Diggs Extended 4 more years breaking news per WGR 550

[Aussie Joe]

14 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Literally, you can look at Diggs then existing contract and say there was no need to act..............not  just "technically".

 

You can't keep everyone at their happiest as a GM.........sometimes players are going to want for things.

 

I think Beane did a pretty good job keeping Diggs at bay on an extension for a couple years.........but ultimately the objective should have been to get him to the offseason before his walk year and see where he stood going into his age 30 season.

 

 

 

 

 

it’s a moot point now… but would you have wanted to sign Diggs to a new deal under any circumstances?

 

Say they waited until after this year and he had a 2022 like 2020 … would you still want to then sign him to this deal?

 

Also.. I think it’s pretty obvious that it’s not just about Diggs.., Beane is also looking to keep Josh happy too… Josh loves his buddy.. 

[ArtVandalay]

On 4/7/2022 at 1:17 PM, Mark Vader said:

And your solution to this would have been to do what, exactly?

Play out the final two years of the deal and move on. 

 

Yes I know you hate to hear it and we all love Diggs now but the odds of him producing post 30 are dramatically against him. 

 

Last year only 3 WR age 30+ had 700 yards. None had 900, AJ Green with 848 was the leader. Just look at how Julio Jones evaporated the past couple years. 

 

Handing out contracts like this as a losing football team is easy.  But as a winning team with a Mets contract at QB to compete year in and year out you need to make cut throat decisions based on logic and likelihood not emotional attachment to players. With this reported contract and reported outs he's going to be on the books minimum through age 31, and most likely through age 32. That's 2-3 years past likely useful life. Maybe he stays healthy and produces age 30.

 

This contract is most likely paying for past performance, not future. 

 

Physically he's already peaked, age 25-27 is the typical physical peak.

 

This past year he had 24 less catches with 1 more game and had 23.8 less yards per game. His catch rate was down 13% from 75% to 62%. Then we drop mega money on him.

 

I'm not concerned about next year,  I'm concerned about 2 years from now and out. 

[nucci]

14 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Play out the final two years of the deal and move on. 

 

Yes I know you hate to hear it and we all love Diggs now but the odds of him producing post 30 are dramatically against him. 

 

Last year only 3 WR age 30+ had 700 yards. None had 900, AJ Green with 848 was the leader. Just look at how Julio Jones evaporated the past couple years. 

 

Handing out contracts like this as a losing football team is easy.  But as a winning team with a Mets contract at QB to compete year in and year out you need to make cut throat decisions based on logic and likelihood not emotional attachment to players. With this reported contract and reported outs he's going to be on the books minimum through age 31, and most likely through age 32. That's 2-3 years past likely useful life. Maybe he stays healthy and produces age 30.

 

This contract is most likely paying for past performance, not future. 

 

Physically he's already peaked, age 25-27 is the typical physical peak.

 

This past year he had 24 less catches with 1 more game and had 23.8 less yards per game. His catch rate was down 13% from 75% to 62%. Then we drop mega money on him.

 

I'm not concerned about next year,  I'm concerned about 2 years from now and out. 

Julio has been injured for years. We should let this go. He's signed, the Bills are bringing back most of last years team and we're Superbowl contenders again. Hard to find things to complain about. 

[RunTheBall]

Look at every move Beane makes through the lense of swinging for the fences for the next 2 years. He’s going to make decisions now that have more to do with winning the SB in the next 2 years than making a run 4 years from now. We are going to see a move with Poyer that probably won’t make the most long term sense but will throw him a bone for the next year or two in order to keep the band together.

 

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

1 hour ago, ArtVandalay said:

Play out the final two years of the deal and move on. 

 

Yes I know you hate to hear it and we all love Diggs now but the odds of him producing post 30 are dramatically against him. 

 

Last year only 3 WR age 30+ had 700 yards. None had 900, AJ Green with 848 was the leader. Just look at how Julio Jones evaporated the past couple years. 

 

Handing out contracts like this as a losing football team is easy.  But as a winning team with a Mets contract at QB to compete year in and year out you need to make cut throat decisions based on logic and likelihood not emotional attachment to players. With this reported contract and reported outs he's going to be on the books minimum through age 31, and most likely through age 32. That's 2-3 years past likely useful life. Maybe he stays healthy and produces age 30.

 

This contract is most likely paying for past performance, not future. 

 

Physically he's already peaked, age 25-27 is the typical physical peak.

 

This past year he had 24 less catches with 1 more game and had 23.8 less yards per game. His catch rate was down 13% from 75% to 62%. Then we drop mega money on him.

 

I'm not concerned about next year,  I'm concerned about 2 years from now and out. 

Comparing Julio Jones to Diggs is comparing apples to oranges. If you want to find a comp for Diggs Go look at Marvin Harrison’s production after 30. Diggs and Harrison are very similar in body styles and play. Diggs takes great care of himself, loves the game, and loves his team. I think Diggs will be playing at the same level for the next 4 years. Freak injuries occur, but those happen to 22 year olds too. 

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Comparing Julio Jones to Diggs is comparing apples to oranges. If you want to find a comp for Diggs Go look at Marvin Harrison’s production after 30. Diggs and Harrison are very similar in body styles and play. Diggs takes great care of himself, loves the game, and loves his team. I think Diggs will be playing at the same level for the next 4 years. Freak injuries occur, but those happen to 22 year olds too. 

I agree with this.   And beyond body type and style of play, which is very much like Harrison's, I've been comparing the Allen-Diggs duo to Manning-Harrison.   Great thrower with a great receiver, and in both cases, both guys are committed to getting better and better.   I remember once, late in the Manning-Harrison years, in it's pregame show a network showed video of Manning and Harrison working on the timing of some quick route - a slant or an out.  These were two guys whose Hall of Fame tickets had already been punched, and they were trying to get a little bit better at something they had done thousands of times before.   I think we've already seen that Allen and Diggs are like that.   Diggs said something about it in his press conference after signing.   He said he and Josh still have things to work on, and you can tell that he understands they'll ALWAYS have things to work on.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

I love that the length of this thread is giving anything Ertz a run for the money! 🤗

[BADOLBILZ]

15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

I recall you explaining at the time of the trade that Diggs would be clamoring for a new contract after 2020... I think you may have doubled down after 2021, but I could be mistaken.

 

What, other than your contention, would be the evidence that Beane had any job to do "keeping Diggs at bay" the past two seasons?

 

 

 

What is the evidence that this is the top of the WR market? 

What other positional contracts have peaked and gone down?  Are there any examples of that?

 

 

When I look at the structure of the contract, I think it's designed to end with 2 years left.

 

 

1)  So let's get this straight........in your mind Beane extending Stefon Diggs contract with 2 years still remaining on the original deal is in some way proof that I was wrong about Diggs camp hoping to get his deal re-done prior to now?   

 

IMO that is a completely pointless......fact-free attempt to look factual argument..........simply made by you for the sake of arguing. 

 

FACT:  his deal being extended with multiple years remaining on it is proof that Diggs clamored for a new contract prior to the end of his prior one.   

 

I think it's naive to believe the thought just crossed his mind last week..........but you think what you want. 

 

2) I think this is the top of the market for the next few years because there has been an over-reaction by teams to the value of a top WR.  

 

It's certainly not just the quality of the receivers available.  

 

 I've heard mulitiple NFL observers say that the games on divisional weekend between Buffalo/KC and LAR/Bucs..........where 4 strong defense's looked helpless against elite passing games..........especially at the ends of those games...........frightened a lot of teams into thinking they simply can't compete with these elite QB'd teams unless they are absolutely dynamic thru the air.

 

As a result teams that are desperate for a big season......to save jobs or prop up young QB's or get out from under the domination of a division rival.......are paying thru the nose for UFA WR's.........despite what I think is actually an increasingly supply heavy situation at WR around the league.  

 

And that supply will only deepen in a few weeks when another top-10 all-time kinda' WR deep group enters the league.........the 3rd straight such draft.

 

As the supply gets closer to the demand...........contracts will level off.........it's the law of the market.

 

3) Example:.......5 years ago CB1's were getting bigger deals than WR1's.........CB1 market has leveled off.    

 

4) The structure of the contract may well leave them with only 1 or 2 years of bad dead money.   But as I stated in point 2...........supply is increasing at the WR position and Diggs original deal was going to end with him in his 30's..........it would have been safer to see what he looks like AFTER this coming season(going into age 30 year) and then work from a market that I expect will be leveled off.

 

I mean most of his yards-per metrics have declined substantially from not just last year but 2019 as well.    

 

And did he or did he not just put up a 3 catch 6 yard game in the playoffs in Kansas City?  Why was NOW the better time to make him the second highest guaranteed dollar WR in the league with 2 years left on a deal?  

 

  

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

1)  So let's get this straight........in your mind Beane extending Stefon Diggs contract with 2 years still remaining on the original deal is in some way proof that I was wrong about Diggs camp hoping to get his deal re-done prior to now?   

 

Let me help you straighten that.  I asked "I recall you explaining at the time of the trade that Diggs would be clamoring for a new contract after 2020... I think you may have doubled down after 2021, but I could be mistaken.

 

What, other than your contention, would be the evidence that Beane had any job to do "keeping Diggs at bay" the past two seasons?"

 

You stated that "I think Beane did a pretty good job keeping Diggs at bay on an extension for a couple years."

 

I'm simply asking, what, besides your prior stated viewpoint, is the evidence that Diggs needed to be "kept at bay"?

 

If the answer is "nothing, it's your personal opinion", that's fine, I'm just asking if it's anything besides your personal opinion.

 

 

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

IMO that is a completely pointless......fact-free attempt to look factual argument..........simply made by you for the sake of arguing. 

 

I'm asking you to back up your statement, or to clarify that it's simply your opinion.

[ColoradoBills]

It seems to me that the Bills could get out of the contract after the 2025 season for $10M of dead money (10% of the contract value).

Diggs starts the 2025 season at 31 and turns 32 late in the season.

There isn't a March 2026 added guarantee of any kind.

 

I don't see any issues at all.

[BADOLBILZ]

44 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Let me help you straighten that.  I asked "I recall you explaining at the time of the trade that Diggs would be clamoring for a new contract after 2020... I think you may have doubled down after 2021, but I could be mistaken.

 

What, other than your contention, would be the evidence that Beane had any job to do "keeping Diggs at bay" the past two seasons?"

 

You stated that "I think Beane did a pretty good job keeping Diggs at bay on an extension for a couple years."

 

I'm simply asking, what, besides your prior stated viewpoint, is the evidence that Diggs needed to be "kept at bay"?

 

If the answer is "nothing, it's your personal opinion", that's fine, I'm just asking if it's anything besides your personal opinion.

 

 

 

I'm asking you to back up your statement, or to clarify that it's simply your opinion.

 

Evidence that Diggs wanted his deal re-done prior to the end of his Vikings deal?  

 

The fact that it got re-done prior to the end of his Vikings deal is sufficient proof for this civil proceeding, your honor.

 

Take the L.

 

[3rdand12]

16 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

It seems to me that the Bills could get out of the contract after the 2025 season for $10M of dead money (10% of the contract value).

Diggs starts the 2025 season at 31 and turns 32 late in the season.

There isn't a March 2026 added guarantee of any kind.

 

I don't see any issues at all.

Yes. it was what needed to be done. For holistic reasonings !
To consider already that Diggs is going to fall off a ledge in "overall" skill set is overly predictive. 30 is not definitive these days for WR.
 I felt it was the investment due, and at the right time.
Go Bills

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Evidence that Diggs wanted his deal re-done prior to the end of his Vikings deal?  

 

The fact that it got re-done prior to the end of his Vikings deal is sufficient proof for this civil proceeding, your honor.

 

Take the L.

 

 

There was a specific contention and a specific question: 

I asked "I recall you explaining at the time of the trade that Diggs would be clamoring for a new contract after 2020... I think you may have doubled down after 2021, but I could be mistaken.

 

What, other than your contention, would be the evidence that Beane had any job to do "keeping Diggs at bay" the past two seasons?"

 

That is a slightly different question than "before the end of his Vikings deal", which, as you point out, had 2 more years to run - and had 4 more years when he was traded to Buffalo.

 

You said at the time that Diggs would insist on a new deal after 2020.  He didn't.  Now you're saying "Beane did a good job 'keeping Diggs at bay the past two seasons'.

 

One last time: what, other than you saying so in the past, and doubling down now, is the evidence that Diggs was lobbying for a new deal and had to be "held at bay" prior to this offseason?

 

This doesn't seem to be a hard question to answer.  Either you have some evidence, something you read or heard - or you don't, and it's your opinion, unsupported by any evidence.  Once you answer the question, we can move on.

 

Telling people to "take the L" is cute verbiage, but when you're very transparently dodging or shifting the question that was asked, it gets old.  Do you think no one notices and it somehow gives you credit for "dunking" on  people who are trying to have a discussion with you? 

[NewEra]

We should have just let the contract play out

9 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

Play out the final two years of the deal and move on. 

 

Yes I know you hate to hear it and we all love Diggs now but the odds of him producing post 30 are dramatically against him. 

 

Last year only 3 WR age 30+ had 700 yards. None had 900, AJ Green with 848 was the leader. Just look at how Julio Jones evaporated the past couple years. 

 

Handing out contracts like this as a losing football team is easy.  But as a winning team with a Mets contract at QB to compete year in and year out you need to make cut throat decisions based on logic and likelihood not emotional attachment to players. With this reported contract and reported outs he's going to be on the books minimum through age 31, and most likely through age 32. That's 2-3 years past likely useful life. Maybe he stays healthy and produces age 30.

 

This contract is most likely paying for past performance, not future. 

 

Physically he's already peaked, age 25-27 is the typical physical peak.

 

This past year he had 24 less catches with 1 more game and had 23.8 less yards per game. His catch rate was down 13% from 75% to 62%. Then we drop mega money on him.

 

I'm not concerned about next year,  I'm concerned about 2 years from now and out. 

At the expense of possibly winning a super bowl.  You’re acting as if Diggs would’ve just said “ok” to that….. bwhahahahaha.  Wake up.  

[Aussie Joe]

Diggs had them over a barrel... they couldnt afford to be getting him disgruntled this year of all years when they are "all in"... I dont see much incentive for him to be a good soldier and suck it up for the team whilst playing for $10 million less this year...

 

On the positive... Im not expecting him to fall off a cliff any time soon... maybe the KC playoff game might have shown that you have to respect Gabe Davis as well and not just blanket Diggs.. Hopefully they get another skill player in the draft as well to further thin out opposing  D's  and perhaps we will see Diggs with a bit more space moving forward....

 

That 2025 year though ...  Essentially he is going to be a 26 Mil cap hit that year with only a $7m savings to cut him...  so he is likely playing through that season...

 

Hope he is still playing at a high level come then or on the other side of they equation they have at least one championship banner hanging up in the stadium...

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by Aussie Joe

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

It seems to me that the Bills could get out of the contract after the 2025 season for $10M of dead money (10% of the contract value).

Diggs starts the 2025 season at 31 and turns 32 late in the season.

There isn't a March 2026 added guarantee of any kind.

 

I don't see any issues at all.

 

That's how I read it - that it's a 4 year contract with some amortized bonus carried into the 5th and 6th years, and the team option to keep Diggs here if we feel he's still gonna be productive.

[ArtVandalay]

On 4/10/2022 at 9:36 AM, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Comparing Julio Jones to Diggs is comparing apples to oranges. If you want to find a comp for Diggs Go look at Marvin Harrison’s production after 30. Diggs and Harrison are very similar in body styles and play. Diggs takes great care of himself, loves the game, and loves his team. I think Diggs will be playing at the same level for the next 4 years. Freak injuries occur, but those happen to 22 year olds too. 

I'm not comparing Diggs to Julio, he is just the most notable recent example. 

 

But if you need to go back 15 years to find a guy that produces post-30 at WR that's not helping your case... also Harrison was so much better than Diggs and so much more insanely productive, Diggs has never sniffed him. 

 

Like I said,  only 3 WR in the NFL age 30+ had 700 yards and the top was 848 by AJ Green.  Sorry, but track record of 30+ guys is poor. We had him locked up through 30 already. 

[atlbillsfan1975]

7 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

I'm not comparing Diggs to Julio, he is just the most notable recent example. 

 

But if you need to go back 15 years to find a guy that produces post-30 at WR that's not helping your case... also Harrison was so much better than Diggs and so much more insanely productive, Diggs has never sniffed him. 

 

Like I said,  only 3 WR in the NFL age 30+ had 700 yards and the top was 848 by AJ Green.  Sorry, but track record of 30+ guys is poor. We had him locked up through 30 already. 

It’s really no point discussing if you believe everything was fine and Diggs was happy and going to play the next two years at his previous contracts rate. 
I stick by my comparison and believe it does help my case. 
You have your opinion I have mine. I will choose to believe the signing will workout based on facts I have, you have your own facts influencing your beliefs. All good. 
 

[ArtVandalay]

14 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

It’s really no point discussing if you believe everything was fine and Diggs was happy and going to play the next two years at his previous contracts rate. 
I stick by my comparison and believe it does help my case. 
You have your opinion I have mine. I will choose to believe the signing will workout based on facts I have, you have your own facts influencing your beliefs. All good. 
 

Well I didn't say of that... I mean you play out the final two years, if he refuses to play he doesn't have much choice with the new CBA rules,  and if you need to you trade him,  like KC just did with Hill.

 

This won't be a problem until 2 years down the road,  next year will be fine is 2, 3, 4 years later this hurts most likely. 

 

The fact is the team has options other than back up the truck and dump money in his lap. 

[NewEra]

On 4/10/2022 at 5:26 AM, ArtVandalay said:

Play out the final two years of the deal and move on. 

 

Yes I know you hate to hear it and we all love Diggs now but the odds of him producing post 30 are dramatically against him. 

 

Last year only 3 WR age 30+ had 700 yards. None had 900, AJ Green with 848 was the leader. Just look at how Julio Jones evaporated the past couple years. 

 

Handing out contracts like this as a losing football team is easy.  But as a winning team with a Mets contract at QB to compete year in and year out you need to make cut throat decisions based on logic and likelihood not emotional attachment to players. With this reported contract and reported outs he's going to be on the books minimum through age 31, and most likely through age 32. That's 2-3 years past likely useful life. Maybe he stays healthy and produces age 30.

 

This contract is most likely paying for past performance, not future. 

 

Physically he's already peaked, age 25-27 is the typical physical peak.

 

This past year he had 24 less catches with 1 more game and had 23.8 less yards per game. His catch rate was down 13% from 75% to 62%. Then we drop mega money on him.

 

I'm not concerned about next year,  I'm concerned about 2 years from now and out. 

You’re really concerned about Stefon Diggs @ in 2023?  🤦🏻‍♂️