New "ironclad" Stadium deal reached

[BuffaloBills1998]

7 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

We didn't "moan about" downstate stadiums because most of us didn't even notice, and it took research to even find the numbers. That's kind of the point. We go to work and pay our taxes and most of us don't have time to monitor the state budget. 

 

Either way we are going to pay X amount as individual taxpayers. If the team stays we pay X, and if they leave we pay X. X doesn't change either way. We don't all get a discount if the team leaves. We don't pay extra if it stays. Most of the state $$ is coming from the Seneca casinos in WNY, BTW. 

 

Instead, "it will be a shame" and we lose an iconic part of life in WNY. At least people will feel really, really bad for us though! Maybe 3 "reallys" depending. Except Florio, he will be in heaven. I would bet he already has that article written and ready to go. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well the Bills aren’t leaving due to a nice 34 year lease that just got signed and agreed to

I think Mr WEO is really Mike Florio in disguise. Either that or he’s not a Bills fan and is just a troll

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Lost said:

 

Why do you hate the Pegulas so much?

 

I don't know them, so I can't hate them.

 

I just don't think they deserve my money unless I choose to buy a ticket.  It's a very simple concept. 

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

The Bills leaving is one of WEO's ultimate fantasies.

 

You would be wrong again...but this has never deterred you in the past. You've always been one to badmouth Bills fans.  

[Doc]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Well the Bills aren’t leaving due to a nice 34 year lease that just got signed and agreed to

 

Yup.  It's all over but the crying (and whining).

[billsfanmiamioh]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I don't know them, so I can't hate them.

 

I just don't think they deserve my money unless I choose to buy a ticket.  It's a very simple concept. 

 

You would be wrong again...but this has never deterred you in the past. You've always been one to badmouth Bills fans.  

Sorry pal, don’t get to pick how your taxes are spent. The horse is just a skeleton now, move on. “It’s a very simple concept.”

[Rochesterfan]

17 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This isn't a serious belief or statement.

 

People can disagree with the amount of the funding without "actively working to torpedo the deal" resulting in the Bills leaving WNY.  That's certainly what PSE wants you to say.

 

Perhaps people who object to the amount just wanted more from Pegula, instead of the most generous public contribution to any NFL stadium in the history of the US.  Pretty simple. The public knows he can afford more toward the construction. Those who object can rightly conclude that the state didn't really play hardball with this extremely generous deal.

 

If this was an item on a public ballot, there's no chance it would pass. 

 

14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Scroll back...

 

It's not about getting "a discount" as a taxpayer (but it would be nice to get that back in smaller taxes, such as on gasoline); it's about better ways to spend the money.  Using it to pay off a billionaire so he doesn't move his sports team should be way down on the list. 

 

Or let Buffalo pay for it. 

 

10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Again, this is incorrect.  I'm not going to repost the article (one of several easily found via google) that spells out the NYS contribution to each of these stadiums.  The majority of "public money came through federal and NYC tax exempt bonds.  State cash was a small fraction.  For Yankee stadium it was "$115 million, including $61 million for parking garages, $32 million in construction and mortgage recording tax savings and $4 million capital replacement reserves."

 

And Metlife was built on land owned by NJ and as they did put millions into improved area infrastructure, including highway work (which benefits anyone who has to drive in the area), that stave's real contribution was giving up parking and concession revenue.  

 

NYS and Erie are putting up $850 million for construction, plus another 160 million for maintenance and periodic improvements.  1.1 billion. 

 

You can keep saying what you're saying, but that won't make it less incorrect or more convincing.

 

 

 

 

If NFL money "grows on trees" in LA, why in the almost 30 years since there was a team there, despite the fact that 2 teams have moved and 2 more have been created--- none of them moved to or began in LA?  Wouldn't any billionaire owner want to pluck the all that money growing on all those trees?  It was there for taking, yet none of them wanted all that money?

 

The Seneca settlement is between a sovereign tribal government.  WNY has zero to do with that. 

 

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

I don’t know how else to make it simpler for you.  NYC money and federal bonds funded the vast majority of those public commitments, not the state. The states contribution to Yankee stadium was 115 million, no more.  If Erie county was putting up 600 million instead of NYS , your argument might have some cogency.   But they aren’t, so your yankee stadium is absolutely nothing like the cash being handed to the Bills stadium.  Nor was the MetLife financing remotely akin to PSE building the stadium and getting it all back in “breaks”.  You’re making this up.

 

I can’t argue against fabricated facts.  
 

Good luck

 

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I don't know them, so I can't hate them.

 

I just don't think they deserve my money unless I choose to buy a ticket.  It's a very simple concept. 

 

You would be wrong again...but this has never deterred you in the past. You've always been one to badmouth Bills fans.  

 

So you start out arguing that the state and the county are “giving” way to much public in this investment and that the state did not play hardball.  When the reality seems to be that PSE, the state, and the county had lots of discussions about location, infrastructure, money, and costs (over the last 10 years) to come to a general conclusion on what would work.  NYS was basically taking money from Erie county gambling and reinvesting it in Erie County.  You cap this argument with it is the largest expenditure of public money ever for a stadium.

 

Once it is pointed out repeatedly that this is not even close to the biggest expenditure of public money on a stadium (it is the largest amount of state money provided immediately to a stadium project) - you switch to the fact that the state paid 115 million of the 1.2 billion provided to Yankee Stadium - even though that does not include the huge state and federal spending on infrastructure around the stadium.  
 

Then you finally claim the real issue - the Bills shouldn’t get your money unless you by a ticket - now we are at the root because the rest of the arguments were sliding the goals around - public money is public money - If Erie county had laid out 850 million and the state paid nothing - you can darn well know that the state you then give extra money to the county to defray the costs.  Just as they did with NYC and the stadiums.  
 

The NYC funding is repaid multi-times over by breaks given and direct funding of items that the original money was earmarked to cover.  It is still coming from you in very tangible ways.  The difference in this agreement is NYS knew they had a settlement upcoming with a specific amount of money - the governor earmarked those funds (very little from your pocket) to pay for the project.  The agreement also allows the state to recoup money on parking, food, and ticket fees.  
 

This was similar to how they covered the cost for the original Meadowlands stadium, but instead this time they gave the Jets and Giants land worth multibillion dollars at no charge, gave them huge tax breaks to build a stadium, and gave up the revenue and income they had collected previously.  In the end - the stadium will cost taxpayers significantly more in lost land and lost revenue (taxes collected and fees) than whatever they provide the Bills.

 

I have no issues with your last argument if you truly feel they shouldn’t get your money that is fine - the rest of the argument is lazy and just the same talking points parroted by journalists trying to make it look as bad as possible.  Even a small amount of digging - shows how the actual expenditure is in line with other previous costs and the state does not lose out on ways to recoup portions of the money.

 

 

[Saxum]

On 4/3/2022 at 8:24 PM, Doc said:

 

There's something else behind it...

 

Yes whining about not being dome.  Whining about it being in Orchard Park.  Whining is the new fan.

 

How Children Fans Evolved to Whine

And how to stop them from driving you bonkers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/09/parenting/how-children-evolved-to-whine.html

[Doc]

Maybe we can someday get an owner who is so great that he will pay for the entire stadium himself...in another city.

[TheFunPolice]

19 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Again, this is incorrect.  I'm not going to repost the article (one of several easily found via google) that spells out the NYS contribution to each of these stadiums.  The majority of "public money came through federal and NYC tax exempt bonds.  State cash was a small fraction.  For Yankee stadium it was "$115 million, including $61 million for parking garages, $32 million in construction and mortgage recording tax savings and $4 million capital replacement reserves."

 

And Metlife was built on land owned by NJ and as they did put millions into improved area infrastructure, including highway work (which benefits anyone who has to drive in the area), that stave's real contribution was giving up parking and concession revenue.  

 

NYS and Erie are putting up $850 million for construction, plus another 160 million for maintenance and periodic improvements.  1.1 billion. 

 

You can keep saying what you're saying, but that won't make it less incorrect or more convincing.

 

 

 

 

If NFL money "grows on trees" in LA, why in the almost 30 years since there was a team there, despite the fact that 2 teams have moved and 2 more have been created--- none of them moved to or began in LA?  Wouldn't any billionaire owner want to pluck the all that money growing on all those trees?  It was there for taking, yet none of them wanted all that money?

 

The Seneca settlement is between a sovereign tribal government.  WNY has zero to do with that. 

 

The Seneca money comes from WNY is my point. That's where the casinos are and most of their customers are from this general vicinity. 

 

I could be wrong, but I doubt people are coming from all over America to go to Salamanca to gamble. 

 

Overall, I typically enjoy your posts, so I appreciate the back and forth. We just disagree on this one, and that's fine. 

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

4 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Seneca money comes from WNY is my point. That's where the casinos are and most of their customers are from this general vicinity. 

 

I could be wrong, but I doubt people are coming from all over America to go to Salamanca to gamble. 

 

Overall, I typically enjoy your posts, so I appreciate the back and forth. We just disagree on this one, and that's fine.

 

And if they are, even better.  That's money coming in from outside WNY.

[SoCal Deek]

I’ll try this one more time. The most efficient way to lower ticket prices is to spread the stadium expenditure out over more people. It’s that simple. It doesn’t make it right or wrong….it’s just an inconvenient truth. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by SoCal Deek

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Quote

NFL’s Bills Get $600 Million Stadium Subsidy in New York Budget

(Bloomberg) -- New York Governor Kathy Hochul reached a deal with Legislative leaders on Thursday to approve a new state budget with $600 million to help build a new Buffalo Bills 🏟 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/nfl-bills-600-million-stadium-211512272.html
 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce

[ChevyVanMiller]

21 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/nfl-bills-600-million-stadium-211512272.html
 

 

 

Regardless of what people may think of Billionaires getting public money for new stadiums what Gov. Hochul pulled off here was nothing short of amazing. She used a bumper crop of a budget surplus to slip the stadium funding through. She then hedged her bet by quietly negotiating a long-outstanding debt with the Seneca Nation and earmarked that money for the stadium deal while telling Albany and NYC naysayers that the money was generated in WNY and deserved to benefit the people of that region.

 

The result is the Bills are cemented in Buffalo for the next 34 years (something that seemed impossible just a few short years ago) and I’m not sure if it would have happened had the stars not aligned to put her in the Governor’s mansion last year.

Edited April 7, 2022 by ChevyVanMiller

[HOUSE]

I am so happy it's an "Ironclad Deal" otherwise I would be worried

[BillsfaninSB]

4 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/nfl-bills-600-million-stadium-211512272.html
 

 

 

I think the headline is misleading.  The Bills are not getting a subsidy.  NYS owns the stadium.  Not the Bills.  Its like a commercial developer building a strip mall and leasing it to Verizon or Starbucks.

 

Like the Bills with PSLs, naming rights, etc., Verizon will use that leased space to sell phones for a huge profit.   NYS will get their money back over the life of the lease.

 

No one says Verizon or Starbucks is getting a big subsidy.   What am I missing?

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by BillsfaninSB

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

8 hours ago, BillsfaninSB said:

I think the headline is misleading.  The Bills are not getting a subsidy.  NYS owns the stadium.  Not the Bills.  Its like a commercial developer building a strip mall and leasing it to Verizon or Starbucks.

 

Like the Bills with PSLs, naming rights, etc., Verizon will use that leased space to sell phones for a huge profit.   NYS will get their money back over the life of the lease.

 

No one says Verizon or Starbucks is getting a big subsidy.   What am I missing?

 

Will the owner be NYS or Erie County? I thought it was EC but I may be mistaken.  

[ALF]

19 minutes ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

Will the owner be NYS or Erie County? I thought it was EC but I may be mistaken.  

 

Owner will be NYS once both budgets pass funding for new stadium and it is built. EC owned it from the start. Major state funding from casino profits in WNY should make it pass easy.

Edited April 8, 2022 by ALF

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Not much detail yet, but they worked out a deal

 

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/deal-reached-on-220-billion-new-york-budget-here-are-the-key-items/article_7931e454-b6a9-11ec-89d0-cfaa5717d281.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

 

Thought this was thread worthy on it'sown as opposed to merging with ironclad deal....

Edited April 8, 2022 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[SoCal Deek]

Did anyone sneak in an amendment for a dome? 😂

[dwight in philly]

6 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Not much detail yet, but they worked out a deal

 

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/deal-reached-on-220-billion-new-york-budget-here-are-the-key-items/article_7931e454-b6a9-11ec-89d0-cfaa5717d281.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

 

Thought this was thread worthy on it'sown as opposed to merging with ironclad deal....

I agree , this pretty much seals it .. until this, you never could be sure.. 

[machine gun kelly]

Is Ertz on his way too?  That was for you House.

 

Seriously, it was a bunch of saber rallying, politics as usual, yadayada