Spitballing on RB target for Bills

[Sierra Foothills]

8 minutes ago, mrags said:

I find it hilarious that people here want to argue that we shouldn’t take Hall and should take other RBs in the 3rd to 4th rounds like Spiller, White, Allgeier, Ford, Cook. They are all budget Hall. It’s like the difference between a Prime Aged Steak and a good Choice steak. Adding another one of those RBs into this offense might be ok, but none of them are going to be the stud that Hall will be. 
 

he is just as good and effective as Ettiene and we know we were interested in Ettiene. We’ve shown that we are looking at RB as we lost out on Mcissick. 
 

The other argument that goes with RBs that nobody ever wants to talk about is this. While I understand RBs are a dime a dozen in this league. Really good ones are not. Really good ones are Henry, Taylor, Peterson, Elliot, Kamara. They are all extremely good, or were in their primes. They all received or are going to receive huge 2nd contracts. The argument for drafting a really good RB and getting the most out of them before they hit FA on a huge deal is not much different than a stud QB or WR or DE on a rookie deal. The difference is you are paying your QB or WR or DE. You are a fool to pay a RB a huge deal. That’s where the “RB are a dime a dozen” talk comes from. Because teams don’t want to spend the money on a RB into their 2nd contact. 
 

Am I saying we should draft Hall in the first round? No, probably not. But if the opportunity to trade back into multiple 2nd or 2nd and 3rd picks arise. Or the opportunity to trade back into the middle of the 2nd round is possible. If he’s there you should take the shot. Hall is by far the best back in this draft. We can’t continue to trout out the slow, indecisive, budget RBs like Singletary or Hall, or some other 3rd round prospect and expect them to be Thurman Thomas. Even with the best line in football it’s not possible. 
 

fwiw, Ettienes contract looks really serviceable for someone that could be the best back in the league with his kinds of talents. Just like Taylor. Just like what Hall could be. 
 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/travis-etienne-72405/

 

Tell me you didn't type all of that on your phone...

 

😄

 

To the bolded above, yes we never know how the draft will unfold. There's definitely a scenario where the Bills find themselves at #25 and not liking their options.

 

In that scenario I could see where they might trade down and pick up an extra high pick to address two areas... RB and CB for instance.

 

If they put themselves in the BPA situation with their first pick there's no reason to think that they couldn't address CB, OL, or WR with their second pick. 

 

 

[mrags]

7 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Tell me you didn't type all of that on your phone...

 

😄

 

To the bolded above, yes we never know how the draft will unfold. There's definitely a scenario where the Bills find themselves at #25 and not liking their options.

 

In that scenario I could see where they might trade down and pick up an extra high pick to address two areas... RB and CB for instance.

 

If they put themselves in the BPA situation with their first pick there's no reason to think that they couldn't address CB, OL, or WR with their second pick. 

 

 

You know I typed that all on my phone. I haven’t turned on a computer in about 10 years. Who even uses computers anymore???

 

The great thing about this draft is that it’s extremely deep at WR, IOL, and CB. Which bodes really well for is. You could get someone like Dotson, or possibly even Olave in the 1st round and then still get a really good, 1st day starter at CB or IOL in the 2nd or even 3rd round. 
 

or in my scenario, trade your 1st round pick for multiple 2nds or 2nds and 3rds and get as many bodies as you can at positions of need. 
 

I’m not 100% on Hall but he should be in the conversation as having an elite talent at the RB position and having someone there that can take it for 6 any time he touches the ball. 6’1”, 220lb RBs with 4.3 speed are just freakish and not normal in any way. He legit has the physical attributes to truly be one of the best in the league. 

[Solomon Grundy]

38 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

The only way I see a first round rb is when the offensive line is fully established (ours isn’t),

Pittsburgh selected a 1st rd RB and their offensive line wasn’t established yet Harris still had a phenomenal season. A special RB can make an average offensive line look good. Breece Hall had back to back seasons with 1700 yds from scrimmage with 20 TDs. IMO, he’s as good of a prospect as Harris and Taylor was coming out of college 

[Solomon Grundy]

3 minutes ago, mrags said:

starter at CB or IOL in the 2nd or even 3rd round. 

There’s some good, talented CBs like Decobie Durant that’s playing in the HBCUs that can be had late

[Sierra Foothills]

6 minutes ago, mrags said:

You know I typed that all on my phone. I haven’t turned on a computer in about 10 years. Who even uses computers anymore???

 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

On 3/18/2022 at 7:12 PM, wppete said:

Breece Hall 

 

On 3/18/2022 at 7:27 PM, Magnum Force said:

Breece Hall

If you want him (which I do) you better be prepared to select at 33-37. He'll be gone after that. So we either trade down or up.

[Magnum Force]

7 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

 

If you want him (which I do) you better be prepared to select at 33-37. He'll be gone after that. So we either trade down or up.

Agreed…. I would be good taking him at 25 and taking CB Kyler Gordon at 57… I like Gordon as much if not better than Booth, Elam and McCreary.  The only CBs I would take over him are Stingley, Gardner and McDuffie.  

Edited March 20, 2022 by Magnum Force

[Tanoros]

8 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Pittsburgh selected a 1st rd RB and their offensive line wasn’t established yet Harris still had a phenomenal season. A special RB can make an average offensive line look good. Breece Hall had back to back seasons with 1700 yds from scrimmage with 20 TDs. IMO, he’s as good of a prospect as Harris and Taylor was coming out of college 

Your right, that’s true. The best rbs do tend to do atleast all right with not so good lines. An elite rb would be amazing next to Josh. 
 

However, now that we have to pay Josh, it’s important to get good ROI, and there is no better way to do that than having positions such as DE, OT, CB on rookie contracts. With all that being said, playmakers trump anything and I’m ok with the Bills taking anyone if they truly believe they will be a playmaker. So if that’s Hall and the Bills staff feels that way so be it, however a tie would have to go to the positions offering more ROI. 

[Milanos Milano]

Breece Hall. We wanted Etienne last year and McKissic this year. We are going to get a pass catching RB, the only question is who. 

8 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

 

If you want him (which I do) you better be prepared to select at 33-37. He'll be gone after that. So we either trade down or up.

I’m fine with drafting Jameson/Dotson and Hall. I’d trade back up into the range you stated. 

[Milanos Milano]

On 3/19/2022 at 10:18 AM, Magnum Force said:

I posted this in another section.. how would you feel if Kansas City drafted Breece Hall at pick 30? 

Mad, because he would dominate there. 

[Milanos Milano]

9 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

There’s some good, talented CBs like Decobie Durant that’s playing in the HBCUs that can be had late

Alontae Taylor is my pick for a 3rd or 4th round CB. 

[John from Riverside]

10 hours ago, mrags said:

I find it hilarious that people here want to argue that we shouldn’t take Hall and should take other RBs in the 3rd to 4th rounds like Spiller, White, Allgeier, Ford, Cook. They are all budget Hall. It’s like the difference between a Prime Aged Steak and a good Choice steak. Adding another one of those RBs into this offense might be ok, but none of them are going to be the stud that Hall will be. 
 

he is just as good and effective as Ettiene and we know we were interested in Ettiene. We’ve shown that we are looking at RB as we lost out on Mcissick. 
 

The other argument that goes with RBs that nobody ever wants to talk about is this. While I understand RBs are a dime a dozen in this league. Really good ones are not. Really good ones are Henry, Taylor, Peterson, Elliot, Kamara. They are all extremely good, or were in their primes. They all received or are going to receive huge 2nd contracts. The argument for drafting a really good RB and getting the most out of them before they hit FA on a huge deal is not much different than a stud QB or WR or DE on a rookie deal. The difference is you are paying your QB or WR or DE. You are a fool to pay a RB a huge deal. That’s where the “RB are a dime a dozen” talk comes from. Because teams don’t want to spend the money on a RB into their 2nd contact. 
 

Am I saying we should draft Hall in the first round? No, probably not. But if the opportunity to trade back into multiple 2nd or 2nd and 3rd picks arise. Or the opportunity to trade back into the middle of the 2nd round is possible. If he’s there you should take the shot. Hall is by far the best back in this draft. We can’t continue to trout out the slow, indecisive, budget RBs like Singletary or Hall, or some other 3rd round prospect and expect them to be Thurman Thomas. Even with the best line in football it’s not possible. 
 

fwiw, Ettienes contract looks really serviceable for someone that could be the best back in the league with his kinds of talents. Just like Taylor. Just like what Hall could be. 
 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/travis-etienne-72405/

Did Travis E. even play last year?

[MrEpsYtown]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

Did Travis E. even play last year?

Really bad lisfranc injury in the preseason. He may not be 100% for awhile

[John from Riverside]

17 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Mad, because he would dominate there. 

No....he wouldnt.....because WE DONT RUN THE BALL ENOUGH

 

He would get touches because he can catch....that doesnt mean he would dominate

Just now, MrEpsYtown said:

Really bad lisfranc injury in the preseason. He may not be 100% for awhile

I am not wishing injury on the player at all.....but that is the risk you take with drafting a running back....they take hits....and you just used a premium pick on them.

 

The same people wanting a RB in the first would be the same people annoying complaining we cant stop anybody throwing the ball because we dont have CORNERS

[Magnum Force]

Just for a reference 

40 times

Zack Moss 4.70

Devin Singletary 4.66

Breece Hall 4.39

Kenneth Walker 4.38

Derrick Henry 4.54

Jonathon Taylor 4.39

Christian McCaffery 4.49

 

[Nelius]

I like the Duke Johnson idea. Much more than Melvin Gordon. Melvin Gordon makes a ton of mistakes and is kind of a headcase. Not a very likeable player, he'd be the whipping boy by mid-season. I can see him losing a costly fumble in the playoffs already. Duke is slightly younger than Melvin but has about 1,000 less carries. I feel like he's always shown skills but has just been on some awful teams that always are testing out at least 1 or 2 other guys. As far as cheap prove-it flyers, I can't think of many better options.

 

What's Kenyan Drake up to? Raiders always seems to have 1 or 2 interesting backs that are just kind of stashed and not doing much

Edited March 21, 2022 by Nelius

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

13 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Pittsburgh selected a 1st rd RB and their offensive line wasn’t established yet Harris still had a phenomenal season. A special RB can make an average offensive line look good. Breece Hall had back to back seasons with 1700 yds from scrimmage with 20 TDs. IMO, he’s as good of a prospect as Harris and Taylor was coming out of college 

 

You and I have a different criteria for phenomenal. Don't confuse a crap load of touches (most in the league) with a phenomenal season. Harris was bad in nearly every measure. He was around 40th or so in the league in both yard per carry and yards per reception for Rb's with over 100 carries on the season. 

[GolfandBills]

Hall would be a nice pick but not in the first round.  He’s just just dynamic enough for a 1st pick.  I’ve seen him ranked in reputable draft sites anywhere from early 2 to mid 3.  

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 3/18/2022 at 10:08 PM, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Doubt it. Gordon was available and they made a deal with McKissic. I also don't see them signing a name or anyone that takes carries away from Singletary. When Singletary was the primary ball carrier, he looked the best he ever has, closing out the season.

 

They're looking for someone who can be a good receiving back and a good blocker on some 3rd downs and when Singletary needs a breather. Probably closer to a Darrel Williams type FA. 

 

And Beane said he's offering opportunity to increase your stock for the following season over money now as "they're right up on it (the salary cap)". So unless Gordon's okay with taking minimum pay and a small role taking a backseat to Singletary - I don't see it.

I believe that’s what the Bills are doing also  Singletary did play well down the stretch except for when we needed him most vs KC where he averaged 2.6 yds per carry in that game. He also got stuffed on a couple short yardage plays in that game that were very costly . On that 3rd and 1 towards the end of the 3rd was especially crucial because we ended up punting and Tyreek flipped the field with that great punt return that set up the 9pt lead for the Chiefs.  
 

I think the Bills are making a massive mistake by not trading for Barkley or even adding Gordon or Fournette. Adding Barkley would give us the most talented bk field of all time with him being lined up with Allen . He can catch, run and is very explosive. Barkley can also line up at Wr and is a major mismatch for Lbers and Safeties. It would be amazing to see what a running back like Barkley can do in this offense and how defensives would have to game plan for us as well . I know one thing for sure he would make teams pay for putting 6 men in the box unlike the other guys we currently have that had hard time making things happen vs light boxes . 
 

 

 

On 3/18/2022 at 10:37 PM, qwksilver said:

I'm on board with B Hall but I don't think that the FO will go that route in the draft unless we sign a CB (no to Richard Sherman) and trade back from 25. Just my 2 cents.

 

Are you saying RB is a bigger need than CB? I think we need 2 CBs.

You forgetting about Dane Jackson ? He played very well for us after Tre went down. Dane was our best cornerback last yr on this team. 

[NastyNateSoldiers]

21 hours ago, Tanoros said:

I don’t see a first round rb offering more impact than a cb, iol, or wr especially when considering beyond just this season. The only way I see a first round rb is when the offensive line is fully established (ours isn’t), and the player is truly special. The value is just not there with a first round rb, and we need to be VERY conscious of getting impact players at a value. CB or WR offer the best value that early. 
 

A dynamic rb would be amazing in this offense, but at what cost is a rb like that worth it? At the cost of an elite shutdown corner on a cheap 5 year deal? No way for me. What about an elite slot wr? No way a rb is more valuable than that. We all agree the Bills can find cbs, so what would you expect from a first round cb? Probably something close to Tre White, and that would be some major ROI as far as cost is concerned. 
 

I just don’t see how the Bills take a rb in the first. Look at the moves they have made so far. They have a gaping hole at cb, with essentially 1 year stop gaps available, and they didn’t resign Levi for reasonable price. We Dane is a similar athlete as Levi. We also know that the way things are looking there should be 1-3 corners available at 25 who could fit the Bills. The signs seem to be strongly pointing towards a first round cb. 

I’m in agreement with not wanting another high round rb. My point with Moss, he may have more to offer in year 3. As a rookie he was the top rated pass blocker and the Bills do value that. Singletary came on strong in year 3 after struggling in year 2. My point with Moss was, it’s probably better to pick up a vet and/or late round rb and let them all compete at camp to see who the rb core will be for the season. Moss might surprise and his contract isn’t holding us back from taking another look.  

Elite Shutdown corner is not a given picking in the late first rd.