Josh Allen’s bad two years

[Motorin']

6 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

The media is, after all, about entertainment.  The story is more compelling this way:  Josh was an overlooked QB in high school; then a JUCO nobody; then an unimpressive starter at lowly Wyoming; and then an inaccurate, unpolished starter in Buffalo for a couple of years before making his unexpected/miraculous emergence as an NFL superstar.

 

But the truth isn't quite that dramatic.  His growing skillset was there to see at Wyoming and, even more so, his first two years with the Bills.  The OP is right when he points out the OL and WR corps Josh's first couple years with us didn't do him many favors.  His stats those years were deflated, Brady like, by the lack of talent around him.

 

Exactly. You can look at his Wyoming tape and see throws with an insane level of accuracy and arm talent that almost no one else in the history of the sport could make. Josh was never inaccurate. He was inconsistent, in his mechanics, especially on the easy throws. 

 

We've been blessed to see his steadily improving consistentcy coincide with his steadily mastery of the mental side of the game.

 

 

[Not at the table Karlos]

Don't remember if it was his first of second year but there was a 3rd and long and he completed a nice pass for a first. Penalty. 3rd and even longer. Allen makes a nice play and completes the pass for a first. Penalty. Third and dumb long. Allen completes another pass for first. Penalty. Third and stupid long. Idr what happened on the play but we ended up punting. That's when I was completely convinced he was our "franchise" QB. 

 

He had a similar sequence against the 49ers in his third year where he threw something like 4 touchdowns on one drive but all were called back by penalties. 

 

[Watkins90]

I think what I find even funnier is all the twitter warriors for other teams trying to act like their QB can take that step in year 3 like Allen did. I see a lot of Miami fans trying to say that they expect Tua to take the huge step forward that Allen did. Except, Tua has never really showed the flashes that Allen has showed. In fact, Tua was probably better statistically speaking over his first two years, but Allen consistently gave you flashes in that time that showed he could be elite. I have never seen  that from Tua. 

[17islongenough]

The two plays that made me think he had "IT" were the Vikings hurdle and the TD against Jacksonville to Foster

[HappyDays]

7 hours ago, ßookie_tech said:

It might be unpopular, but Beasley may have been almost as big a factor of Diggs to Josh’s development. 

 

I don't really agree that Beasley or Diggs helped Allen's development. That's a talking point used by analysts who need to justify their awful takes on Allen after his 1st and 2nd year. Beasley and then Diggs helped the offense's development because they were actually NFL caliber receivers. We were so starved for WR talent that there were people on here trying to argue John Brown was a #1 WR because of one good season he had with Allen throwing him the ball. Or that Duke Williams was an NFL receiver. Allen developed into an elite player because he worked incredibly hard on the technical and mental part of the game. That would have been true even if he had gone to the Jets.

[The Red King]

So, the QB that everyone was saying was the least ready for the NFL and was going to take time to develop...took time to develop?  ^.-

[Royale with Cheese]

The dude is only 25.  He probably won't even hit his peak until he's like 28.  He will just keep getting better.

 

I feel in the next few years, he's going to have an all time season.  Something like 5,000 yards, 45 TD's passing, 700 yards rushing, 10 rushing TD's and a 100+ rating.

Edited March 24, 2022 by Royale with Cheese

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Watkins90 said:

I think what I find even funnier is all the twitter warriors for other teams trying to act like their QB can take that step in year 3 like Allen did. I see a lot of Miami fans trying to say that they expect Tua to take the huge step forward that Allen did. Except, Tua has never really showed the flashes that Allen has showed. In fact, Tua was probably better statistically speaking over his first two years, but Allen consistently gave you flashes in that time that showed he could be elite. I have never seen  that from Tua. 

 

Tua was definitely more competent as a rookie than Josh. But you always like "this is all there is." Tua got a bit more consistent after his injuries last year but it is still a case of "he is consistently this". You always saw with Josh from very early on moments where you knew "if he can do that consistently he is going to be a hell of a player." Once Josh became a competent NFL Quarterback in year 2 he was already at a level that Tua can't reach. 

[FireChans]

Josh left a lot of plays on the field in years 1 and 2, there’s no reason to deny that.

[Greg S]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Josh left a lot of plays on the field in years 1 and 2, there’s no reason to deny that.

 

I would give Allen a pass on year 1. Rookie QB thrown into the fire. The Bills screwed up the QB situation that year with McCarron and Peterman. Josh was supposed to sit and learn for a year. Plus that team had no talent. Some even thought they would go winless that year or close to it.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Greg S said:

 

I would give Allen a pass on year 1. Rookie QB thrown into the fire. The Bills screwed up the QB situation that year with McCarron and Peterman. Josh was supposed to sit and learn for a year. Plus that team had no talent. Some even thought they would go winless that year or close to it.

It is what it is, pass or no. 
 

it’s not like he isn’t a great QB now. We don’t have to pretend like he was great as a rookie. 

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

1 minute ago, Greg S said:

 

I would give Allen a pass on year 1. Rookie QB thrown into the fire. The Bills screwed up the QB situation that year with McCarron and Peterman. Josh was supposed to sit and learn for a year. Plus that team had no talent. Some even thought they would go winless that year or close to it.

 

Baptism by fire!

 

Just now, FireChans said:

It is what it is, pass or no. 
 

it’s not like he isn’t a great QB now. We don’t have to pretend like he was great as a rookie. 

 

No, but you sure did let us all know about it those first few years.  You had no patience despite the glimpses of what he could become with more experience and tutelage.

[Greg S]

2 minutes ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

 

Baptism by fire!

 

 

It worked out in the end and that is all that matters.

[shane nelson]

Its been a true joy watching him develop.  Coming from a small HS and College he had nowhere near the core skills or coaching of his peers.  But his passion for the game and arm strength was clear.  The 3 games that standout that he could be special were the Vikings, Dolphins loss & Jax.    

[Kaep]

Allen led the league with most dropped passes in 2019.  So that “crazy” leap from year 2 to 3 isn’t shocking at all when you insert Diggs/Beasley

[fergie's ire]

Yeah the "He sucked and then suddenly was good" read comes from lazy journalists and casual fans.  Yes, there were HUGE problems with Josh's game in the first year.  He could not hit a swing pass to save his life, could not put any air under the ball, and he was slow reading defenses.  (Though he didn't say it, he too was seeing ghosts against the Patriots.)  However, anyone who watched could see the promise with plays like the 75 yard pass to Foster against the Jags.  (Still one of Allen's most amazing plays.) Second year, he could throw the swing pass and put some air on the ball, at least with intermediate passes.  Reading defense was better but still struggled at times.  Inconsistency was the biggest issue and panicking and trying to make the big play.  As someone (don't remember who) described him, Josh could have a lineman hanging off him, be on his back foot and throw the ball 40 years on the line and hit a receiver on the numbers....then on the next play lateral ball to the mascot.  2nd half of 3rd year and 4th year really see Josh dissecting offenses (reading, misdirecting, etc.) better ability to loft even a deep ball and some amazing touch (like against 49ers or the ball he was "throwing away" to Knox).  It is a trajectory that anyone should have seen as possible (though not certain) from day one.

[st pete gogolak]

If I recall correctly, the thought was that Josh would sit the first year, similar to Mahones.  It was pretty universal thinking that he was "raw" and would need time to develop.  Despite the numbers I think every single Bills fan was very excited about him after the first year and couldn't wait until opening day the next season.  That trend continues.  Can't wait for opening day 2022.

[Nester]

8 hours ago, Nelius said:

I think you could tell by about his 3rd game or so that we might have drafted somebody special. Was that just his third game when he did the first hurdle against Minnesota?

 

I agree he wasn't trash and that a lot of it was just propped up by talking heads that wanted to be right about him being a reach, and they were able to cling to that through about the end of his 2nd season. Even casuals and pessimists knew he wasn't a bust well before the end of his 2nd season, so everybody but Nick Wright jumped on the bandwagon real quick when it was evident in season 3 that he was the real deal. 

I bought my Josh allen jersey during half time of that game. He Hurdled and I was sold. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Tanoros said:

Justin Jefferson has put up bigger numbers than Diggs did as a Viking. 
 

You are correct about stats being a byproduct of system. However, talent can also cause change/tweak a planned system. 
 

Either way, Allen showed elite traits and play making ability pre Diggs. So put two elite guys together and it’s no wonder they both go off. 

 

They no longer have the same OC. Stop trying to compare apples to oranges.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

9 hours ago, billvernsays said:

The media loves talking about how much better Josh Allen is now compared to his 1st 2 years, like it came outta nowhere and in my opinion that’s simply lazy on their part.

 

The media? Talk about lazy, blaming the media for stating what has become obvious... he literally did make great strides in his game by working extremely hard and getting great coaching and workouts from people like Jordan Palmer. Even if he would have had a lot better weapons, he still would have had growing pains and would have been making bonehead decisions like any young QB would make. So yeah, ease up on the crusade against the media.