Joe B. Von Miller article in the Athletic

[unbillievable]

1 minute ago, 14774 said:

The premise of WAS vs BUF seems to be completely lost on some people. LMAO 

I wrongly assumed that people remembered that Bruce played for the Redskins.

16 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Joe raises some very important questions and then just concludes that the Bills will be able to solve them.   I'm not so sure. 

 

One is that Miller appears to be much better on the left side of the defense, and the Bills don't have anyone proven to play the right.  Rousseau only plays the left, Epenesa hasn't shown much, nor has Basham.  Lawson plays the left, too.  I don't see a solution to that.  Maybe Miller will play the right more this season, but Joe B points out that the Broncos figured out that he's better on the left, and the Rams seemed to figure it out, too. 

 

More of a problem, I think, is that Miller lines up wide, without a hand on the ground.  The Bills rarely put their DEs wide.  Joe says they don't because they're okay with forcing the running back to the outside, because the linebackers and DBs are good at shutting down the run out there.  Lining up wide lets Miller pick his route to the passer, but it also creates a gap to his inside for the running back, a gap that Edmunds has never shown he can control very well.  

 

McDermott and Frazier are smart, and I suspect they're already working on adjustments.   I can't imagine that the Bills spent the money on Miller to use him in a style that limits his effectiveness.  The whole point of getting him was to have a finisher, and if he's going to be a finisher the Bills have to put him in the best position to do what he does.   That means a right defensive end is going to have step up (AJ, Boogie, Shaq, or Rousseau), and the Bills' back seven will have to learn to shut down the off-tackle runs that Miller's style may give up. 

 

Basham, Epenesa, and Lawson have highlight plays from the RDE. So does Von Miller.

I think Groot is the only one that hasn't  been moved.

 

I may be the only one left, but I think Epenesa will become elite this year.  A 12+ sack season.

[Long Suffering Fan]

1 hour ago, WhoTom said:

 

So to clarify your first comment, you're saying that we got the Washington version of Bruce, not the Buffalo version.

 

1 hour ago, billybrew1 said:

I don’t care what anybody says. He lost his world class explosion and that means he’s human now. If we can’t seriously help him with pressure in the middle, pressure from the other side, the right blitz calls, he’s going to have a hard time being an impact player.

 

Right, which was my view before I read the article.  We signed a great player who was no longer in his prime and is probably only really good at this point.

 

My point in posting was that the article has led me to start to believe that Miller is still great and has not lost it...at least not yet.  That was what was brought out by the analysis of his plays last year.  His sacks are not as dependent on his burst alone as I might have thought.  Not having the time, inclination, or skill to analyze all of Miller's snaps last season, I guess that means I am taking Joe B at his word.  I mean it is only one analysis and someone else might come to different conclusions, but I think it is a valid data point.

[LABILLBACKER]

If Von can do what Reggie White did to end his career after age 32, I'd be ecstatic!

Edited April 5, 2022 by LABILLBACKER

[WhoTom]

34 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

I wrongly assumed that people remembered that Bruce played for the Redskins.

 

We didn't forget; the way you phrased it the first time ("We got Bruce Smith from Washington, not Buffalo.") was confusing.

 

 

[FilthyBeast]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

Smith had 29 sacks and 8 forced fumbles over four years in Washington. If that’s what we’re getting, I’m fine with it. Especially if Miller turns it up a notch in the playoffs like he did for LA.

 

Spot on, and anybody that thinks we are getting Von Miller from 5 years ago and he's going to explode for 15+ sacks is probably setting themselves up for a major disappointment. Even if he can just hit 10 sacks this year it's a massive upgrade from what we had in guys like Hughes and Addison especially if he's making plays when they matter in crucial games and the playoffs.

 

This is why for all the talk about the 'big contract' in reality it's just a 2 year deal and highly likely he's back after that which is why we need to maximize the next few years and hope other guys benefit and develop given the attention he's still going to command.

[RunTheBall]

1 hour ago, WhoTom said:

 

We didn't forget; the way you phrased it the first time ("We got Bruce Smith from Washington, not Buffalo.") was confusing.

 

 

Not really. It was pretty clear he meant we are getting the Redskins version of Bruce.

 

The Von signing was perfect in so many ways. 1) He’s still a force, he can finish 2) We’ve got young guys who need to develop and Von will be instrumental in teaching them 3) His snaps will definitely be limited in the regular season and then unleashed in the playoffs. This is a no brainer and will allow the young guys to develop and Von to extend is career. If we’ve got an important game or want to continue to beat down the Pats*, his snap count will skyrocket in that particular game.

 

I’d love to see Jerry back on a minimum contract to man that RDE spot. Not sure that’s gonna happen because there are only so many snaps to go around and we’ve got 2-3 young DEs who need to start playing more.

 

[unbillievable]

Hall of famers: Sacks age 32 and above.

 

Bruce Smith    10.5___13.5___14___10___7___10___5

Reggie White  13___8___12___8.5___11___16___5.5

Kevin Greene  14___9___14.5___10.5___15___12 

Jason Taylor   13.5___11___3.5___7___5___7 

Jared Allen      5.5      

John Abraham  13___9.5___10___11.5   

DeMarcus Ware  10      

Julius Peppers 11.5___ 7___7    

Dwight Freeney 5___0___3.5    

Robert Mathis  19.5      

Kevin Carter   6___5.5___3___4   

Charles Haley 0___0___3    

Andre Tippett 8.5___7___8.5    

Joey Porter     9___5     

Robert Porcher 11___5.5___4.5    

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/sacking-father-time-elite-pass-rushers-productive-into-their-30s/

Edited April 6, 2022 by unbillievable

[simpleman]

16 hours ago, unbillievable said:

I wrongly assumed that people remembered that Bruce played for the Redskins.

 

You just phrased the statement wrong. Go back and edit "We got Bruce Smith from Washington, not Buffalo." to "The older version we got of Von Miller is like the older version of Bruce Smith Washington got when he left Buffalo. Not the younger version of Bruce when he played  in Buffalo."  That makes it clearer and less cryptic and confusing to the reader.

[hondo in seattle]

5 hours ago, unbillievable said:

Hall of famers: Sacks age 32 and above.

 

Bruce Smith    10.5___13.5___14___10___7___10___5

Reggie White  13___8___12___8.5___11___16___5.5

Kevin Greene  14___9___14.5___10.5___15___12 

Jason Taylor   13.5___11___3.5___7___5___7 

Jared Allen      5.5      

John Abraham  13___9.5___10___11.5   

DeMarcus Ware  10      

Julius Peppers 11.5___ 7___7    

Dwight Freeney 5___0___3.5    

Robert Mathis  19.5      

Kevin Carter   6___5.5___3___4   

Charles Haley 0___0___3    

Andre Tippett 8.5___7___8.5    

Joey Porter     9___5     

Robert Porcher 11___5.5___4.5    

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/sacking-father-time-elite-pass-rushers-productive-into-their-30s/

 

 

The Von performs like the top three on the last, I'll be ecstatic.  If he does a Haley... Yikes!

[BritBill]

For me it's not the number of sacks Miller will get, it's when he gets them. He's been brought in and getting paid to win important plays and therefore games.

 

He could get just five sacks but if one of them is a game ended obliteration of Mahomes in the AFC Championship game and a big sack on an important 3rd down in the SB then he's done what he was brought in to do. 

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, BritBill said:

For me it's not the number of sacks Miller will get, it's when he gets them. He's been brought in and getting paid to win important plays and therefore games.

 

He could get just five sacks but if one of them is a game ended obliteration of Mahomes in the AFC Championship game and a big sack on an important 3rd down in the SB then he's done what he was brought in to do. 

 

The Bills aren't paying him to sack Wilson, Tua, Jones or anyone else during Sept thru Dec. Sure they want him to have a good regular season but he is here for what he does in Jan and (hopefully) Feb. 

[BritBill]

3 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

The Bills aren't paying him to sack Wilson, Tua, Jones or anyone else during Sept thru Dec. Sure they want him to have a good regular season but he is here for what he does in Jan and (hopefully) Feb. 

 

Absolutely. The regular season is for him to get a taste of blood before doing the real hunting. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

21 hours ago, Long Suffering Fan said:

This is behind a pay wall.  Joe B watched every snap from Miller last year.  It is a very long article which goes so far as analyzing some reps frame by frame to point to Miller's ability.

 

https://theathletic.com/3224175/2022/04/05/von-miller-buffalo-bills-film-review/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983

 

Some conclusions from the article:

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is much, much more...some interesting stuff about him rushing from the left and how he fits, etc.  Miller will have an impact, not only on his rushes, but his presence will help all of his teammates through the extra attention that he receives, stunts, and forcing the QB up into the pocket.  I think most of us were happy with the Von Miller signing, but we were all wary of his age and the length of his contract.  As strange as this may sound, after reading the article, I went from being really excited about the signing to wondering if this is actually much better than I thought.

 

Not to be blasphemous, but did we just add Bruce Smith?  Obviously, no.  No one was as good as Bruce, but did we just add something close?  I have that weird, excited feeling that the Bills fan in me tamps down with thoughts like - don't be a homer, don't get carried away - but there is a chance this could be really good.

 

 

From various things Beane and McDermott have said, I think they believe that Von Miller will have the same energizing effect on the DL that Diggs had on the WR room.

 

Diggs trade happened.  In 2020, you could see a big jump across the entire WR room.  Guys who would catch a ball on the sideline and step out (Brown in HOU playoff game) were suddenly dragging their toes and staying in.  Guys who wouldn't jump for a ball or come back, started doing so.  Routes got crisper. 

 

I'm sure Chad Hall had an impact, but from what the players have said, seems pretty clear a lot of the impact was Diggs, leading by example, pointing things out on film, etc.  That's what we got by trading for Diggs vs. keeping the pick and drafting a rookie.

 

We have 3 young DE who are, so far, not "all that and a bag of chips".  By all reports, Miller is not only a beast in trainng, he's a Bruce Smith-like student of the game, I think Beane and McD hope that he will raise the level on the DL, in a way that we simply weren't able to get from the guys who were here (Addison, Hughes, Obada)

 

[Starr Almighty]

8 hours ago, unbillievable said:

Hall of famers: Sacks age 32 and above.

 

Bruce Smith    10.5___13.5___14___10___7___10___5

Reggie White  13___8___12___8.5___11___16___5.5

Kevin Greene  14___9___14.5___10.5___15___12 

Jason Taylor   13.5___11___3.5___7___5___7 

Jared Allen      5.5      

John Abraham  13___9.5___10___11.5   

DeMarcus Ware  10      

Julius Peppers 11.5___ 7___7    

Dwight Freeney 5___0___3.5    

Robert Mathis  19.5      

Kevin Carter   6___5.5___3___4   

Charles Haley 0___0___3    

Andre Tippett 8.5___7___8.5    

Joey Porter     9___5     

Robert Porcher 11___5.5___4.5    

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/sacking-father-time-elite-pass-rushers-productive-into-their-30s/

I'll temper my expectations and take a Robert Mathis season

[BADOLBILZ]

18 minutes ago, Starr Almighty said:

I'll temper my expectations and take a Robert Mathis season

 

The NFL turns a blind eye to the juice to allow some of these players to have long careers.............but Mathis took juicing to a new level that year.  

[FilthyBeast]

3 hours ago, BritBill said:

For me it's not the number of sacks Miller will get, it's when he gets them. He's been brought in and getting paid to win important plays and therefore games.

 

He could get just five sacks but if one of them is a game ended obliteration of Mahomes in the AFC Championship game and a big sack on an important 3rd down in the SB then he's done what he was brought in to do. 

 

If Miller ends up with a very low sack count this year it's likely going to be because someone like Groot and/or Oliver explodes given the attention Miller is likely going to get.

 

That's the difference between Miller and guys like Addison & Hughes IMO regardless of the final sack count.

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, FilthyBeast said:

 

If Miller ends up with a very low sack count this year it's likely going to be because someone like Groot and/or Oliver explodes given the attention Miller is likely going to get.

 

That's the difference between Miller and guys like Addison & Hughes IMO regardless of the final sack count.

I'm interested to see if J. Phillips will get similar numbers as he did with Miller's addition too?? 

[FilthyBeast]

8 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

I'm interested to see if J. Phillips will get similar numbers as he did with Miller's addition too?? 

 

Looking at that big season he had in 2019 it definitely looks like an outlier when  you look at what he did in Arizona the last few years and every other year of his career previously.

 

But at the very least he's shown he's an effective pass rushing DT and definitely an upgrade over the likes of Vernon Butler.

 

In the end I'll be very surprised if the 2022 team doesn't have one of the higher combined sack counts, if not the highest number of sacks during McD/Frazier's time here.

[Patrick Duffy]

3 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Looking at that big season he had in 2019 it definitely looks like an outlier when  you look at what he did in Arizona the last few years and every other year of his career previously.

 

But at the very least he's shown he's an effective pass rushing DT and definitely an upgrade over the likes of Vernon Butler.

 

In the end I'll be very surprised if the 2022 team doesn't have one of the higher combined sack counts, if not the highest number of sacks during McD/Frazier's time here.

Yeah and that 2019 year with Bills there was nothing close to a pass rusher like V. Miller to get that attention yet he still got nice numbers. So not sure if he's just more comfortable in McD's type of defense than ARZ or what...

 

But either way the attention Miller is going to command will make a big diffrrence for the whole Dline. I'm really excited to see the difference in Dline this year

[Motor26]

21 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Joe raises some very important questions and then just concludes that the Bills will be able to solve them.   I'm not so sure. 

 

One is that Miller appears to be much better on the left side of the defense, and the Bills don't have anyone proven to play the right.  Rousseau only plays the left, Epenesa hasn't shown much, nor has Basham.  Lawson plays the left, too.  I don't see a solution to that.  Maybe Miller will play the right more this season, but Joe B points out that the Broncos figured out that he's better on the left, and the Rams seemed to figure it out, too. 

 

More of a problem, I think, is that Miller lines up wide, without a hand on the ground.  The Bills rarely put their DEs wide.  Joe says they don't because they're okay with forcing the running back to the outside, because the linebackers and DBs are good at shutting down the run out there.  Lining up wide lets Miller pick his route to the passer, but it also creates a gap to his inside for the running back, a gap that Edmunds has never shown he can control very well.  

 

McDermott and Frazier are smart, and I suspect they're already working on adjustments.   I can't imagine that the Bills spent the money on Miller to use him in a style that limits his effectiveness.  The whole point of getting him was to have a finisher, and if he's going to be a finisher the Bills have to put him in the best position to do what he does.   That means a right defensive end is going to have step up (AJ, Boogie, Shaq, or Rousseau), and the Bills' back seven will have to learn to shut down the off-tackle runs that Miller's style may give up. 

I agree with most of what you said, but I very vividly recall a play where Rousseau batted a ball and intercepted it from the right side against the Chiefs, so he’s played RDE before. I’m not basing this off that one play, but if I had to assume who would start at right end it would be Groot since he is the 2nd best end behind Miller.