boater Posted March 26, 2023 Posted March 26, 2023 Buffalo can't have anything nice. Why should they be punching well above their weight for an NFL team. As someone said up-thread: I will believe it when I see the heavy excavating equipment at One Bills Drive.
mrags Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 On 3/25/2023 at 11:16 AM, PBF81 said: LOL at your first sentence. It really is. Agree on the rest, and being skepical to begin with, it's enough to make one wonder whether it's actually going to go down. One thing after another, what we're being told and have been told hasn't lined up, we presently have no lease to play in just four months, and some engineering site with info about the project states that work would begin mid-year. Someone here facetiously made a statement about the last "meeting" and approvals of the approvals etc. LOL I'll believe it when I see the heavy excavating equipment doing it's work. I'm sure that someone living around there will post pics once that happens. And where's Pegula on all of this? Sure, we all get it, Kim's in a bad way and that comes first, but it does make one wonder what's going through his mind, particularly since Kim/family does come first. When's the last time he said anything publicly about any of this, what, a year ago? I'm not one of those people that believes that if he were ever to sell the team that it would be bought by someone that would keep it in WNY, I don't care what anyone says about "clauses" and the like. NYS politics ... LOL Yeah. The “clauses” are Meaningless to the people that would be buying the team. The chances are the next NFL team sells for at least 3B if not more. So I’d imagine in 5 years time, 10 years time, whatever it is, it won’t matter. The super ultra rich are the people buying teams now. You’re Jeff Bezos’ of the world. They would easily fork out 5B for a team and throw in an other 1-2B on top of it if needed to move them. And chances are they wouldn’t have to spend any money on a new stadium but cause somewhere like Austin or somewhere else would gladly pony up for a new NFL stadium/team. 1 hour ago, boater said: Buffalo can't have anything nice. Why should they be punching well above their weight for an NFL team. As someone said up-thread: I will believe it when I see the heavy excavating equipment at One Bills Drive. We don’t belong in the conversation. The rest of the league owners probably hate that Buffalo is in the league. They are likely pissed at themselves for not finding someone sooner to buy the team and move then when we hadn’t won anything in 15+ years after Ralph died. 1 1
Buffalo716 Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, mrags said: Yeah. The “clauses” are Meaningless to the people that would be buying the team. The chances are the next NFL team sells for at least 3B if not more. So I’d imagine in 5 years time, 10 years time, whatever it is, it won’t matter. The super ultra rich are the people buying teams now. You’re Jeff Bezos’ of the world. They would easily fork out 5B for a team and throw in an other 1-2B on top of it if needed to move them. And chances are they wouldn’t have to spend any money on a new stadium but cause somewhere like Austin or somewhere else would gladly pony up for a new NFL stadium/team. We don’t belong in the conversation. The rest of the league owners probably hate that Buffalo is in the league. They are likely pissed at themselves for not finding someone sooner to buy the team and move then when we hadn’t won anything in 15+ years after Ralph died. That’s literally all opinion Not every single professional sports team needs to be in a massive Metropolis like New York City or Austin Texas People act like the bills are in Fargo North Dakota Buffalo is the second largest city in the state of New York and a massive shipping and trading hub on the Canadian border People act like there’s 95,000 people in the area lol its a historic franchise in a small passionate market … There’s a market for that In the nfl Edited March 27, 2023 by Buffalo716 2 3
PBF81 Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: That’s literally all made up BS Not every single professional sports team needs to be in a massive Metropolis like New York City or Austin Texas People act like the bills are in Fargo North Dakota Buffalo is the second largest city in the state of New York and a massive shipping and trading hub on the Canadian border People act like there’s 95,000 people in the area lol its a historic franchise in a small passionate market … There’s a market for that In the nfl Not to burst your bubble, but given that Green Bay draws from Milwaukee, Buffalo has by a country mile the worst financial market/base of any NFL team. That's what you need to look at and consider. It's also a diminishing market. As I've pointed out numerous times, if Buffalo didn't already have a team, no owner looking to relocate would even consider Buffalo, and we'd have zero chance of getting an expansion team if even one were offered. We wouldn't even make the short-list for consideration. We're lucky to have a team still. The one wild-card is TV revenues. The financial model for the NFL has changed over the past many years and TV revenues are driving things more than anything. To your last point. I don't know how all that works. There are some complicated things in the NFL's revenue sharing model, and now with streaming it's changing the game there, no pun intended. Let's see, hopefully those of us expressing concerns are doing so for nothing.
Buffalo716 Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, PBF81 said: Not to burst your bubble, but given that Green Bay draws from Milwaukee, Buffalo has by a country mile the worst financial market/base of any NFL team. That's what you need to look at and consider. It's also a diminishing market. As I've pointed out numerous times, if Buffalo didn't already have a team, no owner looking to relocate would even consider Buffalo, and we'd have zero chance of getting an expansion team if even one were offered. We wouldn't even make the short-list for consideration. We're lucky to have a team still. The one wild-card is TV revenues. The financial model for the NFL has changed over the past many years and TV revenues are driving things more than anything. To your last point. I don't know how all that works. There are some complicated things in the NFL's revenue sharing model, and now with streaming it's changing the game there, no pun intended. Let's see, hopefully those of us expressing concerns are doing so for nothing. If you’re gonna say Green Bay draws from Milwaukee Well then Buffalo draws from Toronto which is closer market And Buffalo is an original AFL franchise Edited March 27, 2023 by Buffalo716 1
mrags Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 1 hour ago, PBF81 said: Not to burst your bubble, but given that Green Bay draws from Milwaukee, Buffalo has by a country mile the worst financial market/base of any NFL team. That's what you need to look at and consider. It's also a diminishing market. As I've pointed out numerous times, if Buffalo didn't already have a team, no owner looking to relocate would even consider Buffalo, and we'd have zero chance of getting an expansion team if even one were offered. We wouldn't even make the short-list for consideration. We're lucky to have a team still. The one wild-card is TV revenues. The financial model for the NFL has changed over the past many years and TV revenues are driving things more than anything. To your last point. I don't know how all that works. There are some complicated things in the NFL's revenue sharing model, and now with streaming it's changing the game there, no pun intended. Let's see, hopefully those of us expressing concerns are doing so for nothing. 100% in this and anyone that thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. in 1960 Buffalo had a population that was over 500k. It was the 20th largest city in the US. That’s ahead of places like: Atlanta Miami San Jose Oakland Phoenix Tampa Indianapolis Denver Kansas City Minneapolis Austin Nashville now…. Buffalo ranks 78th in the list with a population of 278k. Behind places like: Anchorage Tulsa Wichita Lincoln Durham Plano Chandler Chula Vista As a city we’ve done nothing but dwindle away. the exports from Buffalo have long been gone. We are now a city of customer service and hospitality. Serving those few people that do actually have decent jobs. “Buffalo and the surrounding area were long involved in railroad commerce, steel manufacture, automobile production, aircraft/aerospace design and production, Great Lakes shipping and grain storage. Most of these industries have left the city through the years. Major steel production no longer exists in the area, although several smaller steel mills remains in operation. As of the 1950 United States Census, Buffalo was the 15th largest city in the country, the nation's largest inland port (12th overall), second biggest rail center, sixth largest steel producer, and eighth largest manufacturer.” “The loss of traditional jobs in manufacturing, rapid suburbanization and high costs of labor have led to economic decline, making Buffalo one of the poorest among U.S. cities with populations of more than 250,000 people. An estimated 28.7–29.9% of Buffalo residents live below the poverty line, behind either only Detroit,[29] or only Detroit and Cleveland.[30][31]Buffalo's median household income of $27,850 is third-lowest among large cities, behind only Miami and Cleveland; however the median household income for the metropolitan area is $57,000.” “Buffalo faces issues with vacant and abandoned houses, as the city ranks second to St. Louis on the list of American cities with the most vacant properties per capita.” “A major culprit in Buffalo’s collapse was a shift in transportation technology, reducing the importance of the Erie Canal and of the cities that arose to take advantage of it. In the 1830s, you would have been mad to set up a manufacturing firm in New York State that didn’t have access to the canal or some other waterway. Starting in the 1910s, though, trucks made it easy to deliver products and get deliveries—all you needed was a nearby highway. Rail became more efficient: the real cost of transporting a ton one mile by rail has fallen 90 percent since 1900. Then the Saint Lawrence Seaway opened in 1957, connecting the Great Lakes to the Atlantic and allowing grain shipments to bypass Buffalo altogether. These shocks didn’t just hit the New York canal cities; every city on the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River, its water-based advantages eroded, lost industries to areas with cheaper labor costs. Other trends compounded Buffalo’s woes. Improvements in electricity transmission made companies’ proximity to Niagara Falls increasingly irrelevant. Mechanization meant that the industry that did remain in the city needed fewer bodies. The appeal of the automobile induced many to leave the older center cities for the suburbs, where property was plentiful and cheaper, or to abandon the area altogether for cities like Los Angeles, built around the car. And Buffalo’s dismal weather didn’t help. January temperatures are one of the best predictors of urban success over the last half-century, with colder climes losing out—and Buffalo isn’t just cold during the winter: blizzards regularly shut the city down completely. The invention of air conditioners and certain public health advances made warmer states even more alluring“ “Buffalo wasn’t a particularly skilled city in 1970, and it isn’t one now. Fewer than 19 percent of the city’s adults boast a college degree; the number in Manhattan is 57.5 percent. Whereas New York always had some industries, such as finance, that required brainpower, Buffalo’s industries were invariably brawn-based. Buffalo wasn’t a university town like Boston, and it didn’t have Minneapolis’s Scandinavian passion for good lower education. It had the right skill mix for making steel or flour, not for flourishing in the information age.” https://www.city-journal.org/html/can-buffalo-ever-come-back-13050.html 2 2
PBF81 Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: If you’re gonna say Green Bay draws from Milwaukee Well then Buffalo draws from Toronto which is closer market And Buffalo is an original AFL franchise Not even close in impact. Neither does Canada's financial base factor in. Edited March 27, 2023 by PBF81 1
Just Jack Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 13 hours ago, mrags said: We don’t belong in the conversation. The rest of the league owners probably hate that Buffalo is in the league. They are likely pissed at themselves for not finding someone sooner to buy the team and move then when we hadn’t won anything in 15+ years after Ralph died. 9 years according to my FB memories this past weekend. Just seems like longer.
mrags Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 11 minutes ago, Just Jack said: 9 years according to my FB memories this past weekend. Just seems like longer. Before, during and after. He was alive for a bunch of it and it continued for years after as well. Still, even though we made the playoffs in 99’ that was kinda of a joke then too. False hope from a midget QB that couldn’t see past his centers hips. 1 1
SoMAn Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: That’s literally all opinion Not every single professional sports team needs to be in a massive Metropolis like New York City or Austin Texas People act like the bills are in Fargo North Dakota Buffalo is the second largest city in the state of New York and a massive shipping and trading hub on the Canadian border People act like there’s 95,000 people in the area lol its a historic franchise in a small passionate market … There’s a market for that In the nfl Yes, but in the end it’s all about $$ with the NFL. The days of young scamps named butch sporting newsboy caps peeping through knotholes to watch for free are over. The era of the an average blue collar family of 4 going to multiple games is largely a thing of the past when a day at the stadium could eat up a good chunk of that weekly paycheck. It’s now geared towards the white collar upper class. WNY could be the greatest market for fan support and still fall closer to the bottom of generated revenue when competing against teams in Dallas, L.A., Vegas, etc. The Bills should remain in Buffalo for some time, but at some point one of those mega billionaires will want in and money talks. Pegulas will listen.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) New renderings updated today https://www.buffalobills.com/news/stadium-news Yeesh, these arent great. So much neon. Way too busy. The exterior shots are cool tho. Edited March 27, 2023 by DrDawkinstein 1
Buffalo716 Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, SoMAn said: Yes, but in the end it’s all about $$ with the NFL. The days of young scamps named butch sporting newsboy caps peeping through knotholes to watch for free are over. The era of the an average blue collar family of 4 going to multiple games is largely a thing of the past when a day at the stadium could eat up a good chunk of that weekly paycheck. It’s now geared towards the white collar upper class. WNY could be the greatest market for fan support and still fall closer to the bottom of generated revenue when competing against teams in Dallas, L.A., Vegas, etc. The Bills should remain in Buffalo for some time, but at some point one of those mega billionaires will want in and money talks. Pegulas will listen. That’s the way people’s brains think everything works There is a market for places like Green Bay buffalo and Cleveland in the NFL Again it does not all need to be New York City Los Angeles Chicago Dallas In an NFL league with 32 teams or 54 there is absolutely a market for the Buffalo Bills Unequivocally without a doubt And I know dozens of season-ticket holders and none of them are upper class white collar 12 hours ago, PBF81 said: Not even close in impact. Neither does Canada's financial base factor in. Like 15% of our season-ticket holders are from Toronto Milwaukee does not pay County taxes for lambau… It’s in a different county So I don’t see where you say they’re drawing money from them Unless it’s from customers… Because the county doesn’t give the Packers anything in Milwaukee… Besides playing games there over the years and customers Last time I checked we played in Toronto too… And 15% of season-ticket holders are from Toronto And we’re drawing from Rochester as well If Milwaukee residence buying Packers tickets counts… Toronto residence buying Bill season tickets count Because they’re buying 15-20 % of season tickets Edited March 27, 2023 by Buffalo716
PBF81 Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 45 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: That’s the way people’s brains think everything works There is a market for places like Green Bay buffalo and Cleveland in the NFL Again it does not all need to be New York City Los Angeles Chicago Dallas In an NFL league with 32 teams or 54 there is absolutely a market for the Buffalo Bills Unequivocally without a doubt And I know dozens of season-ticket holders and none of them are upper class white collar Like 15% of our season-ticket holders are from Toronto Milwaukee does not pay County taxes for lambau… It’s in a different county So I don’t see where you say they’re drawing money from them Unless it’s from customers… Because the county doesn’t give the Packers anything in Milwaukee… Besides playing games there over the years and customers Last time I checked we played in Toronto too… And 15% of season-ticket holders are from Toronto And we’re drawing from Rochester as well If Milwaukee residence buying Packers tickets counts… Toronto residence buying Bill season tickets count Because they’re buying 15-20 % of season tickets It's not about STHs, that part of it anyway. Not sure how you picked that up.
corta765 Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 20 hours ago, mrags said: The rest of the league owners probably hate that Buffalo is in the league. They are likely pissed at themselves for not finding someone sooner to buy the team and move then when we hadn’t won anything in 15+ years after Ralph died. It wasn't a mistake that the Bills signed the Toronto deal back in 08' for games nor Rogers interest. I have always believed had those games been better attendance wise and Ralph passed earlier + Rogers himself not passed as quick that was the destination. The whole St Louis -> LA thing was crap and the NFL showed where its loyalty lies. The NFL rules state that if a city is willing to support a team with a new stadium and is working in good faith the team is supposed to stay in the area until otherwise. The Rams got out on a BS clause which they now are paying for and back St Louis while the NFL showed by not keeping the team there market loyalty really means nothing. St Louis straight up said will give you a new stadium no qualms and they said no. I understand part of it was getting the new LA stadium and such, but it jaded me as a fan that it could be such callous thing as any hope for smaller markets that the NFL gave one ounce of a crap about where they played went out. BUF-GB-PIT are basically tolerated for their "history" and "uniqueness" to the game with their markets. Reality is they could put those three teams in Toronto, Mexico City, & Vancouver (or London) and make way more. 1 2
Buffalo716 Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 12 minutes ago, PBF81 said: It's not about STHs, that part of it anyway. Not sure how you picked that up. I’m saying the Buffalo Niagara metropolitan region is vastly big enough to support the bills
RiotAct Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: Sorry if this was previously posted: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/new-bills-stadium-price-tag-rises-now-estimated-at-1-54-billion/article_8643028a-cccf-11ed-983b-0b744acced2b.html?spot_im_redirect_source=pitc 4 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: Sorry if this was previously posted: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/new-bills-stadium-price-tag-rises-now-estimated-at-1-54-billion/article_8643028a-cccf-11ed-983b-0b744acced2b.html?spot_im_redirect_source=pitc lulz.
Gregg Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 Per Forbes the Bills are #29 in value at 3.4 billion. The new stadium does make a difference. Didn't the Pegula's buy them for 1.4 billion.
Augie Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 13 minutes ago, Gregg said: Per Forbes the Bills are #29 in value at 3.4 billion. The new stadium does make a difference. Didn't the Pegula's buy them for 1.4 billion. Terry was told he couldn’t make money buying at $1.4B, but it looks like he’s a couple BILLION ahead already. Not too shabby. 1
SoMAn Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 27 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said: Sorry if this was previously posted: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/new-bills-stadium-price-tag-rises-now-estimated-at-1-54-billion/article_8643028a-cccf-11ed-983b-0b744acced2b.html?spot_im_redirect_source=pitc I predicted this in a post a couple of days ago along with the belief escalating costs from inflation could delay or cease the construction. 1
Buffalo Super Fan Posted March 27, 2023 Posted March 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, SoMAn said: I predicted this in a post a couple of days ago along with the belief escalating costs from inflation could delay or cease the construction. Don’t worry the Buffalo Bills and New York State building that stadium regardless of the cost it will be built. I BSF guarantee it because it’s poorly designed cheaply so it will be the new Rich Stadium built on the cheap. “Trust the processes” of terrible big Buffalo projects we are the World Champions of bad big projects so it will happen it’s destiny for Buffalo. Just turn up the music Buffalo got the spirit talking proud, talking proud play that don’t think the Buffalo Bills and New York State don’t want Buffalo fans to think. I know BSF go to bed your old in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 36 minutes ago, Augie said: Terry was told he couldn’t make money buying at $1.4B, but it looks like he’s a couple BILLION ahead already. Not too shabby. You would think Terry Pegula would be able to afford to renovate his own stadium and arena? PSE has no excuses win a championship I don’t want to hear excuses from that cheap bum in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 1 1
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