Chad Hall at Ohio State pro day

[Santana]

16 hours ago, SCBills said:

Good. 
 

While the knee jerk reaction to the Hill trade and our CB depth is to take a Cornerback at 25, I think all this WR movement tells us that the pick needs to be a Wide Receiver. 
 

Taking McDuffie, Booth etc at 25 isn’t stopping Tyreek Hill.   We can’t even single cover him with a healthy Tre White.  He’s just not that type of WR… you have to bracket.  
 

25-30M going rate for elite WR’s now… Draft one and hope Diggs loves Buffalo enough to take a “discount” when the time comes. 

Never really thought about it like that but I do agree.

[mrags]

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Diggs is not going anywhere anytime soon I have no idea why you would think that he has two years left on his deal and we’re probably going to give him a new contract before then you don’t take a number one receiver and move him on

How’s that working for Tyreek Hill right now?

[TheBrownBear]

1 hour ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Lamb 1st rounder, Evans 1st rounder, Jefferson 1st rounder, M. Williams 1st round; Chase 1st rounder; Godwin 3rd rounder, Diggs 5th rounder; Hill 5th rounder; Davis 4th rounder; Adams 2nd rounder; Kupp 3rd rounder, Renfrow 5th rounder, D. Johnson undrafted. Obviously there are talented receivers in the first round, but WR tend to be a bit more hit and miss. The best CBs in the league (Ramsey, White, Gilmore, Lattimore, Ward) tend to be 1st rounders, some exceptions are X. Howard 2nd rounder, J.C. Jackson & Kenny Moore who were undrafted.

 

Therefore I would definitely target a Cornerback.

I mean, this is rather simplistic thinking, and is pretty much the story for every position player outside of QB.  And you conveniently left out young ascending guys like DJ Moore, DeVonta Smith, Waddle, Hollywood Brown, Pittman, etc. (also, D. Johnson was the #66 pick of the draft - not undrafted).  Generally speaking, the guy you grab in the 1st or 2nd round is more likely going to be better than the guy you'd grab in the 3rd or 4th round at the same position.  Also, when you're comparing 1st round receivers to the rest of the draft field (2nd through 7th rounds) you have to take into account how many more receivers are drafted in the final 6 rounds of the draft.  What's the flameout/bust rate for a 1st round receiver vs. the bust rate for the rest of the field?  

 

At the end of the day, the Bills scouting department will grade all these guys out and take the best player available at a position of need at #25.  If that happens to be a CB, the pick will be a CB.  If it happens to be a WR, it will be a WR.

[LEBills]

6 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

And the D wasn’t good enough to hold a lead for 13 seconds.

Yea I tend to see it as Dane Jackson and Levi Wallace were good enough to put us in position to win against a high power Chiefs offense. And as Whorlnut pointed out, I don’t think the 13 seconds was an inditement of our corners as much as our situational coaching.

But, who knows at this point, CB is very likely in the first round. But I don’t think our current CB roster makes it a necessity. 

[TheBrownBear]

37 minutes ago, mrags said:

How’s that working for Tyreek Hill right now?

I don't know what universe these guys live in to think that Diggs will be content to play out his deal without trying to extend by the end of this year (at the latest).  This is Diggs' last chance to get paid and he will be on the wrong side of 30 when his contract expires.  I love Diggs right now, but history tells us that he's not beyond playing the malcontent if he views his relationship with Beane going sideways over the next 12 months.  

[clayboy54]

17 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Says who?  Disaster awaits if you start Dane and a rookie who isn’t ready for the NFL.  Everyone will be complaining that they “could not even get one stop to win the game”.

Beyond Safety if White is missing, the CB spot, as currently manned, is by far the worst position on the team- and it is a premium position.

Dane looked better and better every week. Sure he's still learning but, it's not anything close to a disaster. I'm betting Tre will be ready, if not at 100%. Yes, we have to add somebody who's played in the league and a rookie. I strongly believe that someone that can play at the level Wallace was at will be fine and is all we need to get started. Remember, Taron has been a lock-down in the slot. Tre and Dane are 1-2 on the outside moving forward.

[whorlnut]

26 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

Dane looked better and better every week. Sure he's still learning but, it's not anything close to a disaster. I'm betting Tre will be ready, if not at 100%. Yes, we have to add somebody who's played in the league and a rookie. I strongly believe that someone that can play at the level Wallace was at will be fine and is all we need to get started. Remember, Taron has been a lock-down in the slot. Tre and Dane are 1-2 on the outside moving forward.

Right. Some people might not like to hear it, but this staff thinks very highly of Dane Jackson. 

[mrags]

11 hours ago, bobobonators said:

i keep going back and forth on this. I see absolutely nothing wrong with CB in RD1. If Dane gets injured before Tre bets back our CBs will be a disaster. 
 

If we draft a CB at 25 hes an instant day 1 starter on this roster. 
 

Id we draft a WR at 25, with Diggs, Davis and Crowder/McKenzie all ahead of him, how much are we going to actually use this guy this season? Maybe 300 receiving? MAYBE

 

Thats a lot to invest in a player who could very well contribute little to a season where the Bills are going all-in to win. 

 

But if Diggs goes down…or Davis..yeh it would be nice to have another weapon to plug in. I dont think there is a wrong answer per se.

 

I lean towards the everyday starter at CB being picked Rd 1. And drafting a WR in the 2nd round who can be integrated into the offensive juggernaut as the season progresses. 

You likely would get an instant starter in the 2nd round as well at CB. 
 

the argument is you get a difference maker on offense with 25 and likely don’t after that. Unless you trade back for extra picks and still manage to get Dotson in the late first or early 2nd. But honestly, I don’t see the Chiefs passing on Dotson now with pick 28 and 30. They need to replace Hill and Dotson instantly does that. Not saying he’s going to be as good as Hill. But he fills that role for them. He is incredibly fast, great hands, and great route runner. Possibly the best in the class. Can play inside or out depending on the situation. 
 

the argument that you answered for, is of what if we be of our starting WRs gets injured. We’re screwed. If Diggs goes down we’re screwed. But Dotson brings that type of play. Drop off wouldn’t be nearly as much as if we had someone like McKenzie filling that role. 
 

then you have to factor in the possibility that Diggs will be gone soon. Or even Davis as he may want too much in his 2nd contract. 
 

then you have to figure the rotation of WRs in this offense. There was plenty of times last year that backups were in on key plays. A player like Dotson helps that. Or the ability to role with 4-5 WRs and not have a drop off anywhere in the WR room. 
 

The biggest thing you have to figure is what I believe most. The fact that Beane has said we need more speed at the position. We don’t have a WR that can blow the doors off a CB and take it to the house. Probably why we now have McKenzie and Crowder instead of Beasley as well. But we still need that home run threat in the WR room. I believe with all the above reasons, and mostly this one, we will take the best WR with our first round pick. Unless a stud is there at CB that we didn’t expect. Because you can still get fast WRs in the mid rounds of the draft. 

 

 

[OldTimer1960]

11 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Right. Some people might not like to hear it, but this staff thinks very highly of Dane Jackson. 

Jackson does not have the kind of speed to match many receivers in the league.  Maybe his smarts and other athletic attributes can allow him to play adequately at this level, but if your argument is that the Bills must get more high end offensive weapons, then how do you feel comfortable with an average at best (by NFL standards) athlete trying to cover those high end athletes on the opposition?  Beyond that, who is starting along with Jackson of Tre misses say the first month or more?  In the newly loaded AFC, losing a game or two early could leave you on the outside looking in at the playoffs.

[mrags]

45 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

I don't know what universe these guys live in to think that Diggs will be content to play out his deal without trying to extend by the end of this year (at the latest).  This is Diggs' last chance to get paid and he will be on the wrong side of 30 when his contract expires.  I love Diggs right now, but history tells us that he's not beyond playing the malcontent if he views his relationship with Beane going sideways over the next 12 months.  

I don’t think he becomes an issue. But we’ve seen players cut that I never thought would be cut. Beasley for example has been Joshs safety blanket for 3 years now. 
 

Joshs contract is no different than Mahomes in that now they are going to have to make really tough decisions as to who to keep and who to let go. You can’t continue to pay everyone too money for their positions and have a 40+ million dollar QB eating away at a huge chunk of your cap space. 
 

im actually shocked that we made the room for Miller. Granted we needed it, but could have filled just about every other hike we had for that money. But the pressure is on. They are in win now mode. And they have failed miserably at the DE position since they’ve been here. Maybe Rousseau makes a jump. He’s definitely shown promise. But he’s hardly a lock for our future at this point. 

[mrags]

12 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Jackson does not have the kind of speed to match many receivers in the league.  Maybe his smarts and other athletic attributes can allow him to play adequately at this level, but if your argument is that the Bills must get more high end offensive weapons, then how do you feel comfortable with an average at best (by NFL standards) athlete trying to cover those high end athletes on the opposition?  Beyond that, who is starting along with Jackson of Tre misses say the first month or more?  In the newly loaded AFC, losing a game or two early could leave you on the outside looking in at the playoffs.

Unfortunately for your argument, Beane has proved you wrong. They have had plenty of opportunities to sign her FAs at the CB position and haven’t done so. And we all know how Beane doesn’t like to leave holes going into the draft. 

[OldTimer1960]

54 minutes ago, mrags said:

Unfortunately for your argument, Beane has proved you wrong. They have had plenty of opportunities to sign her FAs at the CB position and haven’t done so. And we all know how Beane doesn’t like to leave holes going into the draft. 

How does that counter my argument?  They have signed 1 premium free agent - at the most premium position besides QB.  Signing even a good FA CB would cost a ton (not quite as much as Von Miller, but a lot).

 

 

[somnus00]

22 hours ago, Shake_My_Head said:

 

I don't think it's a knee jerk reaction (and I'm sure McBeane doesn't as well).    Teams have to be build for the long haul, not just this season.   The glaring hole at CB is a big weakness, Tyreek Hill or no Tyreek Hill.     The draft is deep in WRs that can help beyond the first round (i.e., Gabe Davis in the 4th round).    

 

The Bills averaged 36 ppg against the Fins over the past two years.    No way the Fins average 37+ against the Bills, even with Hill.   

Plus, against Miami, the Bills don't have to "cover" Hill as much as they have to force Tua to throw outside the hashmarks. Tua doesn't have the arm.

[BigAl2526]

There is enough of a chance Olave could slip to do a thorough evaluation.  The odds are he'll be gone though.  If he's there at 22 or 23 and that's the guy Beane wants, he could possibly make a trade at that point.

[purple haze]

21 hours ago, bobobonators said:

i keep going back and forth on this. I see absolutely nothing wrong with CB in RD1. If Dane gets injured before Tre bets back our CBs will be a disaster. 
 

If we draft a CB at 25 hes an instant day 1 starter on this roster. 
 

Id we draft a WR at 25, with Diggs, Davis and Crowder/McKenzie all ahead of him, how much are we going to actually use this guy this season? Maybe 300 receiving? MAYBE

 

Thats a lot to invest in a player who could very well contribute little to a season where the Bills are going all-in to win. 

 

But if Diggs goes down…or Davis..yeh it would be nice to have another weapon to plug in. I dont think there is a wrong answer per se.

 

I lean towards the everyday starter at CB being picked Rd 1. And drafting a WR in the 2nd round who can be integrated into the offensive juggernaut as the season progresses. 

Beane thinks long term not just this season.  If a WR is the best player on the board he will take him.  Crowder and McKenzie are both on what amounts to 1 year deals.   As we see a team doesn’t necessarily want to be in the high end FA WR market these days.  Beane would be smart to grab a WR in rd. 1 or 2.

12 hours ago, CapeBreton said:

I like the idea of drafting Olave at 25, more for the reason of blocking the Chiefs from getting one of the top WRs at 29/30.

I think Olave will be gone by 25.  His skills, tape and timed speed line up way too well.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[SCBills]

21 hours ago, mrags said:

I don’t think he becomes an issue. But we’ve seen players cut that I never thought would be cut. Beasley for example has been Joshs safety blanket for 3 years now. 
 

Joshs contract is no different than Mahomes in that now they are going to have to make really tough decisions as to who to keep and who to let go. You can’t continue to pay everyone too money for their positions and have a 40+ million dollar QB eating away at a huge chunk of your cap space. 
 

im actually shocked that we made the room for Miller. Granted we needed it, but could have filled just about every other hike we had for that money. But the pressure is on. They are in win now mode. And they have failed miserably at the DE position since they’ve been here. Maybe Rousseau makes a jump. He’s definitely shown promise. But he’s hardly a lock for our future at this point. 

The Von Miller move could potentially pay dividends beyond just what he brings to the table himself. 
 

We currently have a Year 3 DE, Year 2 DE and another Year 2 DE. 
 

When you’re drafting EDGE in the late 1st/2nd Round, it’s similar to the TE position.. they typically take a few years to develop.  That means we are now expecting Rousseau, Basham and Epenesa to start becoming the players we hope they will be now.  
 

What better way to maximize the chances of that happening than by putting them into an entire off-season with Von Miller in the room with them day in/day out. 
 

This move doesn’t just give us an elite pass rusher for, hopefully, the next 3 years.. it also gives us the best chance of developing his replacement(s) down the line.