Rumor: Bills want to move up in draft, may move a veteran or two to accomplish it

[GunnerBill]

I do think it is time for the Bills to try and build around Allen with high end offensive talent. But equally they shouldn't leave potentially elite defensive talent on the board to force something at receiver. To me the only guy I think has some chance of getting to the Bills that I put in that category is Andrew Booth. If he is there I think they should take him. Otherwise I'd prefer offense. 

 

When I started my draft work in January I said that my three against the field for #25 were Andrew Booth, Chris Olave and Trevor Penning. They are still my guys. At the time I thought maybe Olave might have the best chance of slipping to our pick. Now I think maybe it is Booth.

[Logic]

58 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

This team drafting a CB will make at least one poster's head hurt.  His name is @BillfromNYC 

 

As to McCoach...his inability to understand and build an offensive unit is concerning now into his 6th off-season as a HC.  Because after the last game they played, he's head and shoulders above anyone else at OBD as the weak link.    

Yeah, having the 3rd and 2nd ranked offense in the league the last two years really demonstrates his inability to build an offense.

 

I thought the perfect offensive game against the Pats — something no other team in NFL history has EVER done — was particularly illuminating as to his inability to construct a good offense.

 

Honestly…what planet do some people live on?

Edited April 1, 2022 by Logic

[SCBills]

42 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

I agree, this coaching staff is a little too focused on the DL rotation.  Having said that I don't think there should be an over emphasis to draft a receiver in the first round.   

 

Of the top 10 receivers in the league last year, only 2 of them were first round draft picks, 1 was from 2nd, 4 were from 3rd and 3 from 5th.   I absolutely want to add more young receivers to the team but I think the value there is in the middle rounds.   I'm pretty content with Diggs, Davis, Crowder, McKenzie.  

 

I am not content with those 4 at WR… at all. 
 

We are a pass heavy team, and even with 2 legitimate TE’s, we can’t have our only option at WR2 being a guy who looks the part, but still remains to be seen that he can fully take the reigns and be a high end WR2 for the entire course of a season.  Also, our slot WR’s are a good player with injury issues and a guy who’s never played as the main option out of the slot for more than a couple games. 
 

This team, 100%, needs another high level WR. 
 

If it was my team, I’d go WR, OL, OL in the first three rounds.  I think we owe it to Josh Allen. 
 

If they’re worried about CB, which of course makes sense, put Edmunds on the trade block for a top 90 pick and draft his replacement with it.  Use his money on one of the legit corners still on the market or send our 4th to NYG for Bradberry, given we’d be able to absorb some of his salary. 

[NewEra]

47 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I know this isn’t directed to me, but I’ll respond because I agree with everything you said.  
 

I think we’ve handled this off-season about as well as I could’ve hoped.  
 

Allen Robinson would’ve been fun, and maybe he was the fall back if we didn’t get Von Miller, similar to what the Rams did when they lost Von to us. 
 

I think many of us are just dreading another high pick on defense.   I get it.. CB is a need, but unless we’re trading a vet or two off this defense, we have so much tied up on that side of the ball.   
 

Meanwhile we’ve provided Allen with a solid OL, meh RB’s and (good, potentially great) weaponry in the passing game with Diggs-Davis-Crowder-McKenzie-Knox-Howard as a very promising group of weapons, but are they instilling fear in opposing defenses?  Debatable. They fear 17, and because of 17, all those pieces are much scarier, but can we just give him one high pick as a weapon??  

The AFC is absurd, and we’ve devoted enough on defense to where CB at 25, or via trade-up, shouldn’t be a necessity.  We’ll land a vet before the season starts, we always do.  If they want to go CB in RD2 or RD3, fine.. but it’s becoming comical the level premium pick defensive investment on this team. 
 

 

Well said.  I agree, I hope we draft a Wr with our first pick.  I think there’s a good chance we do just that…..as long as the guys we want are available @25 (and the price of trading up isn’t too steep).  My hopes this offseason was that we could add a super star pass rusher, bolster the IDL, improve the OL and give Josh more playmakers.  It’s April 1 and we’ve literally done all of the above and has months to add more. 
 

I don’t think that the investment on D is comical.  I think it just shows that we’ve made some mistakes in FA and made some bad picks.  McD is a defensive HC and wasn’t happy with where his D was at.  Good, but not good enough….. especially when it counted most. He wants to fix that.  Yes….we’ve invested a lot in the DL….and it failed us because we added the wrong players….not because building a beast DL can’t win Super Bowls.  Other than having great QBs and coaching, having great defensive lines are more important than anything else in football imo.  It’s the one thing that can affect the qb on every snap. 
 

 

 

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

Yeah, having the 3rd and 2nd ranked offense in the league the last two years really demonstrates his inability to build an offense.

 

I thought the perfect offensive game against the Pats — something no other team in NFL history has EVER done — was particularly illuminating as to his inability to construct a good offense.

 

Honestly…what planet do some people live on?

I agree but also see the other side.  Our offense too much Josh Allen.  Everything is on him 24/7.  He doesn’t have enough to lean on.  It will eventually lead to him breaking down/getting injured/potentially shortening his career.  We need to protect him from that.  That’s what people are saying.  I’m sure you agree

[SCBills]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Well said.  I agree, I hope we draft a Wr with our first pick.  I think there’s a good chance we do just that…..as long as the guys we want are available @25 (and the price of trading up isn’t too steep).  My hopes this offseason was that we could add a super star pass rusher, bolster the IDL, improve the OL and give Josh more playmakers.  It’s April 1 and we’ve literally done all of the above and has months to add more. 
 

I don’t think that the investment on D is comical.  I think it just shows that we’ve made some mistakes in FA and made some bad picks.  McD is a defensive HC and wasn’t happy with where his D was at.  Good, but not good enough….. especially when it counted most. He wants to fix that.  Yes….we’ve invested a lot in the DL….and it failed us because we added the wrong players….not because building a beast DL can’t win Super Bowls.  Other than having great QBs and coaching, having great defensive lines are more important than anything else in football imo.  It’s the one thing that can affect the qb on every snap. 
 

 

 

I can’t complain about DL/OL investment.  
 

I mean, I do with the DL draft picks, but I shouldn’t ha. 
 

What gets frustrating is investing so much on the DL (valid) but then also needing to stud safeties, two heavily invested in linebackers, a high end slot corner, oh and we also have to upgrade cornerback.  
 

Meanwhile, we tell Josh to be elite with Diggs and RD3+ Picks. 

 

Credit where it’s due, they’ve hit on guys like Knox and Davis, but a guy like Edmunds and, to a lesser extent, Poyer and Hyde start to feel like luxuries that teams paying their QB 43M can’t really afford - unless, like us, we throw everything on the QB. 
 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by SCBills

[gonzo1105]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I do think it is time for the Bills to try and build around Allen with high end offensive talent. But equally they shouldn't leave potentially elite defensive talent on the board to force something at receiver. To me the only guy I think has some chance of getting to the Bills that I put in that category is Andrew Booth. If he is there I think they should take him. Otherwise I'd prefer offense. 

 

When I started my draft work in January I said that my three against the field for #25 were Andrew Booth, Chris Olave and Trevor Penning. They are still my guys. At the time I thought maybe Olave might have the best chance of slipping to our pick. Now I think maybe it is Booth.

 

None of those 3 imo will be available. I actually dont think the vast majority of the WR's will be there either. I think arguably the best WR on the board if we pick at 25 could be Jahan Dotson. I dont expect Wilson, Olave, London, Williams to be on the board. I suspect Burks wont either. I think your going to see heavy OL/DL in the top 10 followed by a run at WR in the teens to early 20's. 

[Logic]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I agree but also see the other side.  Our offense too much Josh Allen.  Everything is on him 24/7.  He doesn’t have enough to lean on.  It will eventually lead to him breaking down/getting injured/potentially shortening his career.  We need to protect him from that.  That’s what people are saying.  I’m sure you agree

I agree with what you just said, to a degree, yes.

 

I don’t agree with the belittling, overly simplistic, hyperbolic “McCoach can’t build an offense” comment that Vet made.

 

I also don’t agree that there’s been a lack of effort to support Allen or that he lacks weapons in general. 
 

From signing Brown and Beasley and Morse, to trading for Diggs and drafting Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox, Devin Singletary, Zack Moss, and Spencer Brown, to signing Roger Saffold and OJ Howard and Jamison Crowder and re-signing Isaiah McKenzie, there has been a consistent effort to protect Josh and give home weapons. 
 

Those efforts have paid off by allowing the Bills to have a top three offense the past two seasons.

 

So yes, I want the Bills to keep stacking playmakers on offense. I’ve said numerous times this offseason I hope they draft a WR in the first round and another by round 5. But no, I don’t agree with the notion that they don’t know how to build an offense or haven’t put resources into doing so, or that Josh has to do too much because this offense is bereft of playmakers.

 

Also, I believe that no matter WHO they put on offense, Josh will always kind of look like he’s doing it all himself to a degree, because that’s who he is as a player. By the very nature of his will and next level effort, no one on offense is ever going to look like they’re doing as much or trying as hard as Josh Allen. That’s who he is, and that’s why we love him.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Logic

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

None of those 3 imo will be available. I actually dont think the vast majority of the WR's will be there either. I think arguably the best WR on the board if we pick at 25 could be Jahan Dotson. I dont expect Wilson, Olave, London, Williams to be on the board. I suspect Burks wont either. I think your going to see heavy OL/DL in the top 10 followed by a run at WR in the teens to early 20's. 

 

Certainly possible. If Booth, Penning and the top 5 receivers are gone I'd take a punt on Christian Watson personally. 

[SCBills]

20 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

None of those 3 imo will be available. I actually dont think the vast majority of the WR's will be there either. I think arguably the best WR on the board if we pick at 25 could be Jahan Dotson. I dont expect Wilson, Olave, London, Williams to be on the board. I suspect Burks wont either. I think your going to see heavy OL/DL in the top 10 followed by a run at WR in the teens to early 20's. 

Christian Watson would be interesting with his size and speed.   He needs some work, but wouldn’t be relied upon immediately with Diggs and Davis outside.  

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

None of those 3 imo will be available. I actually dont think the vast majority of the WR's will be there either. I think arguably the best WR on the board if we pick at 25 could be Jahan Dotson. I dont expect Wilson, Olave, London, Williams to be on the board. I suspect Burks wont either. I think your going to see heavy OL/DL in the top 10 followed by a run at WR in the teens to early 20's. 

Agreed.  Do you think Dotson is worth 25?  Good speed and maybe the best hands in the draft.  Missing size.  I’ve long thought that he will be our pick at 25 and while I was hoping for one of the other guys, I’d be happy with adding a guy with his skills.  Problem with that pick….are there better players at other positions we’re bypassing to draft him instead?  I do think that we’ll go WR in rd 1 if their guys are available or if the price to trade up is affordable.  
 

While we have a hole at cb2 I expect Beane to sign a vet to a 1 year 2-4M prior to the draft.  That will allow us to bolster the O in rd 1 and 2 while using rd 3 on a guy like Josh Williams or Cam Taylor Britt.  

 

 

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Don’t think anyone is saying they’ve ignored the offense…. To this point they’ve  just prioritized the defensive side of the ball while putting the offense secondary. More top heavy picks on the defense will only support this claim.

 

Disagree with your last paragraph. 

People who say it will always look like Josh is doing everything say that, because it’s all we know.  
 

They just need to look at Mahomes who game in, game out, has about 4 or 5 short passes turn into massive gains. 
 

Or Herbert checking it down to Ekeler for 15-20 yards a pop.  
 

Burrow hitting Chase on a short crosser that goes to the house. 
 

Etc etc etc.. 

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, Logic said:

I agree with what you just said, to a degree, yes.

 

I don’t agree with the belittling, overly simplistic, hyperbolic “McCoach can’t build an offense” comment that Vet made.

 

I also don’t agree that there’s been a lack of effort to support Allen or that he lacks weapons in general. 
 

From signing Brown and Beasley and Morse, to trading for Diggs and drafting Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox, Devin Singletary, Zack Moss, and Spencer Brown, to signing Roger Saffold and OJ Howard and Jamison Crowder and re-signing Isaiah McKenzie, there has been a consistent effort to protect Josh and give home weapons. 
 

Those efforts have paid off by allowing the Bills to have a top three offense the past two seasons.

 

So yes, I want the Bills to keep stacking playmakers on offense. I’ve said numerous times this offseason I hope they draft a WR in the first round and another by round 5. But no, I don’t agree with the notion that they don’t know how to build an offense or haven’t put resources into doing so, or that Josh has to do too much because this offense is bereft of playmakers.

 

Also, I believe that no matter WHO they put on offense, Josh will always kind of look like he’s doing it all himself to a degree, because that’s who he is as a player. By the very nature of his will and next level effort, no one on offense is ever going to look like they’re doing as much or trying as hard as Josh Allen. That’s who he is, and that’s why we love him.

 

 

👍🏻 agreed.  
 

Our offense was very good overall, but  numerous breakdowns in pass protection + our inability to run the ball over the first 3/4 of the year + cover 2 she’ll led to some stagnation.  We usually broke the stumps by pounding josh allen on the ground.  Doing that in the playoffs is expected going forward, but limiting that during the season is a must.  We’re gonna need him for a long time.  

[BADOLBILZ]

49 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I do think it is time for the Bills to try and build around Allen with high end offensive talent. But equally they shouldn't leave potentially elite defensive talent on the board to force something at receiver. To me the only guy I think has some chance of getting to the Bills that I put in that category is Andrew Booth. If he is there I think they should take him. Otherwise I'd prefer offense. 

 

When I started my draft work in January I said that my three against the field for #25 were Andrew Booth, Chris Olave and Trevor Penning. They are still my guys. At the time I thought maybe Olave might have the best chance of slipping to our pick. Now I think maybe it is Booth.

 

 

My concern would be that they aren't totally committed to keeping elite talent around Allen..........that now they think he is good enough that he should be able to elevate everyone around him on the offensive side and that they will always find an excuse to focus premium assets on defense.    Basically the Green Bay treatment.

 

I'd say that the odds favor them being able to get more help at receiver at #25 than at corner.

 

But the question may be who do you think will be the better pro.........Andrew Booth or Chris Olave/Jahan Dotson/Treylon Burks/Christian Watson/George Pickens(basically whoever one thinks is the better WR prospect likely to be there)?  

 

If the answer is definitely Booth then that should be the pick.........but if not and Booth is just prioritized there because of the perception that the defense is just one piece away from being "totally set" then that's probably the wrong way to go about making that decision.     If it's a toss up then I favor the Josh Allen side of the equation........that's the way it should be and it's also the side of the ball that's easier to maintain consistency on.  

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How do you mentally square up the contention that McDermott does not know how to build an offensive unit as a HC, with the fact that the Bills offense ranked 2nd and 3rd on PF the last 2 seasons, after the development of their QB and the steady addition of weapons for him at WR and TE?

 

Also, you mention "after the last game".  Most people seem to believe that the offense played absolutely lights-out in the last 2 games and especially the last game, and that the defense lost us the game.  How do you square that viewpoint (some would call it a fact) with your contention that offense is the problem?

 

Easy...I don't couch my take in regular season rankings that have nothing to do with playoff performance.  All of the people who love to cite Buffalo's "top ranked defense" never can admit that it failed when they needed it most.  Whether that was coaching or individual player, it's up for debate.  

 

Same goes for the offense.  Josh makes a lot of people look better than they actually are (see Divisional Playoff game), and that applies to the HC who has had friction with his 2 OC hires.  

 

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

Same goes for the offense.  Josh makes a lot of people look better than they actually are (see Divisional Playoff game), and that applies to the HC who has had friction with his 2 OC hires.  

 

The same can be said for every great QB - that is why teams so desperately try to find them...

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Christian Watson would be interesting with his size and speed.   He needs some work, but wouldn’t be relied upon immediately with Diggs and Davis outside.  

 

 

A WR in round 1.........nowadays...........I would expect to rely upon them immediately.    They have been coming in hot for a while now and bearing in mind that Gabriel Davis was WR4 in 2020 and put up 600 yards and 7 TD's I would expect plenty of opportunity for a first round rookie WR to make an impact.

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Certainly possible. If Booth, Penning and the top 5 receivers are gone I'd take a punt on Christian Watson personally. 

Man, that seems a little early to me for a guy from that level of competition.  I can see the physical tools are there and I know that he showed well at the Senior Bowl.  I also know that he didn’t have the best QB nor surrounding cast, but he is still a major projection to the NFL level to be considered at the end of round 1.  I know that others are projecting him borderline 1st as well and I also know that there are many precedents for small school guys going in the fist, so maybe I am just being too conservative in this evaluation.  It feels like Watson would be a consolation prize for failing to get Wilson, Olave, Burks, Williamson, etc.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

None of those 3 imo will be available. I actually dont think the vast majority of the WR's will be there either. I think arguably the best WR on the board if we pick at 25 could be Jahan Dotson. I dont expect Wilson, Olave, London, Williams to be on the board. I suspect Burks wont either. I think your going to see heavy OL/DL in the top 10 followed by a run at WR in the teens to early 20's. 

Dotson is intriguing.  I watched a ton of Penn State the last 2 years and while he was often college open due to blazing speed and defensive breakdowns he also made some ridiculous catches.  Like the first one in this video. He has great hands and plays fast but he is undersized for the NFL.

 

 

[SCBills]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

A WR in round 1.........nowadays...........I would expect to rely upon them immediately.    They have been coming in hot for a while now and bearing in mind that Gabriel Davis was WR4 in 2020 and put up 600 yards and 7 TD's I would expect plenty of opportunity for a first round rookie WR to make an impact.

I mean more-so in the sense that our 11/12 personnel would be primarily Diggs/Davis, with a RD1 WR rotating in on the outside.   
 

They’d certainly play, but I wouldn’t expect them to start, unless we took Jameson Williams as he likely becomes our primary slot WR.