davefan66 Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 3 hours ago, WotAGuy said: “The county study did not consider the cost of replacing the stadium’s upper deck, which is generally believed to be in need of replacement in the next five to seven year. The state study pegged the replacement cost at $96 million, a figure the county now says is understated.” https://www.investigativepost.org/2022/03/30/stadium-rehab-costs-lower-than-advertised/ Well, they could close the upper decks and just populate the lower bowl and suites. Add seating, standing room wherever they could. That’s if the uppers are that bad. Not sure how it want addressed during the last renovation. Doesn’t make sense to play elsewhere, the cost of extra travel would be substantial. And that’s assuming home base is Orchard Park. If they were to move operations, that cost would be astronomical- offices, training equipment, put players up, etc. Not to mention a smaller venue, would equal less game revenue. As far as costs to rehab vs new stadium. Makes fiscal sense to build new just on the grounds of total cost over the life of the lease. Nothing to do with who foots the bill, or percentages. Rehabbing to league standards would be less costly now, but would cost more later. Yes, it’s better than before, but it won’t last as long as a new stadium, and probably would require higher yearly maintenance costs than a new stadium. And most likely would require total replacement before lease end anyways.
Saxum Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 I think it is likely that Erie Community College parking lots will be rented by Bills and subsequently rented to Bills fans with shuttle service between two. They could run a shuttle down Community College Drive.
BillsFan4 Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) Personally, this pisses me off a lot more than the tax money being used (which I’m ok with since we get to keep the Bills) https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-to-sell-personal-seat-licenses-to-help-pay-for-private-portion-of-new-stadium/article_c16caec0-1be5-11ec-967c-1fdcafe359cf.html Quote Bills owners Kim and Terry Pegula plan to pay for a portion of their share of any “public/private partnership” struck with New York State and Erie County to construct a new stadium by selling personal seat licenses, a revenue source used to help pay for more than half the stadiums in the league. “We will definitely have PSLs as part of a new stadium,” said Ron Raccuia, the executive vice president and lead negotiator for Pegula Sports and Entertainment, during an interview this week with The Buffalo News. “Every new stadium that’s opened since 2009 has utilized PSLs.” PSLs are a one-time, upfront expense that gives fans the right – and obligation – to purchase season tickets each year, or else return them to the team. They are getting $850 million from NY state, $200 million from the NFL (that they don’t have to pay back as far as I understand) and yet they still plan to pay much of their share by charging their most loyal, die hard fans (season ticket holders) a minimum of $1000+ each (and likely much more depending on the seats) for the “privilege” to spend even more money to buy your season tickets. I know every new stadium uses PSL’s and you do get some perks with them, but I still think it’s BS. Quote “Basically, PSL money is generally treated as the owners’ contribution" toward stadium financing, Zimbalist said, “so that if a stadium costs $1 billion and the owner sells $300 million worth of PSLs, and does nothing else, then they would say 30% of the stadium is being financed by the owner. But of course the PSLs are being bought by the fans.” I think this sums it up ⬇️ Quote “First you pay for the right to buy the seat, and then you pay for the seat itself,” said Andrew Zimbalist, the sports economist at Smith College in Massachusetts who described the practice as a two-part tariff. “My buddy (the sportscaster) Bob Costas used to say, ‘It’s like walking into a restaurant and paying to see the menu, and then buying the food.’ ” Edited April 15, 2022 by BillsFan4 1 1
SoCal Deek Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 2 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Personally, this pisses me off a lot more than the tax money being used: https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-to-sell-personal-seat-licenses-to-help-pay-for-private-portion-of-new-stadium/article_c16caec0-1be5-11ec-967c-1fdcafe359cf.html They are getting $850 million from NY state, $200 million from the NFL (that they don’t have to pay back as far as I understand) and yet they still plan to pay much of their share by charging their most loyal, die hard fans (season ticket holders) a minimum of $1000+ each (and likely much more depending on the seats) for the “privilege” to spend even more money to buy your season tickets. I know every new stadium uses PSL’s and you do get some perks with them, but I still think it’s BS. I think this sums it up ⬇️ Huh? Do you say the same thing when go in a store? Do you think the Gap doesn’t charge you for the cost of the building? Of course they do.
nucci Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 15 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Huh? Do you say the same thing when go in a store? Do you think the Gap doesn’t charge you for the cost of the building? Of course they do. not quite same analogy...do you write a check to the Gap for $2K before you walk in? 2
BillsFan4 Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Huh? Do you say the same thing when go in a store? Do you think the Gap doesn’t charge you for the cost of the building? Of course they do. They still get their money from tickets, concessions, parking, etc. which are all already at a premium and will all likely be even higher at the new stadium. Plus the money they get from all sort of other revenue streams (profit sharing, TV, ads, naming rights, team merchandise, etc). I guess I see it more like the Gap charging you a large one time non-refundable fee just to be able to shop in their store, where everything is more expensive, and if you don’t keep shopping there you lose your right to shop there and have to pay the fee all over again. If you don’t continue to buy season tickets year after year you either have to sell your PSL or it’s forfeited back to the team.
SoCal Deek Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 13 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: They still get their money from tickets, concessions, parking, etc. which are all already at a premium and will all likely be even higher at the new stadium. Plus the money they get from all sort of other revenue streams (profit sharing, TV, ads, naming rights, team merchandise, etc). I guess I see it more like the Gap charging you a large one time non-refundable fee just to be able to shop in their store, where everything is more expensive, and if you don’t keep shopping there you lose your right to shop there and have to pay the fee all over again. If you don’t continue to buy season tickets year after year you either have to sell your PSL or it’s forfeited back to the team. Ever been to Costco? Amazon? Come on now. The new stadium isn’t free. It’s going to cost you more to attend games. I thought everyone understood that. 1
Saxum Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 49 minutes ago, nucci said: not quite same analogy...do you write a check to the Gap for $2K before you walk in? Think of it as a warehouse club. You need to have a membership before you shop. Sometimes prices are cheaper in it but not always. 48 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said: If you don’t continue to buy season tickets year after year you either have to sell your PSL or it’s forfeited back to the team. If the owner is $nyder he sues you or your heirs for money if you fail to keep up payments. Some timeshare companies are like that too.
Mr Info Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 3 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Personally, this pisses me off a lot more than the tax money being used: They are getting $850 million from NY state, $200 million from the NFL (that they don’t have to pay back as far as I understand) and yet they still plan to pay much of their share by charging their most loyal, die hard fans (season ticket holders) a minimum of $1000+ each (and likely much more depending on the seats) for the “privilege” to spend even more money to buy your season tickets. I know every new stadium uses PSL’s and you do get some perks with them, but I still think it’s BS. I think this sums it up ⬇️ Bills already use PSLs. Roughly 60% of club seat charge is a PSL. It says so right on the invoice.
BillsFan4 Posted April 14, 2022 Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) 44 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Ever been to Costco? Amazon? Come on now. The new stadium isn’t free. It’s going to cost you more to attend games. I thought everyone understood that. Right. That was my point in the last post. It’s already going to cost more for tickets, parking, concessions, etc. to help fund the new stadium. And they’re already getting $850M from NYS and $200M from the NFL. I just feel the PSL’s are unnecessary. Im not mad about the new stadium or the taxpayer funds being used. Check all my posts in this thread. I’m thrilled the deal got done and the Bills are staying. I fully understood it would take NYS paying a large portion for it to happen. Especially with Buffalo being such a small market. We’re lucky to even have an NFL team. I’ve done nothing but defend the new stadium deal. I just don’t like the PSL’s. I think it’s a crappy thing to do to your most loyal fans. They’re already getting more public money than any previous NFL stadium. It just seems greedy to me. Edited April 14, 2022 by BillsFan4 1
nucci Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 10 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Ever been to Costco? Amazon? Come on now. The new stadium isn’t free. It’s going to cost you more to attend games. I thought everyone understood that. you don't have to shop at Costco or Amazon, there are other options available. 2
ALF Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 11 hours ago, BillsFan4 said: Right. That was my point in the last post. It’s already going to cost more for tickets, parking, concessions, etc. to help fund the new stadium. And they’re already getting $850M from NYS and $200M from the NFL. I just feel the PSL’s are unnecessary. Im not mad about the new stadium or the taxpayer funds being used. Check all my posts in this thread. I’m thrilled the deal got done and the Bills are staying. I fully understood it would take NYS paying a large portion for it to happen. Especially with Buffalo being such a small market. We’re lucky to even have an NFL team. I’ve done nothing but defend the new stadium deal. I just don’t like the PSL’s. I think it’s a crappy thing to do to your most loyal fans. They’re already getting more public money than any previous NFL stadium. It just seems greedy to me. With a new stadium, resale of tickets to a few games per season to fans from visiting teams with deep pockets will soften the increase. There should be high demand even from non season ticket Bill's fans. 1
SoCal Deek Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 2 hours ago, nucci said: you don't have to shop at Costco or Amazon, there are other options available. I almost hate to post this on a Bills Message Board…but you do know you don’t have to go the Bills game, right? And there are other entertainment options available. (Please don’t kill me Bills fans.) 😳 2
BillsFan4 Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 2 hours ago, nucci said: you don't have to shop at Costco or Amazon, there are other options available. And you can shop at both for free online. 6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I almost hate to post this on a Bills Message Board…but you do know you don’t have to go the Bills game, right? And there are other entertainment options available. (Please don’t kill me Bills fans.) 😳 The point was that there are no other options for season ticket holders. Either pay whatever the Pegulas decide t9 charge for PSL’s or you can’t buy season tickets at all. 1
nucci Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: I almost hate to post this on a Bills Message Board…but you do know you don’t have to go the Bills game, right? And there are other entertainment options available. (Please don’t kill me Bills fans.) 😳 I get this...just saying you can't compare it to memberships at Costco or Amazon. I can buy toilet paper at a different store without a membership fee. I only have 1 option if I want to go to a Bills game 2 1
SoCal Deek Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said: And you can shop at both for free online. The point was that there are no other options for season ticket holders. Either pay whatever the Pegulas decide t9 charge for PSL’s or you can’t buy season tickets at all. Don’t get me wrong. I completely understand the point. Yes, it’s going to cost more to attend Bills games in the brand new stadium. How much more? Answer…what the WNY market will bear, just as is true in the current stadium. Think about it. You’re stuck paying the price of admission. The Pegulas are stuck charging what fans are willing to pay. It’s not like they can bus fans in from Cleveland. The stadium is where it is and it will be for another FIFTY years. Neither you or the owners have options. It’s a balance. 3 minutes ago, nucci said: I get this...just saying you can't compare it to memberships at Costco or Amazon. I can buy toilet paper at a different store without a membership fee. I only have 1 option if I want to go to a Bills game My point is that many retail stores have gone to a hidden ‘membership’ fee to make their daily pricing look and feel lower. It’s a retail gimmick, but it works. 1
Mr. WEO Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Don’t get me wrong. I completely understand the point. Yes, it’s going to cost more to attend Bills games in the brand new stadium. How much more? Answer…what the WNY market will bear, just as is true in the current stadium. Think about it. You’re stuck paying the price of admission. The Pegulas are stuck charging what fans are willing to pay. It’s not like they can bus fans in from Cleveland. The stadium is where it is and it will be for another FIFTY years. Neither you or the owners have options. It’s a balance. My point is that many retail stores have gone to a hidden ‘membership’ fee to make their daily pricing look and feel lower. It’s a retail gimmick, but it works. Absolutely untrue. They could simply choose not to charge PSLs and cough up that small % of the cost of the stadium from their vast personal wealth. 1
SoCal Deek Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Absolutely untrue. They could simply choose not to charge PSLs and cough up that small % of the cost of the stadium from their vast personal wealth. Huh? Why would the Pegulas want to treat you to a football stadium? Why would the owner of any business? This is just silly talk. Now…if you’re desperate to go to a football game for cheaper prices you might want to request that preseason games be reduced admission (I’ve always been in favor of that). Or, maybe you can attend UB games, or CFL, or the local high school, or junior college. 1
The Wiz Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 On 4/11/2022 at 5:02 PM, Kmart128 said: While true... things cost way more to build now then they did just a few years ago... We joked about this at work the other day. We have an art gallery in my building that's about 5,000sqft with marble tile on the floor. They are replacing the ceiling and lighting so they covered the tile with 3/4" plywood so the lifts didn't scratch the tile. I said to the contractor "I think the plywood floor cost more than the marble". He said I was probably right.
BillsFan4 Posted April 15, 2022 Posted April 15, 2022 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: Don’t get me wrong. I completely understand the point. Yes, it’s going to cost more to attend Bills games in the brand new stadium. How much more? Answer…what the WNY market will bear, just as is true in the current stadium. Think about it. You’re stuck paying the price of admission. The Pegulas are stuck charging what fans are willing to pay. It’s not like they can bus fans in from Cleveland. The stadium is where it is and it will be for another FIFTY years. Neither you or the owners have options. It’s a balance. I totally get that they could move the team and make a LOT more money in a bigger market, and I definitely appreciate that they kept the team here. and I like the Pegulas as owners. They’ve done a lot for Buffalo and spent a lot of their own money on the Bills/Sabres in order to try and win + make Buffalo more of a destination. I still think we are lucky to have them. Even the Sabres! 😂 Again, I just don’t like PSL’s. For any team. I’ve thought they were somewhat of a scam ever since they were introduced. Now, if they were optional as a way to get more perks, that would be different. But as they work now, I think they are kind of preying on passionate sports fans. They know they have a monopoly and they take advantage of that. I think it’s kind of BS that NY is going to own the stadium, being built mostly with taxpayer dollars, yet NY residents can’t buy the same season tickets they used to without paying this large fee directly to the Pegulas (who don’t even own the stadium). I guess I just feel that fans kind of already paid for the right to buy tickets to the stadium they are mostly funding. And I also feel like you’re already paying for the right to that seat when you buy season tickets. anyway… I don’t want it to sound like I’m not happy about this new stadium, because I am. I’m very happy the Bills will be in Buffalo probably for the rest of my life now (or most of it).
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