Josh Allen’s bad two years

[Buffalo Boy]

5 hours ago, billvernsays said:

The media loves talking about how much better Josh Allen is now compared to his 1st 2 years, like it came outta nowhere and in my opinion that’s simply lazy on their part.
 

I went back and read the message board archives during Allens rookie season (I have too much time on my hands) and the sense most of us had was after Josh sat out a bit with his injury the game started to slow down for him and he was consistently showing us that he had the it factor to be what he’s become. 
 

His Online was terrible and his WRs helped him even less yet he was still out there running for 18 yards on a 3rd and 16. Or firing a ball on 3rd and 22 past the sticks hitting Kelvin Benjamin or Zay Jones in the hands who would consistently let him down. 
 

The point was it was clear to us that he was special early regardless of the completion %. 

 

These NFL analysts should set their game up. 

    I was a Josh Billiever by the second half of his first season.

    However, there were plenty on here who weren’t. Even well into season two this was the case.

     After the Cowboys Thanksgiving game I called him a Franchise QB. I got some grief for that( as well as some agreement)

    That was the game when it was apparent that he could process and distribute the ball quickly. It also showed he could do it on the National stage with the whole n country watching.

     So, NFL media types can be lazy with their takes but this board itself can also be a Doosey.

[eball]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

Josh Allen was bad his rookie year but only in the way a lot of rookies are bad their rookie year. I actually thought it was a very encouraging season because all the playmaking ability was there to see. He struggled with the processing a bit and he took off to run too often but there was lots to like about his rookie year.

 

Yup.  Most of us saw the “it” factor early.  Even in 2018 Josh showed that he could elevate the play of those around him, which is a telltale sign of true greatness.  He simply needed to learn the game and get those mental and physical reps because he didn’t grow up being “groomed” to play QB.  Once the brain caught up to the body, he became what we are so fortunate to witness today.  And he’s still getting better, which is scary as hell for the rest of the league.

 

Don’t ever expect the national media to put forth any sort of thoughtful analysis on the topic of Josh because (a) it’s a “quick hit” and “hot take” world; and (b) they don’t dig deep enough anyway.  I don’t let it bother me and neither should any other Bills fan.  Sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

[billsfan1959]

4 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Anyone who says he was awful his rookie year or even both years is just announcing they are completely clueless and didn’t actually watch him play, so their opinion is not worth the time to read.

 

I mean Josh was a completely different player second half of his rookie year after returning from injury.  
 

In his second year, he was atrocious the first half the season on the deep ball which was the one throw keeping him out of the 60% club…but much improved the last half the season.  If you took his deep ball completion % the back half of the season and used it over the course of the season he was well into the 60% completion rate club.  
 

Huge leaps of improvement in-season, but you would only know that if you actually watched him play.  Not to mention the jaw dropping plays he was making every game.  
 

 

 

I agree. I'm one that argued, back then, that Allen's play was not anywhere near the level of criticism he was taking. Allen certainly had his moments where he played like most rookie QBs. However, people forget just how bad that offense was around him.

 

In 2018, he had virtually no run game with an offensive line ranked 32nd in run blocking and starting running backs who averaged 3.2 YPC; a passing game in which he faced the 2nd most blitzes and had the highest % of throws under pressure; while throwing to a receiving corps ranked 32nd overall and near the bottom of the league every meaningful category (dropped passes, separation, YAC, etc.).

 

He certainly played like a rookie at times, but I'm not sure how many rookies would have played as well as he did - much less get better - with the s*** he had to work with...

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by billsfan1959

[DCofNC]

5 hours ago, mannc said:

Nonsense.  Diggs certainly helped, but he’d been in the league 5 years and Josh Allen elevated him to elite receiver…in his first year with Josh Allen, over 400 yds more than he’d ever gained in his career.. same with Beasley.

Let’s not forget he took the corpse of John Brown over 1k in yards and had people believing Foster was too valuable to trade (subsequently cut btw).

[Greg S]

6 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

The funny thing is even at Josh Allen’s worst he was probably one of the best QBs we’ve ever had besides Jim Kelly

 

Well when looking at the history of Bills QB's the top 3 are

 

1. Kelly

2. Kemp

3. Ferguson

 

Flutie and Bledsoe had their 15 minutes of fame as Bills QB's but they really don't count. I am not counting Allen as he is still playing. When his career is over I expect the list of top Bills QB's to be.

 

1. Allen - hopefully with a couple of Lombardi trophy's 

2. Kelly

3. Kemp

4. Ferguson

 

 

[Milano]

5 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Fair amount of revisionist history in this thread. There were a number of posters that had their doubts about Allen after year 2. You know who you are. That said there were legit concerns. His deep ball accuracy was still a major issue after year two.  And the stats don’t lie. 58.8% completion in year 2 is horrible. What was a sign of future success was his TD/INT ratio improvement in year 2.  Keep in mind Lamar Jackson is winning the MVP,Allen losing to Watson in the playoffs with worries about hero ball, and Mahommes is going to the SuperBowl at the same time. 
I believe we all saw glimpses of greatness from Allen. But to say it was obvious he was going to make the massive improvement from year 2 to year 3 is disingenuous.

Doubters and disingenuous.. not me. 57 and watching this team since I was 6 and surrounded by the enemy here in RI. I never post here, but read often enough.

Never saw the dude play once in college..all it took was a Couple of throws/pocket awareness/runs in his first full start against SD (the halftime retirement game), and it was clear to me that he "could" be special. Next game Minnesota, there was no doubt, he "was" special, we finally hit on one, it was obvious. Knowing it was was neg cap year, paying players to not be there, I couldn't wait for FA 2019 to begin.

Started wagging my finger at the Pats fans in 2018 (live in RI, they are everywhere!), saying "watch out.. they're coming" 

[SoMAn]

No doubt there were rookie mistakes, but coming from Wyoming he had little exposure to the level of speed and talent of the NFL. Naturally, there was going to be a learning curve.

 

But as others have pointed out, the Minnesota game showed glimpses of the smart, athletic leader and gave hope to the long-suffering Bills Mafia.

 

His first 2 years were not awful, as seems to be a common perception. He was simply a rookie who had a huge adjustment from college - and BTW, had a less than average surrounding cast on the O-line and receiving group. He was behind the eight ball from the start. How well could any QB have done with that supporting offense?

 

With off-season Jordan Palmer sessions to correct mechanical flaws, and his improving ability to read defenses, his natural physical gifts are more evident now. The signs were there in the first 2 years.  It blossomed in year 3 after getting a couple years of experience.  But, he didn't suck in years 1 and 2.

 

In year two they won 10 games. How bad could he have been?

 

 

[Greg S]

[streetkings01]

My biggest issue used to be where Allen could throw 10 perfect passes in a row and then throw 1 bad pass and the media and opposing fans would be like “See….see that’s the real Josh Allen right there”…….it definitely used to trigger me!

[BearNorth]

6 hours ago, ßookie_tech said:

It might be unpopular, but Beasley may have been almost as big a factor of Diggs to Josh’s development. 

I think that both Diggs and Beasley, with their experience in the league, helped Josh to understand how big a part accuracy plays in the game today.  He is much better fitting the ball into very tight windows since he started throwing to those two.  I think the New England game shows L'il Dirty gets this as well.  Hopefully Crowder and OJ Howard get it as well.

[ArtVandalay]

He wasn't even "bad" those two years.  From the perspective of him being a rookie he had a solid rookie year.  That WR corps was completely devoid of talent and one of the worst I've ever seen in my life on any team. 

 

His 2nd year wasn't bad at all either, pretty solid.

Edited March 24, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[Tanoros]

7 hours ago, billvernsays said:

The media loves talking about how much better Josh Allen is now compared to his 1st 2 years, like it came outta nowhere and in my opinion that’s simply lazy on their part.
 

I went back and read the message board archives during Allens rookie season (I have too much time on my hands) and the sense most of us had was after Josh sat out a bit with his injury the game started to slow down for him and he was consistently showing us that he had the it factor to be what he’s become. 
 

His Online was terrible and his WRs helped him even less yet he was still out there running for 18 yards on a 3rd and 16. Or firing a ball on 3rd and 22 past the sticks hitting Kelvin Benjamin or Zay Jones in the hands who would consistently let him down. 
 

The point was it was clear to us that he was special early regardless of the completion %. 

 

These NFL analysts should set their game up. 

The reason I knew Josh was the real deal his rookie year was the stark difference in the offense with him vs without him. Even before the injury, think about how the offense had some life and he made some plays from time to time. When he went out, we were on pace for the one of the worst offenses of all time, and the offense had no life at all it seemed. Josh was the sole reason our offense even had a chance. 
 

It’s amazing how those in the media have never picked up on this, but at the same time, it takes watching most, if not all of the games. 
 

About your comment of him getting better throughout the season, isn’t it amazing how he has done this every season? He’s better at the start of the season than where he left off, and by season end, he is better than where he started. It’s amazing, and I feel like he is still ascending after the playoffs last year. 

[Don Otreply]

The NFL talking heads, at that time totally dismissed the Bills as being a relevant team in the league, so none of them paid any actual attention to the team during those two years  and mostly talked out their combined azses, which is SOP for them.
 

   Anyone who watched the games (which the vast majority of talking heads didn’t do) saw the potential and growth of Allen’s skill set over those two years.
 

   The talk show hosts just repeat each other’s talking points and occasional watched highlights, then they just blah blah blah…, by and large they say and talk about what they are told to say and talk about, the sports journalism part is mostly nonexistent. 

[TPS]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

If you go make a list right now of Josh Allen's best and most exciting performances, there would be at least one, maybe two, from his rookie year. That Vikings game is definitely up there, and the week 17 Dolphins game was great too. He scored 5 TD's that game.

 

And that was the down year for the Bills where they were trying to reset the cap, so the team was devoid of talent.

 

Then in Allen's 2nd season he helped take the team back to the playoffs and there has been a steady climb every year.

 

I agree. It is a lazy narrative that analysts use to save their ego (because they need to justify bashing him) and/or just plain ignorance from only looking at box scores and stats.

 

Josh Allen has shown flashes of his elite play every single year, and you could argue in every single game, he has ever played in. And he has had a steady, upward trajectory his entire career. He took a big step in 2020 for sure, but he certainly did not come out of nowhere.

 

I would argue he also took a big step forward at the end of 2021, particularly in the playoffs. He became unstoppable.

I was at the Jacksonville game that year, and at one point said to my buddy, “looks like we have a franchise QB”.  Point is, that game belongs on your list. 

[The Jokeman]

6 hours ago, ßookie_tech said:

It might be unpopular, but Beasley may have been almost as big a factor of Diggs to Josh’s development. 

It's not unpopular anyone who watched this team knows that Beasley was a big part of our passing game. Yet it's also obvious that he not playing at the same level as when he first got here. Whether it be age, playing through injury etc. I think Josh working with Jordan Palmer in the offseason etc. shows he's committed to be as great as his physical gifts allow. Toss you can tell when he says he wants to bring this city a Super Bowl he genuinely means it. Toss in he's got that Tom Brady gene where I think he wants to be the best and wants to constantly improved. Aka intangibles that you can't get from a scouting report. As I'll admit I never expected him to be a top 5 NFL QB, I thought we'd be lucky for him to be top 10-15 as from his college play/scouting reports I thought he was going to be a QB that only relied on his physical gifts to will himself to be better yet instead Josh also taking the mental approach to learn to read defenses better, learn how to put himself in position to play better etc. Toss in he's got a great personality etc. Just an all around great guy and my favorite Bill of all time. 

[Tanoros]

15 minutes ago, Milano said:

Doubters and disingenuous.. not me. 57 and watching this team since I was 6 and surrounded by the enemy here in RI. I never post here, but read often enough.

Never saw the dude play once in college..all it took was a Couple of throws/pocket awareness/runs in his first full start against SD (the halftime retirement game), and it was clear to me that he "could" be special. Next game Minnesota, there was no doubt, he "was" special, we finally hit on one, it was obvious. Knowing it was was neg cap year, paying players to not be there, I couldn't wait for FA 2019 to begin.

Started wagging my finger at the Pats fans in 2018 (live in RI, they are everywhere!), saying "watch out.. they're coming" 

Exactly! This is how I felt. Against the Ravens week 1, Allen’s was in the end zone rolling to his right and delivered a rocket to Logan Thomas. That’s was the moment I knew he could be special, it was something I hadn’t seen from a Bills qb before (I was very little during the Kelly years and don’t remember much, but the end of those years). 

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, TPS said:

I was at the Jacksonville game that year, and at one point said to my buddy, “looks like we have a franchise QB”.  Point is, that game belongs on your list. 

That play where it looked like he was going to take a sack but somehow found Foster for the TD was one for the ages. Yet he convinced me he was special in the infamous Clay drop game.

[Tanoros]

5 minutes ago, TPS said:

I was at the Jacksonville game that year, and at one point said to my buddy, “looks like we have a franchise QB”.  Point is, that game belongs on your list. 

The throw to Robert Foster that game, might have been his best throw his first season. Stood in the pocket, taking a shot, yet delivering a strike on the run. Such a beautiful pass. 

[Tanoros]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I agree. I'm one that argued, back then, that Allen's play was not anywhere near the level of criticism he was taking. Allen certainly had his moments where he played like most rookie QBs. However, people forget just how bad that offense was around him.

 

In 2018, he had virtually no run game with an offensive line ranked 32nd in run blocking and starting running backs who averaged 3.2 YPC; a passing game in which he faced the 2nd most blitzes and had the highest % of throws under pressure; while throwing to a receiving corps ranked 32nd overall and near the bottom of the league every meaningful category (dropped passes, separation, YAC, etc.).

 

He certainly played like a rookie at times, but I'm not sure how many rookies would have played as well as he did - much less get better - with the s*** he had to work with...

 

This right here! This is the reason I had such high hopes for Allen after year 1, he made our offense competent. Remember how the offense was when Allen went out that year? I could hardly stomach watching the games, our offense was just garbage. 

[Tanoros]

6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Both helped each other equally. Diggs came from a run first system. There was no way he was ever putting up those numbers there. 

 

You need to have a better understanding that stats, by and in large, are a byproduct of the system you play in and some systems have ceilings on productivity at certain positions.

Justin Jefferson has put up bigger numbers than Diggs did as a Viking. 
 

You are correct about stats being a byproduct of system. However, talent can also cause change/tweak a planned system. 
 

Either way, Allen showed elite traits and play making ability pre Diggs. So put two elite guys together and it’s no wonder they both go off.