Jerry Hughes saying goodbye?

[mrags]

It’s laughable the people think Epenesa or Basham are better than Hughes right now. I don’t agree that he’s better than Lawson because I think Shaq is actually a pretty solid DE. Especially against the run. 
 

The even more laughable argument is they are likely going to keep 10 DL on the roster. And that could easily include Hughes and not sacrifice the futures of anyone at this point. 
 

phillips

oliver

settle

jones

 

miller

rousseau

basham

epenesa

lawson

hughes

 

boom. I just settled it. We keep all these guys. If anyone thinks Mike Love, Eli Ankou, or Brandin Bryant is currently better than Hughes to be our 10th DL on the roster, you don’t have any business ever talking football with anyone ever again. You are awarded no points, we are all dumber for having listened to your argument. 
 

k bye 

 

[BillsFanForever19]

29 minutes ago, mrags said:

It’s laughable the people think Epenesa or Basham are better than Hughes right now. I don’t agree that he’s better than Lawson because I think Shaq is actually a pretty solid DE. Especially against the run. 
 

The even more laughable argument is they are likely going to keep 10 DL on the roster. And that could easily include Hughes and not sacrifice the futures of anyone at this point. 
 

phillips

oliver

settle

jones

 

miller

rousseau

basham

epenesa

lawson

hughes

 

boom. I just settled it. We keep all these guys. If anyone thinks Mike Love, Eli Ankou, or Brandin Bryant is currently better than Hughes to be our 10th DL on the roster, you don’t have any business ever talking football with anyone ever again. You are awarded no points, we are all dumber for having listened to your argument. 
 

k bye 

 

 

You are completely missing the point. It's not about Hughes v. Epenesa and Basham last season. It's not about who's viewed as better right this second by message board fans. It's about development. It's about investment. It's about what could be and finding out whether they can or can't.

 

We know what Jerry Hughes is. He's not getting better. If you think he's the same guy he was 4 or 5 years ago or isn't actively declining - you're fooling yourself. After a half of a season with Basham and 2 seasons of Epenesa - we don't know what they could become in their 2nd or 3rd years. Especially along Von Miller and DaQuan Jones in place of Hughes and Lotulelei/Phillips with Kaiir Elam behind them in place of Levi Wallace. 

 

And just disregarding them and burying them on the depth chart will hamper their development into what they can be. They aren't chalking those picks up as lost causes and it would be foolhardy to do so. There's still time and room to grow. That doesn't exist with Jerry Hughes at this point in his career. They were Drafted in large part because of Hughes age and decline in play. The lack of pass rush that he was providing. We must try to develop them and see what they can or cannot become. We spent 2 2nd Round picks on them. You have to be more patient than taking important reps away from them in years 2 and 3.

 

And your idea of keeping 6 DE's - we won't be dressing 6. So one player will be barely used if at all as the 5th and one won't dress as the 6th. We'll also need to carry an extra CB on the roster with White's injury to start the season. Possibly an extra Lineman with Boettger's. And possibly another TE with Howard surely getting more usage as the #2 than Sweeney did. I'd be surprised if we kept 6 DE's again.

 

You're oversimplifying matters that aren't as simple as you'd like them to be.

 

"k bye"

Edited May 9, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You are completely missing the point. It's not about Hughes v. Epenesa and Basham last season. It's not about who's better right this second. It's about development. It's about investment. It's about what could be and finding out whether they can or can't.

 

We know what Jerry Hughes is. He's not getting better. If you think he's the same guy he was 4 or 5 years ago or isn't actively declining - you're fooling yourself. After a half of a season with Basham and 2 seasons of Epenesa - we don't know what they could become in their 2nd or 3rd years. Especially along Von Miller and DaQuan Jones in place of Hughes and Lotulelei/Phillips with Kaiir Elam behind them in place of Levi Wallace. 

 

And just disregarding them and burying them on the depth chart will hamper their development into what they can be. They aren't chalking those picks up as lost causes and it would be foolhardy to do so. There's still time and room to grow. That doesn't exist with Jerry Hughes at this point in his career. They were Drafted in large part because of Hughes age and decline in play. The lack of pass rush that he was providing. We must try to develop them and see what they can or cannot become.

 

And your idea of keeping 6 DE's - we won't be dressing 6. So one player will be barely used if at all as the 5th and one won't dress as the 6th. We'll also need to carry an extra CB on the roster with White's injury to start the season. Possibly an extra Lineman with Boettger's. And possibly another TE with Howard surely getting more usage as the #2 than Sweeney did. I'd be surprised if we kept 6 DE's again.

 

You're oversimplifying matters that aren't as simple as you'd like them to be.

 

"k bye"

Epenesa hasn’t shown a single thing other than losing too much weight in the off-seasons. Imo, he’ll be lucky to not be outright cut this summer. 
 

youve made your argument completely clear. Nobody is having a hard time trying to find out what you are talking about. We just think you have no idea what your talking about. 

[BillsFanForever19]

17 minutes ago, mrags said:

Epenesa hasn’t shown a single thing other than losing too much weight in the off-seasons. Imo, he’ll be lucky to not be outright cut this summer. 
 

youve made your argument completely clear. Nobody is having a hard time trying to find out what you are talking about. We just think you have no idea what your talking about. 

 

Epenesa has played 2 years. You know who was considered a total bust after 3 years and given away for essentially a bag of balls? Jerry Hughes. 

 

I don't know that Epenesa or Basham will become great or not. And neither do you. The only way to know is for them to at least get rotational reps. You'd have us not do that and give up on Epenesa before the Colts gave up on Hughes. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Epenesa has played 2 years. You know who was considered a total bust after 3 years and given away for essentially a bag of balls? Jerry Hughes. 

 

I don't know that Epenesa or Basham will become great or not. And neither do you. The only way to know is for them to at least get rotational reps. You'd have us not do that and give up on Epenesa before the Colts gave up on Hughes. 

I’d have all 6 of them on the roster and as things continue to progress throughout the summer, I would know if Epenesa has even anything worth keeping. Which he hasn’t shown anything close to that in 2 years. Hughes is a vet and I am much more comfortable with a vet on game days as a 5th or 6th DE than a guy that gets pushed around by RBs 

[julian]

Some fans just become attached to players and let that adoration cloud their judgment.

 

 Sometimes it’s just the right moment to move on.

[YoloinOhio]

I always liked Hughes but his time has passed. way to many times where he bites on things and that allows the QB to move around or up the field. Hopefully he latches on somewhere if he still wants to play, he’s probably still a decent situational pass rusher on 3rd down. But there’s a reason he’s still on the market.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

6 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

You are completely missing the point. It's not about Hughes v. Epenesa and Basham last season. It's not about who's viewed as better right this second by message board fans. It's about development. It's about investment. It's about what could be and finding out whether they can or can't.

 

We know what Jerry Hughes is. He's not getting better. If you think he's the same guy he was 4 or 5 years ago or isn't actively declining - you're fooling yourself. After a half of a season with Basham and 2 seasons of Epenesa - we don't know what they could become in their 2nd or 3rd years. Especially along Von Miller and DaQuan Jones in place of Hughes and Lotulelei/Phillips with Kaiir Elam behind them in place of Levi Wallace. 

 

And just disregarding them and burying them on the depth chart will hamper their development into what they can be. They aren't chalking those picks up as lost causes and it would be foolhardy to do so. There's still time and room to grow. That doesn't exist with Jerry Hughes at this point in his career. They were Drafted in large part because of Hughes age and decline in play. The lack of pass rush that he was providing. We must try to develop them and see what they can or cannot become. We spent 2 2nd Round picks on them. You have to be more patient than taking important reps away from them in years 2 and 3.

 

And your idea of keeping 6 DE's - we won't be dressing 6. So one player will be barely used if at all as the 5th and one won't dress as the 6th. We'll also need to carry an extra CB on the roster with White's injury to start the season. Possibly an extra Lineman with Boettger's. And possibly another TE with Howard surely getting more usage as the #2 than Sweeney did. I'd be surprised if we kept 6 DE's again.

 

You're oversimplifying matters that aren't as simple as you'd like them to be.

 

"k bye"

 

6 hours ago, mrags said:

Epenesa hasn’t shown a single thing other than losing too much weight in the off-seasons. Imo, he’ll be lucky to not be outright cut this summer. 
 

youve made your argument completely clear. Nobody is having a hard time trying to find out what you are talking about. We just think you have no idea what your talking about. 

 

6 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Epenesa has played 2 years. You know who was considered a total bust after 3 years and given away for essentially a bag of balls? Jerry Hughes. 

 

I don't know that Epenesa or Basham will become great or not. And neither do you. The only way to know is for them to at least get rotational reps. You'd have us not do that and give up on Epenesa before the Colts gave up on Hughes. 

 

They kept 11 D lineman on the 53 last season, currently only have 9 non including Byrant, Ankou, and Love (sounds like a law firm)  I do think there's a decent chance they still sign Zimmer back and he's on PUP at least the first half of the year.

 

I'd argue Epenesa has only played 1.5 years as his rookie year, no mini camps, or pre-season games and a more reduced training camp.  I wouldn't bet against him not becoming a bust, but agree we need to give him a chance to see what he can do.  IMO there's no shame in the fact that he couldn't get playing time ahead of Hughes or Addison.

 

I also think he may be one of these guys that its taking awhile to figure out the right mic for him on playing weight to not lose either speed or strength.

[WhoTom]

13 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

JFC that where I get my fried chicken 🍗 

 

Our local JFC closed down, but a few days later it reopened.

 

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I always liked Hughes but his time has passed. way to many times where he bites on things and that allows the QB to move around or up the field. Hopefully he latches on somewhere if he still wants to play, he’s probably still a decent situational pass rusher on 3rd down. But there’s a reason he’s still on the market.

I think the chiefs game is still fresh in your head.  Jerry did a great job of filling his lane and staying in his lane all season.  In most cases that he would get pressure, the other DL would get stonewalled and unable to clean up his mess.  Watch the chiefs game again…,watch the 7 pressures that Jerry had and watch what the other DL are doing.  It’s pretty sad.  He was a one man gang playing a game that requires teammates.  

Edited May 9, 2022 by NewEra

[Solomon Grundy]

10 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Epenesa has played 2 years. You know who was considered a total bust after 3 years and given away for essentially a bag of balls? Jerry Hughes. 

Is this why the Bills are holding out hope for Cody Ford?

[RocCityRoller]

11 hours ago, mrags said:

It’s laughable the people think Epenesa or Basham are better than Hughes right now. I don’t agree that he’s better than Lawson because I think Shaq is actually a pretty solid DE. Especially against the run.

 

If Hughes has so much left why has no other team picked him up? Addison got picked up before Hughes did.

 

I know Hughes was a fan favorite, but he is nearly washed and will never get a call from the officials. I really liked Hughes as a Bill, great trade for Buffalo, but all careers come to an end.

 

Hughes dressed for 16 games and had 18 Tak, 2 sacks, 7 QB hits and 1 tackle for a loss on 558 defensive snaps

Basham dressed for 8 games and had 18 Tak, 2.5 sacks, 3 QB hits, and 4 tackles for a loss on 201 defensive snaps

Epenessa dressed for 14 games and had 14 Tak, 1.5 sacks, 9 QB hits, and 2 tackles for a loss on 330 defensive snaps

The 'drop off' from Hughes to Basham or Epenessa is very exaggerated here. Basham had more sacks and TFL, and the same number of tackles on 40% of Hughes' snap count. Epenessa had more QB hits and TFL on 60% of Jerry's snap count. Basham and Epenessa were more efficient with their limited snaps than Jerry. They are younger, have more upside, are cheaper and are more efficient. Jerry did have 2 FF, the other guys did not, some of that comes with playing time. Time to let the young guys get their snaps.

[BuffaloRebound]

My guess is that Hughes or Addison could’ve had Lawson’s spot, but they were both either too proud or thought they could’ve got more money elsewhere.  

[NewEra]

21 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Is this why the Bills are holding out hope for Cody Ford?

Why would we bring in Saffold when Cody ford could still breakout?  
 

It’s time for Hodgins to have his breakout season, why would we stunt his growth by signing crowder?  

 

Why bring in quessenberry when Doyle is developing.  He’ll be losing valuable reps!

 

Why draft James Cook? Zack Moss is entering year 3.  He’s losing valuable reps!

 

answer:  because we’re trying to win a super bowl….not JUST develop players. 
 

There are obvious reasons for him to return. There are obvious reason for them to move on.  Yet we have people here saying that it makes no sense for either the Bills or Jerry…… and that couldn’t be more wrong. There are obvious reasons for both sides.  Whather or not it happens is a different story.  

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Why would we bring in Saffold when Cody ford could still breakout?  
 

It’s time for Hodgins to have his breakout season, why would we stunt his growth by signing crowder?  

 

Why bring in quessenberry when Doyle is developing.  He’ll be losing valuable reps!

 

Why draft James Cook? Zack Moss is entering year 3.  He’s losing valuable reps!

 

answer:  because we’re trying to win a super bowl….not JUST develop players. 
 

There are obvious reasons for him to return. There are obvious reason for them to move on.  Yet we have people here saying that it makes no sense for either the Bills or Jerry…… and that couldn’t be more wrong. There are obvious reasons for both sides.  Whather or not it happens is a different story.  

 

Exaggeration much? You are comparing apples to oranges here. We also brought in Von Miller at Edge with these guys on the roster.

 

I'm not advocating these guys should have started. But you've already decided they're "JAGs" after a season and a half of Epenesa and 8 games of Basham. You're arguing they should not only not start, they shouldn't even be given rotational reps AT ALL, possibly sacrificing the future for a guy who has none - while also comparing 2nd Round investments to 5th and 7th Rounders 🙄

Edited May 9, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Is this why the Bills are holding out hope for Cody Ford?

 

That and he was an even bigger investment than Epenesa and Basham were. We spent a top 10 pick in the 2nd Round and a 5th Round pick to trade up for him. These types of investments are going to get at least 3 years of development. 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

That and he was an even bigger investment than Epenesa and Basham were. We spent a top 10 pick in the 2nd Round and a 5th Round pick to trade up for him. These types of investments are going to get at least 3 years of development. 

I think He was a little sarcastic 

 

I don't think the bills have much hope at all for Cody Ford besides maybe being a swing guard 

 

Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane

[FilthyBeast]

9 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I always liked Hughes but his time has passed. way to many times where he bites on things and that allows the QB to move around or up the field. Hopefully he latches on somewhere if he still wants to play, he’s probably still a decent situational pass rusher on 3rd down. But there’s a reason he’s still on the market.

 

I'm not sure what some fans don't get about this.

 

He was a valuable contributor here through the years including a great run during Marrone years in 2013 - 2014, but it's not like he's a HOF player or anywhere in the same class as Bruce Smith or Mario Williams were. And speaking of the latter, you can argue the only reason Hughes even did good those two years was because of him on the other side.

 

I'll still be really surprised if he's even makes a teams final roster this year because I really do think he's finished period and we even hung on to him a year too long.

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Exaggeration much? You are comparing apples to oranges here. We also brought in Von Miller at Edge with these guys on the roster.

 

I'm not advocating these guys should have started. But you've already decided they're "JAGs" after a season and a half of Epenesa and 8 games of Basham. You're arguing they should not only not start, they shouldn't even be given rotational reps AT ALL, possibly sacrificing the future for a guy who has none - while also comparing 2nd Round investments to 5th and 7th Rounders 🙄

No, I’m not.  I’m talking about a super bowl run.  A super bowl run in which we can use as many good pass rushers as we can get.  Right now, we have one great pass rusher at end, 1 guy we hope we will be great (but good is his likely ceiling imo), 2 guys that have shown next to nothing and a minimum salary castoff that is better than the 2 guys that have shown next to nothing.   
 

I’m not talking about development.  I’m talking about adding talent for the 2022 super bowl run.  Playing the best talent possible.  Basham, epenesa and Shaq are all lesser than Jerry.  Jerry would make out team better.  Period 

 

That is not comparing apples to oranges unless you change the conversation.  I made a comment, you cranked out a bunch of reasons why they shouldn’t sign him and said that it doesn’t make sense for either party…..and that’s untrue.  Make up some nonsense than accuse me of exaggerating….  Not surprised

6 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think He was a little sarcastic 

 

I don't think the bills have much hope at all for Cody Ford besides maybe being a swing guard 

 

Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane

You think right. But he has to use that as support for his argument that “it makes not sense for either the bills or Jerry”…..even though it doesn’t support it at all.  

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

No, I’m not.  I’m talking about a super bowl run.  A super bowl run in which we can use as many good pass rushers as we can get.  Right now, we have one great pass rusher at end, 1 guy we hope we will be great (but good is his likely ceiling imo), 2 guys that have shown next to nothing and a minimum salary castoff that is better than the 2 guys that have shown next to nothing.   
 

I’m not talking about development.  I’m talking about adding talent for the 2022 super bowl run.  Playing the best talent possible.  Basham, epenesa and Shaq are all lesser than Jerry.  Jerry would make out team better.  Period 

 

That is not comparing apples to oranges unless you change the conversation.  I made a comment, you cranked out a bunch of reasons why they shouldn’t sign him and said that it doesn’t make sense for either party…..and that’s untrue.  Make up some nonsense than accuse me of exaggerating….  Not surprised

You think right. But he has to use that as support for his argument that “it makes not sense for either the bills or Jerry”…..even though it doesn’t support it at all.  

 

Here you go bolding everything again like the under 30" CB arm post you tried to claim after you edited the post that it wasn't about McDuffie, who ended up being the first CB drafted after Sauce and Stingley and wasn't even on the board when we picked.

 

And just like that post, you're completely disregarding all other factors and pointing to one thing as the be all, end of any other conversation points.

 

You call it "changing the conversation". I call it bringing up factors that you want to completely disregard. You keep talking like Jerry Hughes is going to win us a Super Bowl. When the League has determined he's no longer close to what he was by literally every team in the league passing on giving him a starting role or one that gets substantial reps. If he is still as good as you believe he is - he wouldn't come back here for the role he'd be asked to play at this point.

 

Ultimately, if it was the no-brainer, simple as that decision as you claim - we'd have made the move by now.

Edited May 9, 2022 by BillsFanForever19