Question on PSL's

[Stroke 17]

So anybody familiar with PSL's and how they work. For instance, I have had seasons for 45 years, will pay the PSL fee in 4 years and I will be 70 at that time. Fair enough.

 

I see where it is a one time fee for life, doing the math a younger fan would have many more years as a season ticket holder than us older fans. 

For any familiar with PSL's what happens to my seat/ticket when I die or can't go as I age.

 

I guess it could work for younger fans also' what happens when life changes and season tix are not feasible.

 

[Warcodered]

 

 

said you could sell your license to someone else so I'd imagine you could transfer it to someone else if you wanted to.

[eee1776]

I live in Charlotte, NC where I think this whole mess started. I have friends that either sold there PSL's and made a profit. Or sold theme for even money. PSL's; in my opinion it holds the seat license holder hostage. The only benefit is to the Owners of Football teams, a cheap way to pay them back for building a stadium. Basically, it's the same benefit you have now at High Mark without having to buy a seat for the privilege of buying your game tickets. Wait until you seat the cost of good seats. Watch a panther game, it's all corporate seating.

Anyway, it just my opinion. 

[Mc1320]

Basically, it’s like a stock - you buy the PSL, then the tickets each season.  If you no longer want to hold the PSL, there will be a marketplace run buy the Bills where you can sell the license to someone else.  Depending on the demand, you can either make money or lose money.

 

I live in Baltimore and if you got in on the initial sale of the PSL’s for the Ravens Stadium you would have made a decent return on your PSLs at this point.

[ExiledInIllinois]

47 minutes ago, Mc1320 said:

Basically, it’s like a stock - you buy the PSL, then the tickets each season.  If you no longer want to hold the PSL, there will be a marketplace run buy the Bills where you can sell the license to someone else.  Depending on the demand, you can either make money or lose money.

 

I live in Baltimore and if you got in on the initial sale of the PSL’s for the Ravens Stadium you would have made a decent return on your PSLs at this point.

Like a pyramid scheme. 

[shane nelson]

I live in NJ and have Giants seat to crave my FB addiction.  PSL's are only for Giant games with first dibs on concerts, i assume that all PSL will be the same.  They allowed you 3 years to pay for the PSL, so not a huge check at one time.  I did some research and PSL have been. a decent rate for return, however Metlife is way to big and the Giants suck so there is no aftermarket.  The fact that new stadium is go to be 60,000 is a blessing for PSL owners.  And its Buffalo  

[ProcessTruster]

Guess I need to get to more games in the next 4 years... that's the Bills window anyway.  

Erie County can choke on the 15 event per year, big albatross , after that.     

 

Still not buying that a tiny market like WNY benefits from a $1.4+B stadium ,relative to the cost.   For example, I don't see the NFL banging on Green Bay to build something new.   How is it that Green Bay gets away with it, but WNY needs to cave in to the NFL to the detriment of the average fan, the county and the state? 

[BarleyNY]

Purchase of a PSL allows and obligates the season ticket holder to purchase season tickets every year.  You won’t be able to purchase them without one.  Also won’t be able to decline purchase of your season tickets without selling or losing your PSL.  This last point is an important one.  If the team goes on a bad run and there is low demand for PSLs and season tickets, then the PSL holders would have a tough decision.  The choices would be to: 1) continue to buy season tickets they might not want, 2) sell their PSLs at a loss or 3) if there is no PSL market walk away and allow their PSLs to revert back to the team.  In the last instance the team could sell those seats as single game tickets until demand picked back up.  At that time the team could resell the PSLs and pocket that money.

[atlbillsfan1975]

6 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Like a pyramid scheme. 

How?

[Heavy Kevi]

6 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

Like a pyramid scheme. 

 

Not really.

 

Pyramid schemes require constant "growth" of the lower levels of the pyramid, and the money flows upward from any new recruits. It fails when (undoubtedly) it runs out of "victims" with new money to pour in.

 

This is supply and demand. There is a fixed number of seats (static supply), and over the years as demand ebbs and flows, the psl can gain or lose value. Not a true "supply and demand" where manufacturers (or opec) can manipulate pricing with supply, but really not anything like a pyramid scheme.

[BobbyC81]

6 hours ago, Mc1320 said:

Basically, it’s like a stock - you buy the PSL, then the tickets each season.  If you no longer want to hold the PSL, there will be a marketplace run buy the Bills where you can sell the license to someone else.  Depending on the demand, you can either make money or lose money.

 

I live in Baltimore and if you got in on the initial sale of the PSL’s for the Ravens Stadium you would have made a decent return on your PSLs at this point.

How about this one?  When the Raiders moved back to Oakland, the agreement was for major renovations to the stadium.  PSLs were sold to pay for them.  Then a couple years ago, they said bye-bye.  Did the people get their money back or given opportunity to continue in Vegas?

[billsfanmiamioh]

13 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Guess I need to get to more games in the next 4 years... that's the Bills window anyway.  

Erie County can choke on the 15 event per year, big albatross , after that.     

 

Still not buying that a tiny market like WNY benefits from a $1.4+B stadium ,relative to the cost.   For example, I don't see the NFL banging on Green Bay to build something new.   How is it that Green Bay gets away with it, but WNY needs to cave in to the NFL to the detriment of the average fan, the county and the state? 

Because Green Bay did a major renovation of their stadium 

[Mr Info]

There is a current PSL with my club seats. I do not recall the % of the ticket for the PSL but it is bundled in the total price I pay.
Unsure if this is the way it will continue to work for the new stadium. 

[ProcessTruster]

22 minutes ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

Because Green Bay did a major renovation of their stadium 

great.  let's do that and skip the PSLs and the burden on the community, who will get very little use out of a new stadium, or the current one for that matter

 

this ain't LA.  Buffalo is not getting an outdoor Super Bowl in February.  An outdoor stadium will be useless 8 months out of the year. 

 

 It all seems negative to me.  Not seeing any positives out of this.   

[stuvian]

The real reason why the NFL won't allow any more teams to operate under the Green Bay model is that as a community owned team, the Packers have to publish their financial details.

 

The NFL doesn't want that level of transparency and is more secretive than the CIA.

 

Take the city of St. Louis' lawsuit against the league for the Rams relocation. The settlement called for disclosure of finances to back up its claims. Instead the NFL just opted to stroke a cheque for over 700 million. 

 

You can still be a season ticket holder without a PSL in some markets albeit in the 300s. If you want to remain a season ticket holder and refuse to hand billionaires your hard earned money, ask your ticket rep about available season ticket seats without a PSL.

[NoSaint]

53 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

Purchase of a PSL allows and obligates the season ticket holder to purchase season tickets every year.  You won’t be able to purchase them without one.  Also won’t be able to decline purchase of your season tickets without selling or losing your PSL.  This last point is an important one.  If the team goes on a bad run and there is low demand for PSLs and season tickets, then the PSL holders would have a tough decision.  The choices would be to: 1) continue to buy season tickets they might not want, 2) sell their PSLs at a loss or 3) if there is no PSL market walk away and allow their PSLs to revert back to the team.  In the last instance the team could sell those seats as single game tickets until demand picked back up.  At that time the team could resell the PSLs and pocket that money.

yes, you should only buy a PSL if you are in for good or bad. It is not for fair weather fans.

[BarleyNY]

20 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

yes, you should only buy a PSL if you are in for good or bad. It is not for fair weather fans.

I agree.  But people should also consider the possibility of having to move for work, moving for retirement, possible financial changes, etc.  what’re the odds of life getting in the way 5 or 10 years from now and how big of a financial impact would something like this be?

 

obviously everybody can make their own financial decisions, but it is easy for people to get caught up in the moment of something like this.  

Edited March 29, 2022 by BarleyNY

[vincec]

PSLs are just another way for the super rich to skim money off everyone else. There is zero benefit to fans. They pay more, with new restrictions, for the same thing they’ve been getting up to now. This is so that the owners pay even less for a stadium that benefits them financially almost exclusively.

 

But as has been said, it’s supply and demand. If you want the supply, then you need to bend over.

[GottaRun]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

great.  let's do that and skip the PSLs and the burden on the community

That train has sailed.

[corta765]

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

Still not buying that a tiny market like WNY benefits from a $1.4+B stadium ,relative to the cost.   For example, I don't see the NFL banging on Green Bay to build something new.   How is it that Green Bay gets away with it, but WNY needs to cave in to the NFL to the detriment of the average fan, the county and the state? 

 

I swear to god some of you live under a rock and pay zero attention to anything. Few things:

 

-The Packers are owned by the community something the NFL and owners loath which is why it will never happen again. Because of that they can do as they please for fans in a far more friendly way then any other market

-Lambeau went through $415 million in renovations per 2020 cost

-The Packers have invested $65 million in the title town project next door with more funds coming

-If you have seen Lambeau since the renovations its absolutely gorgeous and they did a superb job. They didn't settle for "the average fan", its a football palace and great for fans of all types

-The Ralph was forever limited in expansion/renovation because it was built 30 ft under the surface. To expand the concourse properly would force the Bills out of the stadium for years with a renovation and unless you want to go to UB or Cuse or Penn State then new was the way to go

-The upper deck has a legit safety timeframe before it has major structural issues and by opening the stadium in 2026 they beat the cost of that fix by barely a year assuming nothing structurally faults before then.

-The stadium itself is a nightmare for primetime games to setup something that is brought up regularly and was part of the reason why during the drought years our primetime exposure was so limited regardless of team play

-The stadiums construction also creates an awful wind effect as shown during the Pats game because of how they built. Just by simply moving the stadium 90 degrees in itself will help fans. The fact they plan on enclosing it similar to Tottenhams soccer stadium should create a far better fan atmosphere in terms of wind and comfort. The Ralph has amazing sightlines.. other then that fan wise it gets rough at points when the weather is poor.

-The cost to actually renovate the Ralph is about a billion dollars. Regardless of my feelings on public money in the equation, if you are going to spend a billion you might as well do it properly with a brand new stadium that has the bells and whistles, not just fan wise, but in terms of actual construction and technology so the stadium itself is far more sound

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by corta765