Thoughts on New York City?

[Another Fan]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

I live close enough to go whenever I want but rarely do.  More of a hassle than it's worth.

Same here.

 

I do enjoy the occasional drive into Staten Island.  Some good parks there with some beautiful views that are underrated imo.  I've driven into Brooklyn for the Botanical Gardens and Brooklyn Museum not that long ago.  

 

But yeah Manhattan itself I haven't been to before the pandemic.  The last time was maybe 4 years ago I went to the Museum of Natural History.  Too many people to take it and enjoy it.  Plus it being a pain to get there despite it being relatively close.  

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

17 hours ago, Augie said:

My wife “technically” works out of NYC. Prior to Covid she would be there about three times a month. She was usually around the office near Grand Central, but the main HQ is in the financial district. She always complains that she just sees the airport, the hotel and the office. Just before the pandemic I told her to build a little extra time and I joined her for some great evenings and we went to see To Kill a MocKingbird. We had a great time. In fact, our puppy is named Scout after the play character. 

 

Having said that, I had plenty of time to walk around every day. Like 20k+ steps per day. It’s a $hithole IMO and I can’t imagine living there. It was supposed to be a requirement of her position, but she said no way. The boss said it wasn’t a dealbreaker as long as she was willing to do 3 weeks/month in the NYC office. 

 

The weekend before the Bills opener last year we were at a wedding in Chicago. The downtown was SO MUCH nicer it was hard to believe. I hadn’t been to either downtown since college days. No comparison, again, IMO. 

 

Having said THAT, I want no part of either. The reality is you would live so far out of town you would never see the good parts, or you’d live IN town in a shoe box that would cost a fortune. I’m more a quality of life kinda guy. 

if I had a place I sort of liked on our last trip, it was lower Manhattan and the financial district. Just seemed a little cleaner, open, and less crowded. We made our way up into Chinatown and little Italy— which, while crowded, had a great vibe and we hit up some great food spots. 
 

We went to a great show also, but it is funny— I was telling my wife that if I had to guess, 90% of people at these shows (and nice restaurants) have to be tourists. I don’t think the people that live in NY do any of that stuff on a regular basis— which is funny, because over the years, that seems like the appeal to draw people to live there (theatre, restaurants, night life).

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

if I had a place I sort of liked on our last trip, it was lower Manhattan and the financial district. Just seemed a little cleaner, open, and less crowded. We made our way up into Chinatown and little Italy— which, while crowded, had a great vibe and we hit up some great food spots. 
 

We went to a great show also, but it is funny— I was telling my wife that if I had to guess, 90% of people at these shows (and nice restaurants) have to be tourists. I don’t think the people that live in NY do any of that stuff on a regular basis— which is funny, because over the years, that seems like the appeal to draw people to live there (theatre, restaurants, night life).

Last trip we stayed at the Four Seasons in the financial district. It was indeed nicer than most other areas and felt cleaner. The wife usually stays near Grand Central and recently started using an upgraded hotel and she’s happy about that. It does have different vibes as you move about, and certain areas are VERY touristy.

 

I don’t mean to be TOO harsh, because there are so many great things to see and do. But I can’t imagine what that lifestyle would be like. Rather than spend more than what my car is worth for breakfast at the hotel I walked to a Whole Foods looking for something simple. I believe there were 38 check-out lanes for the two story operation, and each line was a mile long. I walked around the corner to some little bodega and grabbed a banana and a bottle of water. Store front after store front of questionable looking businesses, but that is “normal” for these folks. I’m sure having a local show you around would make a big difference. 

 

I can’t imagine living there, and what it would cost. It was “the cool thing to do” when my son and his friends graduated from college. A LOT of them moved to NYC, and almost every single one of them left after a few years. 

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

if I had a place I sort of liked on our last trip, it was lower Manhattan and the financial district. Just seemed a little cleaner, open, and less crowded. We made our way up into Chinatown and little Italy— which, while crowded, had a great vibe and we hit up some great food spots. 
 

We went to a great show also, but it is funny— I was telling my wife that if I had to guess, 90% of people at these shows (and nice restaurants) have to be tourists. I don’t think the people that live in NY do any of that stuff on a regular basis— which is funny, because over the years, that seems like the appeal to draw people to live there (theatre, restaurants, night life).

 

35 minutes ago, Augie said:

Last trip we stayed at the Four Seasons in the financial district. It was indeed nicer than most other areas and felt cleaner. The wife usually stays near Grand Central and recently started using an upgraded hotel and she’s happy about that. It does have different vibes as you move about, and certain areas are VERY touristy.

 

I don’t mean to be TOO harsh, because there are so many great things to see and do. But I can’t imagine what that lifestyle would be like. Rather than spend more than what my car is worth for breakfast at the hotel I walked to a Whole Foods looking for something simple. I believe there were 38 check-out lanes for the two story operation, and each line was a mile long. I walked around the corner to some little bodega and grabbed a banana and a bottle of water. Store front after store front of questionable looking businesses, but that is “normal” for these folks. I’m sure having a local show you around would make a big difference. 

 

I can’t imagine living there, and what it would cost. It was “the cool thing to do” when my son and his friends graduated from college. A LOT of them moved to NYC, and almost every single one of them left after a few years. 

 

Totally agree re: the financial district.  I got a room in a hotel across the street from the Westfield mall on a reservation site through work.  There was some sort of glitch and I got the room for like $120/night.  Subway station was right across the street (same side) from the hotel, so it was super convenient.  That was the year we did the Observatory, so that was just a short walk away.

 

We use the subway to get everywhere (we - as in my son and I; years ago, my then-wife didn't like using them).  One of my must-do's whilst in the city is to walk by the Dakota, then to Strawberry Fields in Central Park.  

 

For years, we'd stay at the Belvedere in the Hell's Kitchen area.  I would leave my son and his mother in the room to sleep in/take forever to get ready and head out on my walk.  That's when I would go to Strawberry Fields.  It was a nice jaunt, but it relaxed me.

 

Now, my son enjoys it, so we make it part of our plans when we go.

[WotAGuy]

This fall I was in Harlem for a few days and walked all over. There are some amazing churches that were beautiful inside and out. Also spent some time visiting in mid-town and around the south end of Central Park. Loved both areas.

 

I found you just have to adopt a different set of expectations when in NYC; you have to be more aware of your surroundings, avoid being alone on the streets after dark, and accept that it’s a dirty, grimey sh!thole here and there. 
 

But it definitely has a cool vibe and getting around is quite easy. Went down to The Rock for the Christmas displays which was great for people watching and getting into the season. 
 

 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

 

Totally agree re: the financial district.  I got a room in a hotel across the street from the Westfield mall on a reservation site through work.  There was some sort of glitch and I got the room for like $120/night.  Subway station was right across the street (same side) from the hotel, so it was super convenient.  That was the year we did the Observatory, so that was just a short walk away.

 

We use the subway to get everywhere (we - as in my son and I; years ago, my then-wife didn't like using them).  One of my must-do's whilst in the city is to walk by the Dakota, then to Strawberry Fields in Central Park.  

 

For years, we'd stay at the Belvedere in the Hell's Kitchen area.  I would leave my son and his mother in the room to sleep in/take forever to get ready and head out on my walk.  That's when I would go to Strawberry Fields.  It was a nice jaunt, but it relaxed me.

 

Now, my son enjoys it, so we make it part of our plans when we go.

 

The wife uses Uber or taxis to get around. I joined her on a trip right before Covid and we were heading from the Four Seasons in the financial district up the the theater district for dinner and to see To Kill a Mocking Bird (which was awesome, BTW, and our puppy is named Scout!). We decided to take the subway, and we had absolutely no idea what we were doing! I wish there was a video of that! It was so hysterical some kid had to come to our rescue! 

 

The November after 9/11 we took the kids and stayed in Time Square. You forget how much was unknown at the time, and we considered canceling but went anyway. Ground Zero was incredibly moving. Like you, when the family went down I went out of the hotel and made a right, then another right. About a block later I found a little nothing looking hole in the wall place. Nothing fancy, but I turned in and it had that NYC energy to it. They had one of those real “professional bartenders” who you know had been there forever. I sat at the bar and had what was probably the best steak of my life. Decades later I look mack and that and it blew me away. I wonder how much of that was the steak, and how much was the setting and the energy. 

 

Speaking of 9/11, about a month later a new kid showed up to try out for our son’s travel soccer team in Florida. (How do you get good at soccer in Manhattan?) His dad worked in the WTC, but was working from home that day. His mom had been inside 20 minutes before the first plane hit. The dad watched from their home as almost everyone he worked with died. They moved out of NYC and never looked back. It was a VERY difficult topic for them, as you would imagine. 

[BillsPride12]

Put me down in the I enjoy visiting but wouldn't want to live there category.  I've only visited twice in my life but enjoyed both times.  The first time I went I was only 18 so having grown up in WNY and not doing much traveling as a kid, getting to go to NYC then was a great introduction to seeing big city life.  It had the larger than life feel for sure.  I think I always felt a cool mystique about NYC going back to being a little kid and being really into Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles(the first two movies take place in NYC) and then was a huge Seinfeld fan growing up right through now and the show always made NYC seem fun.

 

I haven't been since 2009(it's funny how that seems so long ago now😥) so I guess that's enough time where things could look and feel completely different than it was then.  That time I went I was with my Dad and Brother and will be a memory I will cherish for the rest of my life.

[Just Jack]

On 4/2/2022 at 12:01 PM, Gugny said:

I live about a 3 hour drive north of there.  We hop a train about 2 hours north of the city, then just take the train in and walk (or take a subway) to our hotel.  Used to drive in, but even though it's cheaper, I enjoy the restful trip in/out.

 

That's what the wife and I did last time we went, we did the train from Beacon.  Typically, though we'll take Greyhound from Syracuse.  

[Success]

I think visiting NYC is different from living there.

 

I visited for many years, and had similar impressions as the OP.  But when I started living there, I really grew to love it.  For me, it was about discovering "my" NY, and I saw that in other people who I got to know.  You make the City smaller & more accessible when you find your niche.

 

I don't live there anymore, but I love going back.  When it comes to food & culture, there is no place that's more interesting & varied.  I also love the attitude of new yorkers - no nonsense & tough as nails.

 

[Johnny Hammersticks]

I go there at least a couple times a year.  Usually a group of us HS friends catch a Syracuse basketball game at MSG and make a long weekend out of it.  I take the train in from Poughkeepsie which makes the trip much easier, and we always stay at the Chelsea Savoie Hotel because it’s clean and cheap.  I will say that after 3-4 days I’m ready to GTFO tho.  Can be very overwhelming.  

[Warcodered]

 

[SoTier]

Like many very large cities, I think that New York City is a great place to live if you're very wealthy and can afford to take advantage of the all the city has to offer.  I think the quality of life declines quickly for NYC residents as income levels approach middle income, much more so than for residents of other major cities.   Long before housing prices in the rest of the country went berserk, NYC suffered from an affordable housing shortage even for people earning six figure incomes.  It's worse now, but many people who embrace the city willingly sacrifice a lot to live there.

 

When I lived in Albany, I would visit NYC for work a couple of times of a year.  I share with others the idea that NYC is a great place to visit but wouldn't want to live there.   I'm good with living in an overgrown small town of 30k where the local dining choices are Olive Garden or the Lakewood Rod and the big event of the summer is the Lucille Ball Comedy Festival.

[Golden*Wheels]

I used to enjoy (pre Covid) the occasional trip in for business. Easy train ride in from CT, walk the city, get the feel of the city (and the smell on your clothes), etc. But 2-3 times a year was PLENTY. Truly a "nice place to visit but wouldn't want to live there" for me.

 

(Nice to be able to take the kids into the city for the museums too.)

[HereComesTheReignAgain]

On 4/2/2022 at 11:17 AM, Doc said:

I live close enough to go whenever I want but rarely do.  More of a hassle than it's worth.

Do you happen to be the "Doc" that hangs out with the North NJ Bills Backers on occasion?

[PastaJoe]

I’ve been to NYC a few times. The last couple we drove to Poughkeepsie and took the train into the city and stayed at a hotel on Times Square. I like walking around and exploring. Central Park, the museums, Bronx Zoo, Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island, Intrepid aircraft carrier, 9/11 memorial, Steven Colbert show, and just sitting in Times Square people watching. We went to the library by Bryant Park and we’re able to look up ancestry records. I found an ancestor with my same name going back to 1700’s Poland. There’s always something new to find every time we go.

[Jauronimo]

On 4/2/2022 at 6:00 AM, Bill from NYC said:

This thread belongs in PPP. It is impossible to explain what has happened in NYC without getting into politics to some degree, and I'm not willing to go there.

 

What I feel like I can say is that thousands of people are leaving NYC. Houses on Long Island are selling for at least 5% over the asking prices. There are bidding wars on houses, sight unseen. I know this to be true; my daughter bought one.  In addition to Long Island, folks are moving to Florida, Tennessee, the Carolinas, and other states. In NYC, the crime rates are soaring in every category and the city is filthy. 

You are putting your life on the line riding on the subway. People (mainly women, Asians, and Hasidic Jews) are getting stabbed and tossed onto the train tracks. 

 

I could go on, but not without sounding political.

 

It will take the city years to recover, assuming that it will (it usually does).

5% over ask would make Long Island the coldest real estate market in the nation.  Waiving inspections, buying site unseen, houses selling in hours has been the norm in all hot metro areas.

 

3.3 million took the MTA on March 31st.  I'm guessing at least half of them lived.  Crime rates are up all over the country.  This isn't specific to NYC.  

 

With remote work opportunities people no longer need to live to close to the workplace.  Its driving people from all HCOL areas to lower cost of living areas.  The narrative is the same across California, NY, Illinois.  Thats the migration.  No discussion of politics is necessary.

[SoTier]

26 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

5% over ask would make Long Island the coldest real estate market in the nation.  Waiving inspections, buying site unseen, houses selling in hours has been the norm in all hot metro areas.

 

3.3 million took the MTA on March 31st.  I'm guessing at least half of them lived.  Crime rates are up all over the country.  This isn't specific to NYC.  

 

With remote work opportunities people no longer need to live to close to the workplace.  Its driving people from all HCOL areas to lower cost of living areas.  The narrative is the same across California, NY, Illinois.  Thats the migration.  No discussion of politics is necessary.

 

In a lot of ways, migration shapes politics rather than vice versa because long term migration trends profoundly change places.  Nowhere is this more evident than in North America, and especially the US which has witnessed huge mass migrations over its entire existence, starting with the influx of Europeans displacing Native peoples, but also including:

• the forced migration of African slaves to the New World;
• the relentless Westward Movement from the 18th century to the present;
• the mass immigration of eastern and southern Europeans in the late 19th and early 20th century;
• the migration from farms to towns and cities because of industrialization since the mid-19th century;
• the Great Migration of southern Blacks from the South to the North, Midwest and West the began around WW I (concurrent with the"Hillbilly Highway" migration of poor whites out of Appalachia for similar places);
• the Okie migration to the West Coast because of the Dust Bowl in the 1930s;
• the migration of Hispanics, especially Mexicans, into the Southwestern US over the last century;
• the migration of Americans out of central cities into suburban and exurban areas since WW II.

The migration of middle class people out of large HCOL metros for places with more moderate costs may be the start of a new mass migration.  It may also be one of the first and most easily identified ways that the covid pandemic has changed the country, but it's highly unlikely to be the most profound one. 

[Nextmanup]

NYC is, at the same time, arguably the best city in the world and the worst city in the world.

 

That sums it up.

 

There's no place quite like it, good or bad.

 

 

[rockpile]

For me, NYC is memories. It has been close to a decade since I went there. I have always loved going there, though. 

 

I I first went to NYC when I was about 19, arriving around sunset just to spend the night tooling around Times Square, Greenwich Village, and soak it in. The place totally blew my mind (this was in the early seventies. I was with friends who knew where to go, and where not to go. Went back a couple years later to go to Chinatown, and later a David Bromberg concert in Central Park. The seventies in NYC was a circus - wild and crazy. We got home to NJ just after dawn.

 

Decades later we went back for a vacation, and had so much fun we went back almost every year. We always stayed in low end hotels on 34th Street, 42nd Street, in the Big Apple Hostel right in the center of Times Square and Broadway, and once in a VRBO condo in the financial district.  This was the first decade of the  2000's. We would leave Rochester in the early AM and reach the Lincoln Tunnel in about 5 hours. If we got to our hotel and parked by 7:30 AM, the traffic was little problem. We would then grab breakfast and catch a nap.

 

On the first vacation, we saw the WTC from the Liberty Island Ferry, passed the Statue of Liberty, and went to Ellis Island. Going to a Yankees game was an annual event, at the old and new Yankee Stadiums. As the years passed, we watched things going downhill. We stopped going there before the Trade Center Memorial was finished. The last time we were there we were in Bubba Gump Shrimp under a lockdown and bungled terrorist bombing a few building away. Looking out on Times Square was like a CSI episode: black vans, dozens of special forces, bomb specialists in armor, etc. Luckily it was a failure to ignite a VW bug full of propane tanks. When it was safe we just went about our business. It was amazing how everyone just took it in stride. 

 

That did not stop us from going to NY, we just spent our time more with our daughter in Connecticut. I would LOVE to go again one day. 

 

I really miss the "free" years of just wandering around the city: Times Square (John's Pizza), Central Park, the Seaport (Pier 17), Battery Park, Chinatown, and Brooklyn. Now I do not know if it would be a fun place to go and stay for a few days.

4 hours ago, SoTier said:

Like many very large cities, I think that New York City is a great place to live if you're very wealthy and can afford to take advantage of the all the city has to offer.  I think the quality of life declines quickly for NYC residents as income levels approach middle income, much more so than for residents of other major cities.   Long before housing prices in the rest of the country went berserk, NYC suffered from an affordable housing shortage even for people earning six figure incomes.  It's worse now, but many people who embrace the city willingly sacrifice a lot to live there.

 

When I lived in Albany, I would visit NYC for work a couple of times of a year.  I share with others the idea that NYC is a great place to visit but wouldn't want to live there.   I'm good with living in an overgrown small town of 30k where the local dining choices are Olive Garden or the Lakewood Rod and the big event of the summer is the Lucille Ball Comedy Festival.

 

I always said that if I lived in NYC, I would want to be a multimillionaire, with no job to decide my schedule, and I could afford a nice place to live, a driver, and money for all the things the Big Apple has to offer. 

[rockpile]

On 4/2/2022 at 9:38 AM, muppy said:

 

my brooklyn son escaped the city with help from in laws and purchased a home in Ulster County (Kingston) it is a great NY location with easy access to the city (commutable drive even) Albany, Woodstock etc. He lucked out to buy when he did. The prices were as you wrote going up and up with NYC refugees, they paid 20 grand above ask to get the house. Soooo happy for them. Spare muproom OH YES lol

 

m

 

@leh-nerd skin-erd 

 

Now the people in Woodstock, Kingston, Saugerties, and other places an hour or so bus ride to the City are seeing property values rising so quickly, they cannot pay their taxes and many are not able to afford to renew their lease when it runs out and the rent has tripled. We stay in Woodstock for several days with friends every autumn, and we have had to scale down our rental. It is sad for the locals, in my opinion. It is a beautiful part of the Catskills that is becoming suburbia