays for 4+ quarters. We all knew this after that game. Now 3 months of over-thinking it later an exhausted back 7 group of defenders has been re-cast as unable to cover anyone for any reasonable amount of time all game. That's not what happened. If Hughes doesn't fall down and Allen never throws that last TD pass with 13 seconds left..........and the Chiefs take a knee and win it..........the big story would probably be again not even getting to the requisite 30+ point minimum to beat a healthy and fresh KC team at home..........and of course Stefon Diggs tragic 3 catches for just 6 yards.

3) The Bills addressed the primary cause for their defensive struggles against the league's most feared offense. Pass rush. You literally don't even mention that. But they didn't lose both games just because of defense........the offense was terrible in the AFCCG........the only TD they scored before garbage time was after a fumble recovery near the Chiefs goal line. The level of paranoia about stacking talent on defense and the "leave it to Josh to elevate everyone on offense" mentality is very "offseason" "on paper" thinking that doesn't hold up when the pads start popping.

Why did we lose in the playoffs? Defense couldn't stop KC at all. Offense was a juggernaught...defense was not.

You are wrong. Sorry, just facts.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Alphadawg7

BADOLBILZ · April 8, 2022

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Why did we lose in the playoffs? Defense couldn't stop KC at all. Offense was a juggernaught...defense was not.

You are wrong. Sorry, just facts.

You edited that? :lol:

That Bills@KC divisional game was the first playoff game in NFL history where two teams that had scored 40 points the week before met up the following week.

And NE and Pitt weren't exactly BAD defense's.

Both defense's got torched in the division round.

By virtue of the Bills losing two coin flips........the Chiefs had two extra possessions.......and won by one score.

Do the math. You are over-thinking it.

Judging your entire #1 ranked defense on the most unique such situation in NFL history...........as opposed to addressing the problems that plagued your team for the first 3/4 of the season.........causing you to be on the road in the playoffs..........well I agree that is a good way to get yourself another crack at playing in KC in the playoffs.

Edited April 8, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

Alphadawg7 · April 8, 2022

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Offense was far from a juggernaut… they had some head scratching play calling throughout the 3rd quarter and punted 4 times in the game… compared to KC who punted it twice… The defense did suck, but in a gigantic game against the best QB in the league chances are your defense will struggle… You aren’t going to win that type of game against that type of offense when you punt the ball 4 times IMO.

I am sorry, but here is absolutely no truth to the statement that we lost that game because our offense wasn't good enough. Its just that simple.

Josh Allen averaged 318.5 yards passing, 67 yards rushing, 4.5 TDs, and no interceptions in 2 playoff games. Our offense was fantastic.

This notion that you somehow expect the offense to be perfect with your "four punts" comment is unrealistic, and that was LARGE in part to our play calling in the first half by Daboll which was terrible, not because of personnel. We put up 36 points and lost, that is more than enough. And I don't want to hear about how our defense is just going to struggle because we are facing the best QB in the league. Want to know why that is total nonsense to me:

2020 - Chiefs offense had their way with Bills defense in the AFCCG just to go onto the SB and see the Bucs defense shut them down and win the SB.
2021 - Chiefs offense again had their way with the Bills defense in the 2nd round of the playoffs just to go on to the AFCCG and get completely shut down in the 2nd half by the Bengals defense.

I mean its literally defense that has bounced the Chiefs from the playoffs despite being SB favorites both years...but only after that same Chiefs team trounced the Bills defense both years.

So I don't want to hear from anyone about how our offense, that averaged 41.5 points in the playoffs, somehow wasn't good enough to get to the SB. Especially when our defense gave up 42 points to the Chiefs and 17 points in the final 3 minutes of that playoff game. Which included a 64 yard TD pass to Hill with just over a minute left in the game as he waved goodbye to everyone he was running past with ease. Which included giving up a FG with 13 seconds left in the game. Which included giving up an opening TD drive in OT to lose the game.

Defense is absolutely the reason we did not advance to the SB, that isn't an opinion, its absolute fact Yet this fabled Chiefs offense that any defense will "struggle against" supposedly was shutdown and bounced from the playoffs a week later thanks to defense, just like the SB the year before.

I am not saying we will absolutely take a CB in the first...I said it before, its going to be BPA and I do not expect Beane to reach. So if a player of another position is clearly the BPA on Beanes board, I expect he will take that person, as he should. But, there is no debate that the biggest hole on this team and the thinnest position on the whole roster is starting CB right now.

Alphadawg7 · April 8, 2022

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

They have played Tyreek Hill 4 times in the past two years and shut him down twice...........just so happens that the other two games were the playoff games and the pass rush simply wasn't good enough to lay a finger on Mahomes...........who proceeded to extend plays over and over...........until the defense was EXHAUSTED.

Beane knows that.........and acted accordingly..........you don't, then I don't know what to tell you.

You clearly are caught up in the perceived need of the moment........and obviously don't think that the success of this team is primarily about putting Josh Allen in position to succeed...........and that's inexplicable.........because it's absolutely the reality.

I literally didn't say any of those things.

Josh is setup to succeed, they improved the OL, brought in a dangerous slot weapon in Crowder, extended Diggs, added OJ Howard. I mean you are delusional if you don't think the offense has been upgraded this year already, an offense that averaged 41.5 points in the playoffs and still got bounced.

And we upgraded our pass rush in Miller, but we are MISSING our TWO starting corners from last year. We have no starters on our roster ready for week 1. We have a BACKUP CB we HOPE can be relied upon to start even though he was absued by the Chiefs in the playoffs last year. We have an all pro recovering from a bad injury that may not have him ready to start the season, and even if he is, could take part of or even all of the season to rebound back to his previous form.

Again, you absolutely incorrect that CB isn't a bigger need than something on offense. We will absolutely draft some offense, and we could round 1. Beane will stay true to his BPA I expect, so if there is not a corner they covet at 25, he wont reach and he will take another position. But, to say CB is not the biggest need is beyond ridiculous.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Alphadawg7

GreggTX · April 8, 2022

If it's not an outside CB it had better be someone that can step right in and shore up the right side of our OL or we're going to have serious problems there. I think it has to be a CB because there will be a dropoff in talent after the first few. RG/RT/CB are far and away the biggest needs. Beane can say publicly that we have no holes in our roster, but we clearly have 3 moon sized craters. We could use better depth at RB and replacements for Edmunds and Poyer if we can't keep them. I think Edmunds won't be hard to replace, but we can't replace Poyer this draft without paying a very high price for ignoring bigger needs. A slot receiver would be nice, but not in the top 2 rounds. We can't afford it.

Orlando Buffalo · April 8, 2022

I would not be surprised if we trade up for a CB in the 12-15 range. We are very talented everywhere on the roster except CB until Tre comes back.

whorlnut · April 8, 2022

3 hours ago, Magox said:

Don’t get me wrong, I love the idea of getting a WR with the first pick but with the Diggs deal and the glaring hole at CB, I believe the odds of a CB with the 1st pick are rising, unless they get a quality FA CB. If that happens I could see the Bills drafting CB with either a 2nd-4th round picks and wouldn’t be surprised if they chose two.

If they get a value FA CB to compete for a spot then I think they go 1st round CB.

There are a lot of good WR’s that I believe will be able to contribute that could be had with 2nd/3rd round picks. I could see Beane holding off until then to get one of those guys.

Alec Pearce is a guy I think could be a real steal.

So you can only fill a need with a first round pick? Sorry. Not buying it. If there isn’t a corner worth a first round pick, do you still take one?

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I literally didn't say any of those things.

Josh is setup to succeed, they improved the OL, brought in a dangerous slot weapon in Crowder, extended Diggs, added OJ Howard. I mean you are delusional if you don't think the offense has been upgraded this year already, an offense that averaged 41.5 points in the playoffs and still got bounced.

And we upgraded our pass rush in Miller, but we are MISSING our TWO starting corners from last year. We have no starters on our roster ready for week 1. We have a BACKUP CB we HOPE can be relied upon to start even though he was absued by the Chiefs in the playoffs last year. We have an all pro recovering from a bad injury that may not have him ready to start the season, and even if he is, could take part of or even all of the season to rebound back to his previous form.

Again, you absolutely incorrect that CB isn't a bigger need than something on offense. We will absolutely draft some offense, and we could round 1. Beane will stay true to his BPA I expect, so if there is not a corner they covet at 25, he wont reach and he will take another position. But, to say CB is not the biggest need is beyond ridiculous.

I really can’t stand this argument. Crowder and Howard are on cheap one year deals. There is NOTHING there that should preclude them from taking a WR if there is one they like.

I don’t agree with you or anyone on corner in round 1. You can’t reach for need and I think Beane likes Jackson a lot. We can get a pretty good corner in the mid rounds.

whorlnut · April 8, 2022

20 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I would not be surprised if we trade up for a CB in the 12-15 range. We are very talented everywhere on the roster except CB until Tre comes back.

This is just…wow. So we would give up a ton of picks (maybe even next year’s first) to move up and get a backup plan to Tre being ready? This is laughable. I think the staff likes Jackson a lot, no matter how many of you feel or if you agree or not.

The idea that we are set on offense is equally laughable. We have a slow RB on the last year of his rookie deal, we have an old guard on a one year deal, and a bunch of “weapons” on one year deals as well. You don’t think we could use some cheap young labor that will be for a while in that side of the ball? I do. And hopefully Beane does as well.

Magox · April 8, 2022

30 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

So you can only fill a need with a first round pick? Sorry. Not buying it. If there isn’t a corner worth a first round pick, do you still take one?

I really can’t stand this argument. Crowder and Howard are on cheap one year deals. There is NOTHING there that should preclude them from taking a WR if there is one they like.

I don’t agree with you or anyone on corner in round 1. You can’t reach for need and I think Beane likes Jackson a lot. We can get a pretty good corner in the mid rounds.

That's not what I said, reread it.

Allen2Moulds · April 8, 2022

9 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

This is just…wow. So we would give up a ton of picks (maybe even next year’s first) to move up and get a backup plan to Tre being ready? This is laughable. I think the staff likes Jackson a lot, no matter how many of you feel or if you agree or not.

The idea that we are set on offense is equally laughable. We have a slow RB on the last year of his rookie deal, we have an old guard on a one year deal, and a bunch of “weapons” on one year deals as well. You don’t think we could use some cheap young labor that will be for a while in that side of the ball? I do. And hopefully Beane does as well.

We don't trade up for a back-up plan, we trade up to try and land the next superstar at CB. 4-5 years from now, Tre will be 32. Pefect time to stagger the contracts.

whorlnut · April 8, 2022

11 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

We don't trade up for a back-up plan, we trade up to try and land the next superstar at CB. 4-5 years from now, Tre will be 32. Pefect time to stagger the contracts.

Or it’s a perfect time to get cheaper on offense. We are paying Diggs and there are some other decisions coming up the next year or two. It works both ways.

This team’s identity is the passing game. Gotta keep weapons in the pipeline cause you don’t know who will leave.

Orlando Buffalo · April 8, 2022

32 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

This is just…wow. So we would give up a ton of picks (maybe even next year’s first) to move up and get a backup plan to Tre being ready? This is laughable. I think the staff likes Jackson a lot, no matter how many of you feel or if you agree or not.

The idea that we are set on offense is equally laughable. We have a slow RB on the last year of his rookie deal, we have an old guard on a one year deal, and a bunch of “weapons” on one year deals as well. You don’t think we could use some cheap young labor that will be for a while in that side of the ball? I do. And hopefully Beane does as well.

The highest priority has to be CB- to claim we have all three of our opening day starting CB on the roster at this moment shows how little you understand our defense. Also to move from 25 to 15 should not require our first next year but we only have a few open slots on our 53 man roster so using our other picks to move up makes sense.

Allen2Moulds · April 8, 2022

2 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Or it’s a perfect time to get cheaper on offense. We are paying Diggs and there are some other decisions coming up the next year or two. It works both ways.

This team’s identity is the passing game. Gotta keep weapons in the pipeline cause you don’t know who will leave.

I don't disagree there. But here's where my thought is.

WR1 Diggs

WR2 Gabe

Slot Crowder/McKenize

TE1 Knox

TE2 OJ

CB1: Tre (doubtful to be ready) also don't know how he's going to look. It may take until year 2 to be fully back.

CB2: Dane Jackson (who I like, but couldn't beat out Levi for the job last year)

Slot: Taron

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