Diggs Extended 4 more years breaking news per WGR 550

[atlbillsfan1975]

Diggs should be productive for at least the next five seasons. Marvin Harrison is a good comparison for Diggs as far as body and style of play. Harrison was very productive through age 34. 

[Einstein's Dog]

10 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

As I said earlier, I think he's waiting.  He knows the corners he likes in the draft, he knows where they are on his board, and he will deal to go after one he likes.  A wide out would be nice, but a first round corner who can start from day one really bolsters the lineup.  By November or December McDermott would have that guy on one side, with experience, and White on the other, with Miller and Oliver and Rousseau chasing the quarterback.  That's some serious stuff. 

Seems a little shiny objecty to me.  The exciting unknown "first round corner" really bolsters the lineup as apposed to say the steady experience of Nelson/Rhodes/Callahan, not to even bring in the possibility of Fuller or Gilmore (who I personally don't like).  For next season if you ranked the CBs you would like starting for the Bills, I would put the rookies behind these vets.

 

Anyway the draft is really supposed to be about the future.  It's now a potential cost control to balance out the big prices of the core (QB,WR,LT,CB,DE).   A WR is more than just nice for the future.  It gives Josh/Dorsey 4-5 years of continuity to pair up with Diggs.  It gives Beane negotiating leverage for Davis and Knox, and insurance if demands get too rich.  It also helps cost contain the WR group.  I'd like to see a WR and RB and see if they can develop into integral parts of the future offense.

[BillsShredder83]

15 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Diggs should be productive for at least the next five seasons. Marvin Harrison is a good comparison for Diggs as far as body and style of play. Harrison was very productive through age 34. 

Diggs has always done a good job of protecting his body when it makes sense, and im all about that!

 

Diggs wins with footwork, and tight precise routes. Which won't fade like regular physical attributes do.

 

he's not really a burner, so he'll age with the game much better than a tyreek hill, or a power runner like d.k.

[SCBills]

21 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Diggs should be productive for at least the next five seasons. Marvin Harrison is a good comparison for Diggs as far as body and style of play. Harrison was very productive through age 34. 

 

Diggs probably has 3 more elite seasons in him, potentially 4.  However, even if his play drops off after that, his style doesn't lend itself to him falling off a cliff... instead, he likely becomes our #2 WR as someone else emerges down the line or is acquired. 

[BillsShredder83]

12 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Seems a little shiny objecty to me.  The exciting unknown "first round corner" really bolsters the lineup as apposed to say the steady experience of Nelson/Rhodes/Callahan, not to even bring in the possibility of Fuller or Gilmore (who I personally don't like).  For next season if you ranked the CBs you would like starting for the Bills, I would put the rookies behind these vets.

 

Anyway the draft is really supposed to be about the future.  It's now a potential cost control to balance out the big prices of the core (QB,WR,LT,CB,DE).   A WR is more than just nice for the future.  It gives Josh/Dorsey 4-5 years of continuity to pair up with Diggs.  It gives Beane negotiating leverage for Davis and Knox, and insurance if demands get too rich.  It also helps cost contain the WR group.  I'd like to see a WR and RB and see if they can develop into integral parts of the future offense.

It's so weird to see my Bills having adult conversations like this. Draft was always "I hope we get someone awesome". No consideration to cost control, or leveraging other players, or continuity.

If they developed nicely, they were gone (R Woods comes to mind), and if they were mediocre they stuck around. 

Aside from winning being amazing, it's interesting to see what first world problems look like. Much more interesting

[Greg S]

15 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Diggs probably has 3 more elite seasons in him, potentially 4.  However, even if his play drops off after that, his style doesn't lend itself to him falling off a cliff... instead, he likely becomes our #2 WR as someone else emerges down the line or is acquired. 

 

If it leads to a Super Bowl championship then it won't matter if these contracts Diggs, Miller etc etc are horrible on the back end. I will deal with a couple of bad seasons for a Super Bowl win.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Greg S

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

If it leads to a Super Bowl championship then it won't matter if these contracts Diggs, Miller etc etc are horrible on the back end. I will deal with a couple of bad seasons for a Super Bowl win.

 

I'm not even worried about them being "bad seasons".

 

Von Miller is here for 3 years.  Not worried at all about that.  If it works, awesome, if not, oh well... not like we're used to elite DE play anyway.  Although I tend to believe Von will still be great for at least 2 of these 3 years... and then hopefully by year 3, if he drops off, someone else is ready to be the lead dog on the DL anyway.  I also feel our heavy rotation will help keep him fresh for these 3 years.

 

The Diggs contract, I'm not worried about at all.  Worst case scenario, his play drops off after 3 years and we have a solid #2 WR under contract... paid well, sure, but with the cap increases and WR contract trajectory, whatever...

 

As long as Josh Allen is here, we're a contender.. provided Beane continues to be aggressive, but smart. Beane shows every intention of being that. 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by SCBills

[Shaw66]

44 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Seems a little shiny objecty to me.  The exciting unknown "first round corner" really bolsters the lineup as apposed to say the steady experience of Nelson/Rhodes/Callahan, not to even bring in the possibility of Fuller or Gilmore (who I personally don't like).  For next season if you ranked the CBs you would like starting for the Bills, I would put the rookies behind these vets.

 

Anyway the draft is really supposed to be about the future.  It's now a potential cost control to balance out the big prices of the core (QB,WR,LT,CB,DE).   A WR is more than just nice for the future.  It gives Josh/Dorsey 4-5 years of continuity to pair up with Diggs.  It gives Beane negotiating leverage for Davis and Knox, and insurance if demands get too rich.  It also helps cost contain the WR group.  I'd like to see a WR and RB and see if they can develop into integral parts of the future offense.

You know, Fido, this stuff some of you guys understand and write is just good.  Like this.  I've thought about but never really focused on how the CBA affects team building, and this distinction you raise is a good way to look at it:  The draft is supposed to be about building for the future, but the CBA and cap make it about cost control, too.  Beane's job is balancing talent, cost, the current roster, and the future roster all the time, but the draft is now a critical piece on the cost control side.  

 

I've quoted Whaley before.   He said once that the cap allows you to have six high-paid players, and in his view it was three on offense (QB, LT, and someone else) and three on defense (edge, corner, and someone else).  Beane's sort of done that Allen, Dawkins, and Diggs, Miller, White, and maybe Poyer/Hyde, with Edmunds and Oliver waiting in the wings.  

 

What you say about getting a good rookie wideout is true - talent to pair with Diggs, stability over the next four or five years, plus cost control at the position.  When it's time to make a decision about that guy's second contract, it will be an appropriate time to decide whether to move on from Diggs.  However, it's equally true about a first-round corner.  A stud corner to pair with White gives the defense stability over the next several years, and when his rookie deal is up, it will be time to decide what to do with White.  (I've wondered whether White move to safety at some point.)

 

So, I'm not sure that any of that tips the scales either way, although the chances of getting a WR who plays immediately are better than getting a rookie corner you can count on.  Beane's job is to make the best decision he can, based on need and talent he sees that may be available, and once that decision is made, he has to move on to the next decision.  For example, he certainly had thoughts and plans about where he was going this spring, but those thoughts and plans took a turn when it became apparent that he could add Miller.  In particular, Miller's availability may have changed his plans about a veteran corner.  The Chiefs had plans, too, and those plans changed when they came to realize that spending on Hill didn't make sense.  

 

On top of all of that, Beane needs to leave himself enough wiggle room so that he can make in-season moves.  He never wants to be in the position in October when McDermott comes to him and a says. "I need a _____," and Beane has to say, "sorry, I've spent every nickel and I can't help you anymore.  You'll have to go the rest of the way with what you have."

 

Point is, it's a complex and fascinating dynamic problem.  This forum, including me, is lucky to have some guys here (including you) who are good at thinking along with Beane as the problem plays out.   

[DrDawkinstein]

12 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I haven't seen a lot of Diggs being interviewed.  I just watched the video of his press conference.   A lot of the quotes from the press conference are posted in the preceding pages.  He is one together guy.   Talk about comfortable in his own skin.  Man.  

 

Listen to him talk about the feeling on this team.  He just keeps saying "family."  And he's not saying it because that's the mantra - he feels it.  He loves being loved by his coaches and his teammates.  

 

He talked about how they (the front office) keep bringing in the right guys.  He said they did it with him, they did it with Miller.  He essentially said everyone fits. 

 

He said he doesn't want to call plays, but players see things that the coaches don't always see, and on this team the coaches listen.  He said he might give the coaches five routes his likes for a game, and they'll give him three of them.  He likes that. 

 

He's really mature.  Intense, but at ease.  

 

Quite a guy.  

 

Great post. It inspired me to go back and watch the entire presser, and man, you aint wrong. Such a cool, calm, collected, mature dude.

 

Makes me think the entire incorrect "diva" marrative that came from Minnesota was really nothing more than Minnesota not having anyone else who matched his competitive juices, and his demanding excellence from others looked like a diva.

 

Totally worth the 15 minutes to watch.

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

28 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Great post. It inspired me to go back and watch the entire presser, and man, you aint wrong. Such a cool, calm, collected, mature dude.

 

Makes me think the entire incorrect "diva" marrative that came from Minnesota was really nothing more than Minnesota not having anyone else who matched his competitive juices, and his demanding excellence from others looked like a diva.

 

Totally worth the 15 minutes to watch.

 

 

 

Yes, I too kept wondering what was it about Diggs that Minnesota missed.  It would have gone down as one of the dumbest trades ever if the Vikings hadn't discovered gold in Justin Jefferson.  

[muppy]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

You know, Fido, this stuff some of you guys understand and write is just good.  Like this.  I've thought about but never really focused on how the CBA affects team building, and this distinction you raise is a good way to look at it:  The draft is supposed to be about building for the future, but the CBA and cap make it about cost control, too.  Beane's job is balancing talent, cost, the current roster, and the future roster all the time, but the draft is now a critical piece on the cost control side.  

 

I've quoted Whaley before.   He said once that the cap allows you to have six high-paid players, and in his view it was three on offense (QB, LT, and someone else) and three on defense (edge, corner, and someone else).  Beane's sort of done that Allen, Dawkins, and Diggs, Miller, White, and maybe Poyer/Hyde, with Edmunds and Oliver waiting in the wings.  

 

What you say about getting a good rookie wideout is true - talent to pair with Diggs, stability over the next four or five years, plus cost control at the position.  When it's time to make a decision about that guy's second contract, it will be an appropriate time to decide whether to move on from Diggs.  However, it's equally true about a first-round corner.  A stud corner to pair with White gives the defense stability over the next several years, and when his rookie deal is up, it will be time to decide what to do with White.  (I've wondered whether White move to safety at some point.)

 

So, I'm not sure that any of that tips the scales either way, although the chances of getting a WR who plays immediately are better than getting a rookie corner you can count on.  Beane's job is to make the best decision he can, based on need and talent he sees that may be available, and once that decision is made, he has to move on to the next decision.  For example, he certainly had thoughts and plans about where he was going this spring, but those thoughts and plans took a turn when it became apparent that he could add Miller.  In particular, Miller's availability may have changed his plans about a veteran corner.  The Chiefs had plans, too, and those plans changed when they came to realize that spending on Hill didn't make sense.  

 

On top of all of that, Beane needs to leave himself enough wiggle room so that he can make in-season moves.  He never wants to be in the position in October when McDermott comes to him and a says. "I need a _____," and Beane has to say, "sorry, I've spent every nickel and I can't help you anymore.  You'll have to go the rest of the way with what you have."

 

Point is, it's a complex and fascinating dynamic problem.  This forum, including me, is lucky to have some guys here (including you) who are good at thinking along with Beane as the problem plays out.   

LOL shaw Fido? I then expected a hit piece but it was quite the opposite Great conversation between you 2 and thread overall  :-)-m

Edited April 8, 2022 by muppy

[MJS]

52 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Great post. It inspired me to go back and watch the entire presser, and man, you aint wrong. Such a cool, calm, collected, mature dude.

 

Makes me think the entire incorrect "diva" marrative that came from Minnesota was really nothing more than Minnesota not having anyone else who matched his competitive juices, and his demanding excellence from others looked like a diva.

 

Totally worth the 15 minutes to watch.

 

 

 

Well, I think he was also frustrated by the offensive structure and direction the team was going. By now, their HC has been fired and they are going in a new direction. Maybe they should have listened to Diggs in the first place.

 

He probably knew what they needed to do to be more successful, but he was shouting into a vacuum. Here, he is heard by the coaches and he can tell that the offensive approach is going to bring success.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That top tweet was....Disturbing

 

10 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Why? I found it comforting. In a world where marriages are a 50/50 proposition, it's nice to imagine these two together for the long haul. 

oddly enough I agree with both comments 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

40 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, I too kept wondering what was it about Diggs that Minnesota missed.  It would have gone down as one of the dumbest trades ever if the Vikings hadn't discovered gold in Justin Jefferson.  

 

I think really great trades are a win-win for both parties. 

 

Buffalo needed a WR with proven NFL route-running chops and competitive juice to help our young QB take a step and to elevate the skill and competition level of the WR room.  Diggs delivered on all of the above

 

Minnesota had a mature QB who wanted routes run "his way or the highway" and needed a talented WR on a rookie deal for cap relief.  Jefferson delivered on all of the above.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

Agreed. We are really lucky to have him and kudos to Beane for the trade that brought him in.

 

I didn't notice your opinion on his extension though, esp. now since the contract details are out and he has $21.5M signing bonus. What is interesting is that Sportrac already shows his 2023 option bonus prorated five years*. As a result, Diggs has dead cap of $18M in 2025, which essentially ties him to Buffalo for at least 4 seasons (and even after that he has $10M dead cap). I do think/hope that it is a good deal and I love Diggs but this requires him to produce at high level for 4 years at least. What do you think?

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/stefon-diggs-16872/

 

*I have no idea what is option bonus, but I thought that it worked like base salary and thus right now it would be a lump sum counted towards 2023 cap hit, and we will have an option to convert it and prorate it before 2023 season. To my surprise Sportrac shows it already prorated. However, it doesn't matter much I guess since we would have done it anyway. God I hate using conditionals in English

 

So in regard to option bonus, it's traditionally been truly a team "option" - the team has the option to exercise it or not, and if they exercise it, to pro-rate it or not. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-salary-cap-terms-tricks-to-know-ahead-of-nfl-free-agency-2021

 

Beane and Overdorf seem to use it as a way to divide up a signing bonus and stagger its impact, since of recent the option bonuses they offer have been fully guaranteed at signing (Tre White, Dion Dawkins, Josh Allen).  The near-term cap benefit to the team is obvious; the player also benefits, as it allows them to spread out the tax impact of their bonuses a bit (pretty sure bonuses get paid in full and taxed in full when they're exercised)

 

I think the contract is intended to run 4 years and Diggs knows this.  He said in his presser something about "they say your best years are 28, 29, 30, 31, I'm 28 now so I'll get back to you when I'm 31".

[NewEra]

15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's not in question, the question is whether the "skinny boy club" (eg WR) would object

IOW can Josh Allen call Diggs "fatty"?

 

I'm thinking "No"

Neither myself nor my buddy would be classified as “fat”.  We’re just fatter than we were when we met each other

[K-9]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Great post. It inspired me to go back and watch the entire presser, and man, you aint wrong. Such a cool, calm, collected, mature dude.

 

Makes me think the entire incorrect "diva" marrative that came from Minnesota was really nothing more than Minnesota not having anyone else who matched his competitive juices, and his demanding excellence from others looked like a diva.

 

Totally worth the 15 minutes to watch.

 

 

 

He’s genuine in every sense of the word and his mantra about family and how important it is to him isn’t just talk. I lived in the Gaithersburg, MD area when he was tearing it up in high school and he had his pick of several big time programs but decided to stay close to home after his dad passed away to be near his mom and younger brothers. That meant less talented QBs throwing to him, being drafted far lower than he otherwise would have been, and costing him some money as a result. And he knew all that going into the recruiting process but still made family his priority. That’s all I need to know about his level of commitment to things he values. 

[Shaw66]

6 minutes ago, K-9 said:

He’s genuine in every sense of the word and his mantra about family and how important it is to him isn’t just talk. I lived in the Gaithersburg, MD area when he was tearing it up in high school and he had his pick of several big time programs but decided to stay close to home after his dad passed away to be near his mom and younger brothers. That meant less talented QBs throwing to him, being drafted far lower than he otherwise would have been, and costing him some money as a result. And he knew all that going into the recruiting process but still made family his priority. That’s all I need to know about his level of commitment to things he values. 

Nice story.  Thanks.

 

He makes me proud to be a Terp.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]