Whaley interviewing for Steelers GM

[BADOLBILZ]

42 minutes ago, Billl said:

I get that Whaley didn’t have a ton of success in Buffalo, but he set up Beane for success on his way out.  Between drafting Tre and acquiring the extra first round pick which gave Beane enough draft capital to trade up the following year, he deserves some credit.  If Whaley had drafted Lattimore at 10, there’s a very good chance that Allen isn’t a Bill and Beane is job hunting right now.  That may have been the biggest win-win trade in NFL history.

 

 

McDermott inherited a talented roster that should have won at least 11 games or more in 2016.   That part is due to Whaley/Nix drafting and free agent choices.

 

But they didn't try to win with that talent.......they instead got rid of all of the prime aged young talent(Gilmore, Woods, Watkins,Darby, Dareus) that had contract leverage over the team and just kept all of the older players to do a soft re-build without tanking.

 

The 2017 offseason was mostly McDermott and likely also Beane surreptitiously,  knowing he was taking over as GM after the draft,  because the Bills wanted the Panthers draft info.    Which is likely why they didn't select a QB in 2017.    Not the nonsensical excuse that they didn't have time to scout QB's.......McDermott was hired in early January like any other new coach.  Carolina wasn't scouting QB's because they didn't need one.   

 

Whaley and Terry Pegula reportedly really liked Mahomes but McDermott was given full organizational control so they traded back to help out his good buddy Andy Reid.    

 

Regardless,  Whaley had little to do with the successes or failures of that offseason.    Micah Hyde might be the only exception, but he was a pretty easy evaluation as a free agent so who knows.

 

Also the capital they acquired from the Chiefs was used to trade up for Tremaine Edmunds.    Allen was not acquired with help of any of the Chiefs picks.    

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

I get that Whaley didn’t have a ton of success in Buffalo, but he set up Beane for success on his way out.  Between drafting Tre and acquiring the extra first round pick which gave Beane enough draft capital to trade up the following year, he deserves some credit.  If Whaley had drafted Lattimore at 10, there’s a very good chance that Allen isn’t a Bill and Beane is job hunting right now.  That may have been the biggest win-win trade in NFL history.

McDermott told Whaley what to do and fired him the next day.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 3/19/2022 at 5:37 PM, Mr. WEO said:

Ahh...the wistful Doug Whaley nostalgia..

 

He was a bum.  Ran from responsibility.  McBeane gutted his life's work on the Bills, rebuilt them  and presto....SB contenders...

 

 

Worst cap manager ever

 

[Albany,n.y.]

1 hour ago, Billl said:

I get that Whaley didn’t have a ton of success in Buffalo, but he set up Beane for success on his way out.  Between drafting Tre and acquiring the extra first round pick which gave Beane enough draft capital to trade up the following year, he deserves some credit.  If Whaley had drafted Lattimore at 10, there’s a very good chance that Allen isn’t a Bill and Beane is job hunting right now.  That may have been the biggest win-win trade in NFL history.

The 1st round pick that the Bills got from KC had nothing to do with drafting Josh Allen-It was used to trade up for Edmunds.  The picks used in the Allen trade were pick 21 & Glenn to move up to 12, the Bills 2nd round pick and the 2nd round pick from the Rams in the Watkins trade to move up to 7.  All that was Beane.  

 

As has been stated, rumors are the 2017 draft was McDermott's, not Whaley's.  If McDermott had drafted Lattimore instead of White, then the Bills wouldn't have Edmunds, that's it.  Remember, the 3rd that they got from KC was wasted on the Zay Jones pick.  If they didn't draft Edmunds, then maybe they would have used the 3rd rounder from Cleveland in the 2018 draft to take Fred Warner. 

 

No matter what they did or didn't do in April of 2017, it played no factor in the Allen trade, the real biggest win-win trade, a trade that helped Tampa win a Super Bowl & the Bills getting the best player in the 2018 draft.  The Mahomes trade turned out to be a big win for KC, since the Bills could have had either Lattimore or White at 10, and the extra picks were used on Edmunds & Z. Jones with the Tyrod pick thrown in to get Edmunds.    

 

 

[BarleyNY]

26 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

McDermott told Whaley what to do and fired him the next day.

I remember reports that Whaley was so angry about having no real role in the draft that he walked out of the War Room mid draft. 

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

Whaley does well drafting good players but not so well doing so with any regard to how they fit on the team...tends to have a lot of square pegs in round holes on the roster even tho they are good players.

 

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Whaley is not an unknowledgeable guy.   He was the pro personnel coordinator, as I recall, when he was with Pittsburg last time.   And I remember Peter King once viewed him as a rising star because Whaley was good at what he did there.

 

But it turns out pro personnel coordinator is the right role for Whaley.  He's not a great speaker as you point out.  His judgment is sometimes lacking.  And he seems to be a batter evaluator of pro talent than college.

 

3 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

There was some discussion at time that Whaley's college issues were due to scouting department which was canned when he was and then 3 or 4 scouts were rehired.  He would need a good director of college scouting and NFL front offices are all teams even if in some front offices a few people including owners may dominate and not listen to people they pay.

 

I think that all three of the above posts are valid observations, but keep in mind that Whaley didn't have as much power as most GMs have since Russ Brandon ran the Bills with the aim of maximizing profits.  Consequently, not only were player personnel decisions made primarily to improve the bottom line, but this also applied to support staff like scouts and player evaluators.  IIRC, Tom Modrak was still running player evaluations remotely from Philly when Beane was hired and cleaned out the administration.

 

I think Whaley did a decent job within the limitations put on him by the Bills.  I think he might be a good pick for the Stillers GM.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by SoTier

[BADOLBILZ]

31 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

 

 

I think that all three of the above posts are valid observations, but keep in mind that Whaley didn't have as much power as most GMs have since Russ Brandon ran the Bills with the aim of maximizing profits.  Consequently, not only were player personnel decisions made primarily to improve the bottom line, but this also applied to support staff like scouts and player evaluators.  IIRC, Tom Modrak was still running player evaluations remotely from Philly when Beane was hired and cleaned out the administration.

 

I think Whaley did a decent job within the limitations put on him by the Bills.  I think he might be a good pick for the Stillers GM.

 

 

 

 

The Steelers are an entirely different organizational setup..........the ownership there are actual football people who are also skilled in the politics of the league.

 

They don't need an "executive" GM to run the entire show like the Pegula's needed Brandon Beane to be.

 

The Steelers have functioned fine with a road scout type GM like Colbert......that's how it's been there for a LONG time.   

 

Whaley was far more qualified as a talent evaluator than Beane.    Beane had just dabbled a bit in scouting for two years prior to being hired.   He was a director of football ops in Carolina.........which is to say he took care of the actual details that keep the organization functioning for the GM.  

 

Though I am sure he's improved in the 5 years on the job,  the thing Beane is probably least qualified to do is the actual player scouting..........which is why he's surrounded himself with a lot of well regarded personnel men to help him make the player decisions.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Billl said:

I get that Whaley didn’t have a ton of success in Buffalo, but he set up Beane for success on his way out.  Between drafting Tre and acquiring the extra first round pick which gave Beane enough draft capital to trade up the following year, he deserves some credit.  If Whaley had drafted Lattimore at 10, there’s a very good chance that Allen isn’t a Bill and Beane is job hunting right now.  That may have been the biggest win-win trade in NFL history.

 

It was made by McDermott not Whaley. Whaley was manning the phones but Sean was making the calls. 

[Aussie Joe]

We think Whaley moved up and picked Zay Jones in the second though when MCD was in the restroom…

Edited May 9, 2022 by Aussie Joe

[FilthyBeast]

Would be interested to see what Whaley does if he gets a second chance as an NFL GM.

 

I'm not defending him by any means, but he wasn't surrounded by the best folks in Buffalo in terms of Nix, Brandon, previous scouting department, etc. Also let's not forget he was here during McD's first draft so you have to give him some credit for White, Milano and Dawkins who remain key pieces of this current team and culture.

 

And considering Pittsburgh's track record they wouldn't be giving him a very hard look if they weren't impressed by whatever he's pitching to them during the interview process.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

We think Whaley moved up and picked Zay Jones in the second though when MCD was in the restroom…

 

C'mon Man

 

McDermott hired Zay Jones college coach to be the Bills WR coach.  He wanted his guy.

 

 

17 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

I'm not defending him by any means, but he wasn't surrounded by the best folks in Buffalo in terms of Nix, Brandon, previous scouting department, etc. Also let's not forget he was here during McD's first draft so you have to give him some credit for White, Milano and Dawkins who remain key pieces of this current team and culture.

 

Unclear how much credit Whaley gets for that draft.  The rumor is McDermott may have used Panthers scouting info, and that Whaley built the board but McDermott made the picks.

 

Be that as it may, Whaley was (and probably is) a decent talent evaluator IMO.   Building a team, salary cap management etc - maybe not so much.

[Jauronimo]

I am surprised Whaley is getting another shot at GM based on how poorly he did in front of the media, the gaffes about no human should play football amidst a concussion scandal, and the fact that he had both the Marrone and Ryan relationships get to a point beyond dysfunctionality.  

 

He and Rex weren't speaking to each other at the end of the year.  Most likely why Ryan sent a guy onto the field in OT against Miami that Doug had cut a few days earlier.  

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

McDermott inherited a talented roster that should have won at least 11 games or more in 2016.   That part is due to Whaley/Nix drafting and free agent choices.

 

But they didn't try to win with that talent.......they instead got rid of all of the prime aged young talent(Gilmore, Woods, Watkins,Darby, Dareus) that had contract leverage over the team and just kept all of the older players to do a soft re-build without tanking.

 

The 2017 offseason was mostly McDermott and likely also Beane surreptitiously,  knowing he was taking over as GM after the draft,  because the Bills wanted the Panthers draft info.    Which is likely why they didn't select a QB in 2017.    Not the nonsensical excuse that they didn't have time to scout QB's.......McDermott was hired in early January like any other new coach.  Carolina wasn't scouting QB's because they didn't need one.   

 

I don't remember an excuse that they "didn't have time to scout QB", but a couple of points -

1) the scouting process starts way earlier than January.  Starts in the previous spring with watching lots of tape and deciding which QB they will focus on during the fall, then scouting them in person as well as more tape

2) it seemed pretty clear that Whaley and his staff were the lamest of lame ducks after McDermott was hired.  And plainly put, McDermott wasn't going to hitch his wagon to a QB selected by a lame duck scouting staff/GM (or to snippits of leaked information from the Panthers, for that matter).

 

You're correct that the roster had plenty of talent in 2016 and that McDermott/Beane in part created the 2018 salary cap situation they have complained of.

 

[Aussie Joe]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

C'mon Man

 

McDermott hired Zay Jones college coach to be the Bills WR coach.  He wanted his guy.

 

.

 

Im trying to come up with a possible explanation that between picking Tre, Dawkins and Milano they picked Zay Jones ? Must be some excuse for that …

[DCofNC]

9 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

 

Im trying to come up with a possible explanation that between picking Tre, Dawkins and Milano they picked Zay Jones ? Must be some excuse for that …

Honestly, he turned into a head case, but he has got himself together and had a decent year last season.  I think he got into drugs after getting picked to be real honest, but that’s from hearing the stories of him.  Either way, he did look good in college, and had the measurables you want.

[eball]

24 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Im trying to come up with a possible explanation that between picking Tre, Dawkins and Milano they picked Zay Jones ? Must be some excuse for that …

 

Zay Jones was a beast in college.  He lost his confidence early in his rookie season and it has taken him years to get it back.

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

C'mon Man

 

McDermott hired Zay Jones college coach to be the Bills WR coach.  He wanted his guy.

 

 

 

Unclear how much credit Whaley gets for that draft.  The rumor is McDermott may have used Panthers scouting info, and that Whaley built the board but McDermott made the picks.

 

Be that as it may, Whaley was (and probably is) a decent talent evaluator IMO.   Building a team, salary cap management etc - maybe not so much.

 

Wouldn't surprise me but still think the 2017 overall has been the best during this current regime.

 

Obviously landing Allen a year later is why this franchise is where we are today which is 100% on Beane, but overall Beane hasn't put together a draft quite like 2017 yet in terms of the collective impact the aforementioned playoffs have had.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't remember an excuse that they "didn't have time to scout QB", but a couple of points -

1) the scouting process starts way earlier than January.  Starts in the previous spring with watching lots of tape and deciding which QB they will focus on during the fall, then scouting them in person as well as more tape

2) it seemed pretty clear that Whaley and his staff were the lamest of lame ducks after McDermott was hired.  And plainly put, McDermott wasn't going to hitch his wagon to a QB selected by a lame duck scouting staff/GM (or to snippits of leaked information from the Panthers, for that matter).

 

You're correct that the roster had plenty of talent in 2016 and that McDermott/Beane in part created the 2018 salary cap situation they have complained of.

 

 

McD did state that, not maybe in those exact words.  Can recall reading that in more than one article.   But basically stated he wasn't interested in taking a QB in his first year in Buffalo.  Thought his reasoning was valid.

Edited May 9, 2022 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

Wouldn't surprise me but still think the 2017 overall has been the best during this current regime.

 

Obviously landing Allen a year later is why this franchise is where we are today which is 100% on Beane, but overall Beane hasn't put together a draft quite like 2017 yet in terms of the collective impact the aforementioned playoffs have had.

 

Yep. You can put 2018 on a par with 2017 because Josh Allen and QB trumps all. But 2017 - an all pro lockdown corner, a franchise left tackle and a 2 contract linebacker drafted in round 5. It is the best draft the Bills have had in my fandom.

[Jauronimo]

46 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Zay Jones was a beast in college.  He lost his confidence early in his rookie season and it has taken him years to get it back.

Couldn't have helped when he was not selected to fight in Jesus' Army.  From what I can gather from Twitter, the bar has not been set very high.