I don't think WR is a need. We got a breakout star on our roster already

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

3 hours ago, freddyjj said:

As noted in earlier response, Univ Houston plays in AAC, the  American Athletic  Conference.  Weakens OP's take even more so. 

 

 

OK OP's post stated he played in ACC, not AAC.  I didn't look him up, but yes agree even more AAC is a step down a bit further from ACC.  Houston and Cincy are top programs but after that it drops off, though not sure ACC is much deeper.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, a couple of points here.

 

First, while you're right about how long passes are a relatively infrequent play and in your list of "things that can go wrong", there's a counter point that any WR who is good at tracking the ball can adjust for an underthrown pass.  But a true burner, the guy with the "extra gear", can adjust to an OVER thrown pass or one which the wind picks up and carries.

 

Second, there's a thread on the board right now showing the effect of arm strength on a long pass.  It's an under-appreciated point that arm strength affects throws to the sideline and over the middle of the field - it allows the QB to safely fit the ball into windows he couldn't manage with less zip.  But the same thing applies to WR speed.  It's not just a factor on deep routes.  Tyreek Hill has been killing teams with his ability to take a short pass, turn upfield, and smoke everyone.  Defenders think they've got an angle on him, and he turns on the jets and they miss.  Then there's the ability to outrun defenders on a simple crosser, or just to execute the route more quickly before the pass rush swallows the QB.  Frankly, I thought that's where Beasley had lost a bit this season even before the rib injury, though maybe I'm wrong.

 

Anyway, don't under-rate the importance of those extra 5 feet in the same time.  They don't just matter vertically.

 

 

Well that's true about the Tyrek Hill type WR with speed after the catch and turning a 15 yard completion into a TD.  But even if Stevenson shows more ability than many think here think he will myself included and becomes the #4 WR, looking at the Bills WR group as a whole, do you think Stevenson would ever be used in that role or would he be the guy they say "you go long"?

 

I do wonder though too, does the QB factor in that "extra 5 feet" himself and think OK with his speed I'll throw it a little further yet, so it still ends up overthrown?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Well that's true about the Tyrek Hill type WR with speed after the catch and turning a 15 yard completion into a TD.  But even if Stevenson shows more ability than many think here think he will myself included and becomes the #4 WR, looking at the Bills WR group as a whole, do you think Stevenson would ever be used in that role or would he be the guy they say "you go long"?

 

I do wonder though too, does the QB factor in that "extra 5 feet" himself and think OK with his speed I'll throw it a little further yet, so it still ends up overthrown?

 

I think there are different philosophies on the deep ball.  There was a former QB (I forget which one - not a top guy) who was dissing off everything Jordan Palmer said about how to throw a deep ball to a "spot on the field".  I don't think you get this much dissent unless there are multiple ideas about how to 'get 'er done'.

 

Obviously it's better to throw it where no one can get  at it, than to throw it short for a pick. 

 

My understanding is that the WR has a "normal for them" fast speed that if they get a reasonably clean release and aren't being held, will let them get to the ball and that's what the QB throws for.  Then the best deep WR have an "afterburner" they can turn on to make up ground if they see the ball is caught up in the wind or got over-thrown.
 

So far, I personally don't think Stevenson has shown he belongs on an NFL field.  I'm not dismissing him out of hand - it often takes late round guys a year or two to develop and speed is "uncoachable", but his field awareness and ability to follow his blockers on returns last season did not seem good to me.  He didn't get many offensive snaps during the season, but from what I saw preseason he didn't seem like a guy with enough developed release or route-running skills to be able to be WR #4 at this point.  Doesn't mean he couldn't become that guy - I would have said the same about Isaiah McKenzie in 2018 and 2019 and really he only started to look like he could actually run routes in 2020 and 2021.

 

The problem with the "one trick pony" like the "jet sweep guy" or the "you go long" guy, is that after a while the opponent sees them on the field and says "OK, this is what's coming".  That's the reason we saw less of McKenzie for a while after some success - he had become the "he's on the field, OK, here comes the reverse or the jet sweep", and it wasn't until he developed the ability to release and to run some slants and crossers and even to pick up the occasional LB on the blitz (!!!) that he was able to be useful.  I believe it's also the reason we moved away from Bob Foster, he got tagged as the "deep guy" and the word was out, he's going deep, jam that guy on the line, bump him within 5 yds, you can throw him off and otherwise, if you have to, just hold him.

 

 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think there are different philosophies on the deep ball.  There was a former QB (I forget which one - not a top guy) who was dissing off everything Jordan Palmer said about how to throw a deep ball to a "spot on the field".  I don't think you get this much dissent unless there are multiple ideas about how to 'get 'er done'.

 

Obviously it's better to throw it where no one can get  at it, than to throw it short for a pick. 

 

My understanding is that the WR has a "normal for them" fast speed that if they get a reasonably clean release and aren't being held, will let them get to the ball and that's what the QB throws for.  Then the best deep WR have an "afterburner" they can turn on to make up ground if they see the ball is caught up in the wind or got over-thrown.
 

So far, I personally don't think Stevenson has shown he belongs on an NFL field.  I'm not dismissing him out of hand - it often takes late round guys a year or two to develop and speed is "uncoachable", but his field awareness and ability to follow his blockers on returns last season did not seem good to me.  He didn't get many offensive snaps during the season, but from what I saw preseason he didn't seem like a guy with enough developed release or route-running skills to be able to be WR #4 at this point.  Doesn't mean he couldn't become that guy - I would have said the same about Isaiah McKenzie in 2018 and 2019 and really he only started to look like he could actually run routes in 2020 and 2021.

 

The problem with the "one trick pony" like the "jet sweep guy" or the "you go long" guy, is that after a while the opponent sees them on the field and says "OK, this is what's coming".  That's the reason we saw less of McKenzie for a while after some success - he had become the "he's on the field, OK, here comes the reverse or the jet sweep", and it wasn't until he developed the ability to release and to run some slants and crossers and even to pick up the occasional LB on the blitz (!!!) that he was able to be useful.  I believe it's also the reason we moved away from Bob Foster, he got tagged as the "deep guy" and the word was out, he's going deep, jam that guy on the line, bump him within 5 yds, you can throw him off and otherwise, if you have to, just hold him.

 

 

 

Yeah overall see the same with Stevenson. Never know, he could become the next Antonio Brown (on field part only, that may not even be good anymore LOL) or the next typical 6th round selection who hangs on for a couple of years.  Think if we draft a WR late, that guy could easily replace Stevenson as Stevenson replaced Hodgins .  Interesting McKenzie's 40 yard time is listed as 4.42 while Stevenson is 4.45 a tad slower.  Likely not ran a the same point in time, so who know how reliable that is, but he's not heads and shoulders above everyone else to be the fastest WR on the team.

 

Never know, but certainly wouldn't draft him now for my fantasy team.

 

[ColoradoBills]

What I expect from Speedy this year is to stay healthy, work on his skills and put in a great effort in making the team

as a return man and backup WR.  Expecting anything more or less just seems wrong.

Good luck young man.

[strive_for_five_guy]

Khalil Shakir going to make it harder for Stevenson to get those gameday reps.  Could serve as the return guy, with solid YAC and field awareness in college too.

[JerseyBills]

5 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Khalil Shakir going to make it harder for Stevenson to get those gameday reps.  Could serve as the return guy, with solid YAC and field awareness in college too.

I definitely agree. 

I love that we added him and Crowder to create that much more competition in camp and may the best man prevail.  

[Putin]

On 3/31/2022 at 9:28 PM, Logic said:

I HOPE Stevenson and/or Hodgins turn out to be good receivers.

Hope is not a strategy.

Get me a WR by round 4 and I'll be happy.

 

Sorry you get one by round 5 and like it !!! 

[JerseyBills]

2 hours ago, Putin said:

Sorry you get one by round 5 and like it !!! 

Hopefully more. Our #1 was a 5th rounder 

[BillsFanForever19]

3 hours ago, Putin said:

Sorry you get one by round 5 and like it !!! 

 

42 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

Hopefully more. Our #1 was a 5th rounder 

 

Tbh, there wasn't a Wide Receiver taken after Skyy Moore in Round 2 that I'd have selected over Khalil Shakir.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

Tbh, there wasn't a Wide Receiver taken after Skyy Moore in Round 2 that I'd have selected over Khalil Shakir.

Same here.  I gave him a 3rd rd grade but thought he’d go in rd 2 and I wouldn’t have been upset if his name was called.  
 

29 inch arms did him in.  Name a great boundary WR with arms shorter than 30 inches.   🤣 

[BillsFanForever19]

49 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Same here.  I gave him a 3rd rd grade but thought he’d go in rd 2 and I wouldn’t have been upset if his name was called.  
 

29 inch arms did him in.  Name a great boundary WR with arms shorter than 30 inches.   🤣 

 

I legit lol'ed 😃

[LABILLBACKER]

14 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Khalil Shakir going to make it harder for Stevenson to get those gameday reps.  Could serve as the return guy, with solid YAC and field awareness in college too.

Shakir will definitely be replacing Stevenson without much ado.  Stevenson's poor vision and fumbles ruined any chance he might have had.  

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

 

Tbh, there wasn't a Wide Receiver taken after Skyy Moore in Round 2 that I'd have selected over Khalil Shakir.

 

There was one for me - Jalen Tolbert. He was my guy. The Cowboys got an absolute steal there. 

 

I had David Bell graded higher too, although think he is more of a west coast scheme guy than an E-P style receiver so wasn't necessarily a fit for Buffalo. He makes a lot of sense in Cleveland. 

[T master]

I think given the talent already on the roster & then who they brought in this year in the draft i feel it will be hard for him to see the field unless he really makes the second year leap this team has a abundance of talent in the WR room it will be a tall order to make the team out of that room ...

[wppete]

Would be huge if he emerges as a legit threat on the outside. Fingers crossed 🤞. 

[Son of a K-Gun]

Not a great start to OTA's for our breakout star...

 

Quote

 

5. Marquez Stevenson has a few drops

Stevenson is also in a spot where it’s crowded in his position room. He has the advantage of bringing something unique to the table with his long speed down the field. But after a few forgettable games last season as a return man, Stevenson is going to have to look the part to have a shot at the roster. It’s just one practice, but he had a pair of drops on the day. One of them was an extremely catchable ball from Matt Barkley.