Josh Allen’s bad two years

[Tanoros]

22 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

They no longer have the same OC. Stop trying to compare apples to oranges.

They are still a run first offense. That part didn’t change. Also, Jefferson put up more numbers as a rookie than Diggs did while there. 
 

I’m not in any way trying to bash Diggs, I’m just pointing out that stats are not solely a by product of a system. The system is a factor in stats, but not the sole reason for one’s stats. The fact remains, a rookie wr on a run first offense, put up more numbers than Diggs did on a run first offense. It’s not exactly comparing apples to oranges, more like tangerines to navels. Diggs on the Bills offense vs Diggs on the Vikings offense would be comparing apples to oranges. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by Tanoros

[GerstAusGosheim]

8 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Should check out the archives the night he was drafted.  Pretty embarrassing stuff by some pretty popular posters .  

Howard and Jeremy most certainly have not eaten enough crow about wanting Rosen. My god they were insufferable. 

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He was mostly bad up until his injury… he was a different QB once he came back from the injury against Jacksonville.  

He was pretty damn good in the Vikings game - on the road against a great defense.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

They are still a run first offense. That part didn’t change. Also, Jefferson put up more numbers as a rookie than Diggs did while there. 
 

I’m not in any way trying to bash Diggs, I’m just pointing out that stats are not solely a by product of a system. The system is a factor in stats, but not the sole reason for one’s stats. The fact remains, a rookie wr on a run first offense, put up more numbers than Diggs did on a run first offense. It’s not exactly comparing apples to oranges, more like tangerines to navels. Diggs on the Bills offense vs Diggs on the Vikings offense would be comparing apples to oranges. 

 

Rookie Justin Jefferson had that advantage that for the most part he got single coverage and teams doubled Thielen (whereas when Diggs was there he got most of the doubles). Wht was super impressive about Jefferson is he backed it up in 2021 when everyone knew he was the guy and scheming to stop him. 

[extrahammer]

The moment that stands out for me when I knew he would be good was that game and it was in 2018. It was the first time we really saw him take the team on his back and carry them to a win. 

 

23 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

He was pretty damn good in the Vikings game - on the road against a great defense.

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

8 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Fair amount of revisionist history in this thread. There were a number of posters that had their doubts about Allen after year 2. You know who you are. That said there were legit concerns. His deep ball accuracy was still a major issue after year two.  And the stats don’t lie. 58.8% completion in year 2 is horrible. What was a sign of future success was his TD/INT ratio improvement in year 2.  Keep in mind Lamar Jackson is winning the MVP,Allen losing to Watson in the playoffs with worries about hero ball, and Mahommes is going to the SuperBowl at the same time. 
I believe we all saw glimpses of greatness from Allen. But to say it was obvious he was going to make the massive improvement from year 2 to year 3 is disingenuous.

This is correct.  Through year two there were a lot of doubters.  People didn't believe he could do the good things consistently, and people went on and on about "accuracy."  I was sold after the second half of year one. 

[SCBills]

He was raw Year 1, but still had the splash plays that made you believe in him.

 

Year 2, he was average, with more splash plays.  Should have won his 1st Playoff Game if our defense doesn't unravel, John Brown gets two feet in or a phantom penalty isn't called at the end of the game.   

 

Year 3.. MVP candidate.  

 

Year 4... god-mode Playoffs

[TheBrownBear]

9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

This is correct.  Through year two there were a lot of doubters.  People didn't believe he could do the good things consistently, and people went on and on about "accuracy."  I was sold after the second half of year one. 

There were posters that legitimately believed he would be unseated by JAKE FROMM!!!  LOL.

 

Admittedly, I was a "wrong Josh" guy on draft night, but was over it and on the Allen train by the time the season kicked off.   I was a true believer by the end of his first year and believed it was only a matter of time until he became a star in the league.  Look at the putrid offensive roster in 2018.  He was a one man offense down the stretch of that season and still produced a winning (or was it .500) record after the midway point.

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

I don't know why we need this revisionist history.

 

Josh was mostly terrible his rookie year. Sure there were extenuating circumstances like a poor O-line and a dreadful WR corps, but Josh himself was not good. He played a ton of hero ball and made way too many mistakes. That being said, he did have some amazing plays that flashed his talent and showed he had the potential to be a great QB. 

 

His 2nd year Josh was mostly a game manager. The roster was significantly improved and McD/Daboll obviously had Josh focusing on reducing the hero ball and mistakes to let the team win games without the QB being a difference maker. That was successful as Josh did drastically cut down on mistakes, but he was also very rarely a difference maker

[Greg S]

10 minutes ago, SCBills said:

He was raw Year 1, but still had the splash plays that made you believe in him.

 

Year 2, he was average, with more splash plays.  Should have won his 1st Playoff Game if our defense doesn't unravel, John Brown gets two feet in or a phantom penalty isn't called at the end of the game.   

 

Year 3.. MVP candidate.  

 

Year 4... god-mode Playoffs

 

Year 5...Super Bowl champ and MVP

[TheBrownBear]

17 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

I don't know why we need this revisionist history.

 

Josh was mostly terrible his rookie year. Sure there were extenuating circumstances like a poor O-line and a dreadful WR corps, but Josh himself was not good. He played a ton of hero ball and made way too many mistakes. That being said, he did have some amazing plays that flashed his talent and showed he had the potential to be a great QB. 

Sorry, but you're wrong.  Given the roster, he was absolutely NOT TERRIBLE in his final six starts of his rookie season.  He put up 13 TDs, averaged 287 ypg and went 3-3 during that season ending stretch with Robert Foster and Zay Jones as his receivers.  (And it would have been a 4-2 record if Clay doesn't drop that gimme at the goal line in Miami).  It wasn't revisionist history or us just relying on the "eyeball test", his stats back up the claim that he was improving and actually fairly good by the end of his rookie year.  Yes, there were still hero ball moments and the accuracy wasn't the best, but, assuming your viewing wasn't colored by a pre-existing agenda, you could clearly see that Josh was going to be a very good player at a minimum.

Edited March 24, 2022 by TheBrownBear

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Baptism by fire!

 

 

No, but you sure did let us all know about it those first few years.  You had no patience despite the glimpses of what he could become with more experience and tutelage.

Wrong. 
 

Allen needed to be better than he was in 2018/19 to be a great starting QB in the NFL. And he did get a million times better. He would admit this.
 

So no reason to pretend he was great back then. He wasn’t.

[SoTier]

10 hours ago, billvernsays said:

The media loves talking about how much better Josh Allen is now compared to his 1st 2 years, like it came outta nowhere and in my opinion that’s simply lazy on their part.
 

I went back and read the message board archives during Allens rookie season (I have too much time on my hands) and the sense most of us had was after Josh sat out a bit with his injury the game started to slow down for him and he was consistently showing us that he had the “it” factor to be what he’s become. 
 

His O-Line was terrible and his WRs helped him even less yet he was still out there running for 18 yards on a 3rd and 16. Or firing a ball on 3rd and 22 past the sticks hitting Kelvin Benjamin or Zay Jones in the hands who would constantly let him down. 
 

The point I’m trying to make is that is was clear to us that he was special early on regardless of the completion % because when you watched the games you knew he was giving you everything he’s got, every play. 

 

These NFL analysts should step their game up. 

 

I disagree with your analysis.  Most QBs who come into the NFL with as many issues as a passer as Allen had as a rookie never become starting NFL QBs, much less elite ones.   He had raw talent, but so do lots of guys who never make it.  That he has been able to transform himself into an accurate, disciplined superstar is simply amazing, and is a testament to his drive, self discipline, and work ethic.  

[billsfan89]

2018 Josh was in an offense that lacked talent and he looked like he did in college bad and good aspects of his game showed. In 2019 Josh was around better offensive talent and he played more within himself and tampered down the “wild” aspects of his game. In 2019 Josh played more like a game manager who can flash and make plays. He still needed a bit more firepower and to fine tune his game.

 

In 2020 Josh got his deep ball back and had the firepower on offense and in 2021 it was more of the same.

[billsfan1959]

2 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

No, but you sure did let us all know about it those first few years.  You had no patience despite the glimpses of what he could become with more experience and tutelage.

 

Some people like to look at Allen's play the first two years in a vacuum, cling to belief that Allen was simply a bad QB, and that the QB he is now came out of nowhere - completely unexpected by anyone. When they say, "nobody saw it coming," it makes it easier to rationalize their own awful, lazy takes.

[Jay_Fixit]

it’s not like Josh was ever bad. He was just really raw.

 

He was definitely bad against Green Bay as a rookie. But he showed more in those few games than someone like Mac Jones did in his full season last year.

 

And in his second year I think outside of the clear penalty missed call, he was a John Brown sideline catch on an absolute dart away from the Bills beating Houston.

[Chicken Boo]

11 hours ago, billvernsays said:

The media loves talking about how much better Josh Allen is now compared to his 1st 2 years, like it came outta nowhere and in my opinion that’s simply lazy on their part.

 

Sure, there were flashes, but Josh IS better than he was his first 2 years and by a large margin.  He's able to not just show flashes, but sustain his level of play game in game out, mostly.  

 

Consistency is the key for all QBs.

4 minutes ago, FFadpecr said:

 

MJ at the 0:53 mark:

 

"Or maybe, you're just making _________"

 

One of my absolute favorite commercials ever!  🙌🏾 🐐 

[GoBills808]

Of course he was bad his rookie year😂😂😂

 

look at who he was throwing to

[dhgold]

I remember JA's year two as a mixed bag, showing considerable improvement from year one but still quite lacking as far as precision, consistency and poise. I loved his leadership and intangibles and the fact that he got the heretofore suck-ass Bills to the playoffs but at the end of the season I was on the fence as to whether he was the long term answer. 

 

Sometime around the end of the 2019 regular season (JA's year 2), I had a conversation with a relative who'd recently played in the NFL at a pro-bowl level and who spent a good part of his retirement watching the league. I asked him what he thought of Josh and he said "dude can't play". I tried to defend Josh on the basis of intangibles and improvement while acknowledging he still had much room for improvement, but my relative wasn't buying it. (At the end of Josh's year three, the same relative considered him an elite NFL QB.)

 

The only person I can think of who was convinced JA was the answer after year was Adam Schein.

Edited March 24, 2022 by dhgold

[Utah John]

I like to compare Allen's attitude to that of other Bills' QBs.  

 

There was a game near the end of Kyle Orton's time here (please don't say that name three times, or he'll come back) when the Bills were down near the end of a game, and Orton had to scramble to the right and get a first down, or the Bills were going to lose.  As this player ran toward the line to gain, two defenders came up to challenge him, and he ran out of bounds short of the line to gain.

 

Put Allen in that situation, and at least one of the defenders will have to make a business decision right there on the spot.