New "ironclad" Stadium deal reached

[LeGOATski]

16 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

I don’t really know what the question here is. No, the new stadium is just going to be a football stadium that will host some high school championships and a few concerts a year. So what.

 

if they built a covered stadium in downtown Buffalo for $2B+, plus got another $2B+ for necessary infrastructure improvements to put it down there, it would still be a football stadium that hosts some high school championships and a few concerts a year.

Yeah, the point is to build a football stadium to play football in. This is useless for some people, I guess.

[JoPoy88]

8 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, the point is to build a football stadium to play football in. This is useless for some people, I guess.

apparently so. Makes no sense to me. Atlanta as a city didn’t improve because they got rid of the Georgia Dome and built a new stadium that looks like a giant metal anus from the sky. And since that was built, still no one cares about the Falcons. And Atlanta is still Atlanta, which Buffalo will never be. It made zero impact on the team popularity or the city as a whole. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by JoPoy88

[mrags]

8 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

apparently so. Makes no sense to me. Atlanta as a city didn’t improve because they got rid of the Georgia Dome and built a new stadium that looks like a giant metal anus from the sky. And since that was built, still no one cares about the Falcons. And Atlanta is still Atlanta, which Buffalo will never be. It made zero impact on the team popularity or the city as a whole. 

The difference is, Atlanta already had a stadium in that location. You got rid of one for another one. The Bills play in no where Orchard Park. Not downtown Buffalo. A city in need of something. A city that is currently growing in some aspects. But at the same time losing population. Creating a stadium downtown with not just the stadium but other attractions like bars, restaurants, a hotel maybe, some shopping maybe. Creating a corridor of things to do in that area would have only been good for the area. Instead you’re building another stadium in the same spot, in the middle of nowhere OP. That’s why there’s no benefits moving forward. They aren’t going to build new hotels in OP, and likely the 5 bars and restaurants in the immediate area will continue to be there and continue to be as small minded as they’ve been for the last 40+ years. 

[brianthomas]

11 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Yeah, the point is to build a football stadium to play football in. This is useless for some people, I guess.

Not useless but narrow in its focus or in its vision. Banks are collapsing, taxpayer dollars are a valuable commodity.

It'd be nice to try to maximize that investment & benefit to the community at large & not just to a franchise.

Sure we as fans can say we benefit because the team is here, maybe a handful of bars along the way do too. But financially we're the customers buying their BILLS product. So we're using tax payer dollars just for the right to be customers. I think its fair that some people have an opinion on where their money goes & i think many would just have preferred we set the bar a little higher with our plan if we were going to spend this much.

 

For the cost & after decades of debating alternate stadium locations & their potential impacts to our region, in the end we went with a smaller version of the same thing right next to the old one. Maybe some people just dont understand or care but it just seems like a failure of imagination & a colossal missed opportunity for an area lacking much of either.

It just makes sense you dont spend close to $2 billion on a building you only use 10 times a year... in an area thats not known for its great economy. I mean that makes sense right? I think for many thats what it comes down to.

[brianthomas]

5 hours ago, mrags said:

The difference is, Atlanta already had a stadium in that location. You got rid of one for another one. The Bills play in no where Orchard Park. Not downtown Buffalo. A city in need of something. A city that is currently growing in some aspects. But at the same time losing population. Creating a stadium downtown with not just the stadium but other attractions like bars, restaurants, a hotel maybe, some shopping maybe. Creating a corridor of things to do in that area would have only been good for the area. Instead you’re building another stadium in the same spot, in the middle of nowhere OP. That’s why there’s no benefits moving forward. They aren’t going to build new hotels in OP, and likely the 5 bars and restaurants in the immediate area will continue to be there and continue to be as small minded as they’ve been for the last 40+ years. 

I know here in Buffalo for decades i've heard of the need for a new & larger convention center & the economic boon to the city we'd get if larger conventions could be held here. I'm no engineer or developmental planner but integrating the 2 concepts together could've been a wonderful opportunity. Isn't that what they did with the AT&T Stadium in Dallas? They use it to bring in big events during the off-season which in-turn brings in millions in revenue each year? Not just to the stadium itself, but to all the local hotels & businesses now booked due to the influx of visitors? What a great idea or concept! Wish we would've thought of it.

Its just 1 example of the contrast between smart forward thinking planning & whatever we had.

[Buffalo716]

15 minutes ago, brianthomas said:

Not useless but narrow in its focus or in its vision. Banks are collapsing, taxpayer dollars are a valuable commodity.

It'd be nice to try to maximize that investment & benefit to the community at large & not just to a franchise.

Sure we as fans can say we benefit because the team is here, maybe a handful of bars along the way do too. But financially we're the customers buying their BILLS product. So we're using tax payer dollars just for the right to be customers. I think its fair that some people have an opinion on where their money goes & i think many would just have preferred we set the bar a little higher with our plan if we were going to spend this much.

 

For the cost & after decades of debating alternate stadium locations & their potential impacts to our region, in the end we went with a smaller version of the same thing right next to the old one. Maybe some people just dont understand or care but it just seems like a failure of imagination & a colossal missed opportunity for an area lacking much of either.

It just makes sense you dont spend close to $2 billion on a building you only use 10 times a year... in an area thats not known for its great economy. I mean that makes sense right? I think for many thats what it comes down to.

Every single stadium study ever done has shown a football stadium does not do much for a local economy

 

The study the bills did, Said the stadium will bring in as much money as a new target

 

Would a new target in Orchard Park change the scope of Western New York? No

Edited March 18, 2023 by Buffalo716

[mrags]

18 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Every single stadium study ever done has shown a football stadium does not do much for a local economy

 

The study the bills did, Said the stadium will bring in as much money as a new target

 

Would a new target in Orchard Park change the scope of Western New York? No

The point is, that all studies show building new stadiums where stadiums already exist. The point is we’re talking about building a stadium in an area where there is not one now. It would absolutely create jobs, opportunities, businesses, restaurants, hotels, additional future opportunities as well. Where as a new stadium right where the old one was that has a lit 6 bars and restaurants around it does absolutely nothing for the area. 
 

for the purpose of getting a new stadium, and keeping the team here, we have the right idea. For the betterment of the area, this stadium does nothing. 

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, brianthomas said:

Not useless but narrow in its focus or in its vision. Banks are collapsing, taxpayer dollars are a valuable commodity.

It'd be nice to try to maximize that investment & benefit to the community at large & not just to a franchise.

Sure we as fans can say we benefit because the team is here, maybe a handful of bars along the way do too. But financially we're the customers buying their BILLS product. So we're using tax payer dollars just for the right to be customers. I think its fair that some people have an opinion on where their money goes & i think many would just have preferred we set the bar a little higher with our plan if we were going to spend this much.

 

For the cost & after decades of debating alternate stadium locations & their potential impacts to our region, in the end we went with a smaller version of the same thing right next to the old one. Maybe some people just dont understand or care but it just seems like a failure of imagination & a colossal missed opportunity for an area lacking much of either.

It just makes sense you dont spend close to $2 billion on a building you only use 10 times a year... in an area thats not known for its great economy. I mean that makes sense right? I think for many thats what it comes down to.

They're actually doing the most fiscally responsible thing. The Pegulas saved western NY politicians from themselves because paying triple the amount for a downtown domed stadium would do nothing for the economy and at the same time would ruin the football experience that Bills fans love.

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, mrags said:

The point is, that all studies show building new stadiums where stadiums already exist. The point is we’re talking about building a stadium in an area where there is not one now. It would absolutely create jobs, opportunities, businesses, restaurants, hotels, additional future opportunities as well. Where as a new stadium right where the old one was that has a lit 6 bars and restaurants around it does absolutely nothing for the area. 
 

for the purpose of getting a new stadium, and keeping the team here, we have the right idea. For the betterment of the area, this stadium does nothing. 

You have it backwards. There needs to be opportunity there BEFORE a stadium is built. If there was opportunity there, other businesses would already be investing in the area. There would already be people in the area. It's not an if-you-build-it-they-will-come scenario. A new football stadium wouldn't suddenly attract people back to the region.

 

Instead of a big expensive building barely being used out in the suburbs, you'd have an even bigger, more expensive building barely being used downtown. Oh, and on top of that, the football/tailgating experience would suck now too.

 

Some people think "drop a stadium downtown and now Buffalo will be like Nashville!" and that is just wishful thinking.

 

Nashville was Nashville first. LA was LA first. Atlanta was Atlanta first. The Twin Cities was the Twin Cities first. These places were not built by NFL stadiums. As such, Buffalo will not be built by an NFL stadium. 

[mrags]

35 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

You have it backwards. There needs to be opportunity there BEFORE a stadium is built. If there was opportunity there, other businesses would already be investing in the area. There would already be people in the area. It's not an if-you-build-it-they-will-come scenario. A new football stadium wouldn't suddenly attract people back to the region.

 

Instead of a big expensive building barely being used out in the suburbs, you'd have an even bigger, more expensive building barely being used downtown. Oh, and on top of that, the football/tailgating experience would suck now too.

 

Some people think "drop a stadium downtown and now Buffalo will be like Nashville!" and that is just wishful thinking.

 

Nashville was Nashville first. LA was LA first. Atlanta was Atlanta first. The Twin Cities was the Twin Cities first. These places were not built by NFL stadiums. As such, Buffalo will not be built by an NFL stadium. 

Are you from the area? Have you not noticed all the things that have been going on downtown in the last few years? Canalsode, all the breweries, restaurants, bars, etc. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

They're actually doing the most fiscally responsible thing. The Pegulas saved western NY politicians from themselves because paying triple the amount for a downtown domed stadium would do nothing for the economy and at the same time would ruin the football experience that Bills fans love.

 

That's just flat out not true. The extra money spent on infrastructure is needed anyway. It would be a way to get the state to invest in Buffalo rather than downstate for once.

 

Oh well, I'll probably never go back after this past Christmas' storm. Making my family come to me from now on.

[JoPoy88]

19 minutes ago, mrags said:

Are you from the area? Have you not noticed all the things that have been going on downtown in the last few years? Canalsode, all the breweries, restaurants, bars, etc. 

 

And a football stadium that’s used a dozen times a year down there is that much more additive to these current developments? No, it’s not. And hordes of suburbanites are not going to trek into downtown to eat on a random Thursday just because they can see the stadium from the window.

[mrags]

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

 

And a football stadium that’s used a dozen times a year down there is that much more additive to these current developments? No, it’s not. And hordes of suburbanites are not going to trek into downtown to eat on a random Thursday just because they can see the stadium from the window.

The point is, if the stadium was built downtown there would be plenty of other businesses and hotels popping up in an area that is already up and coming vs a suburban area that will not, nor will it ever progress. 

[billsfanmiamioh]

12 hours ago, mrags said:

The difference is, Atlanta already had a stadium in that location. You got rid of one for another one. The Bills play in no where Orchard Park. Not downtown Buffalo. A city in need of something. A city that is currently growing in some aspects. But at the same time losing population. Creating a stadium downtown with not just the stadium but other attractions like bars, restaurants, a hotel maybe, some shopping maybe. Creating a corridor of things to do in that area would have only been good for the area. Instead you’re building another stadium in the same spot, in the middle of nowhere OP. That’s why there’s no benefits moving forward. They aren’t going to build new hotels in OP, and likely the 5 bars and restaurants in the immediate area will continue to be there and continue to be as small minded as they’ve been for the last 40+ years. 

 

6 hours ago, brianthomas said:

I know here in Buffalo for decades i've heard of the need for a new & larger convention center & the economic boon to the city we'd get if larger conventions could be held here. I'm no engineer or developmental planner but integrating the 2 concepts together could've been a wonderful opportunity. Isn't that what they did with the AT&T Stadium in Dallas? They use it to bring in big events during the off-season which in-turn brings in millions in revenue each year? Not just to the stadium itself, but to all the local hotels & businesses now booked due to the influx of visitors? What a great idea or concept! Wish we would've thought of it.

Its just 1 example of the contrast between smart forward thinking planning & whatever we had.

People are delusional if they think the Bills stadium being downtown and having a dome would somehow create a hotbed for conventions, big events, etc. 

Edited March 19, 2023 by billsfanmiamioh
Spelling

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

 

That's just flat out not true. The extra money spent on infrastructure is needed anyway. It would be a way to get the state to invest in Buffalo rather than downstate for once.

 

Oh well, I'll probably never go back after this past Christmas' storm. Making my family come to me from now on.

Then they should be spending it anyway. It's not dependent on the Pegulas/Bills/NFL and for them to act like it is a cop out.

2 hours ago, mrags said:

Are you from the area? Have you not noticed all the things that have been going on downtown in the last few years? Canalsode, all the breweries, restaurants, bars, etc. 

Great, if it was enough to invest a $billion more and would accrue an adequate ROI, then I'm sure the numbers would've bore that out.

[Buffalo716]

7 minutes ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

 

People are delusional if they think the Bills stadium being downtown and having a dome would somehow create a hotbed for conversions, big events, etc. 

Yep every study says that’s not true

 

And downtown Buffalo actually has a really good scene of Trendy bars and restaurants… Hipster places

 

Sheas district is great

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

The point is, if the stadium was built downtown there would be plenty of other businesses and hotels popping up in an area that is already up and coming vs a suburban area that will not, nor will it ever progress. 

again, that’s your speculation, which is not backed up by economic studies. So believe what you want I suppose. A Bills stadium downtown would not impact the redevelopment going on down there right now or in the future.

[mrags]

1 hour ago, billsfanmiamioh said:

 

People are delusional if they think the Bills stadium being downtown and having a dome would somehow create a hotbed for conventions, big events, etc. 

 

1 hour ago, JoPoy88 said:

again, that’s your speculation, which is not backed up by economic studies. So believe what you want I suppose. A Bills stadium downtown would not impact the redevelopment going on down there right now or in the future.

 

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

Then they should be spending it anyway. It's not dependent on the Pegulas/Bills/NFL and for them to act like it is a cop out.

Great, if it was enough to invest a $billion more and would accrue an adequate ROI, then I'm sure the numbers would've bore that out.

Great. A stadium in the middle of no where Orchard Park definitely seems like the answer 

[billsfanmiamioh]

29 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

 

Great. A stadium in the middle of no where Orchard Park definitely seems like the answer 

The answer to what, hosting football games? It’s been happening there for 50 years, seems to work. 

[LeGOATski]

45 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

 

Great. A stadium in the middle of no where Orchard Park definitely seems like the answer 

It definitely is the answer