Ryan "Rick" Bates Watch Thread

[Green Lightning]

Well if not Bates who? 

[Paul Costa]

2 hours ago, RunTheBall said:

I think it’s pretty obvious Beane does not think nearly as much of Bates as most of TBD seems to.

 

He didn’t make a mistake, he deliberately made a low tender offer. He wasn’t trying to sneak Bates under the radar, he doesn’t care that much if someone wants to make Bates a high offer we don’t want to match.

 

I think Bates is gone 

I trust Beane. Many on here have no idea how the Buffalo Organization evaluates players or more precisely Guards  in this case. I have no idea either. Let Beane and Company just do their job. We are one of the best teams in the NFL in main part because of the decisions made by our front office and coaching staff. 

[RyanC883]

The trust Bean thing at Guard is tough.  We drafted Ford, resigned a declining Felaciono, etc.  Line was much better with Bates playing last season.  Perhaps the plan js to draft G or CB in rd 1 (likely BPa) and fill the other with a vet?  

[Bruffalo]

Feels really possible that they don't think Bates can replicate what he did last season if he's moved to RG, hence the low tender.  I think he was a quality starter last season in the 5 or so games but I don't think the Bills should pay him more than 3-3.5 a year.  I think they'll find some quality either late in the draft or with a FA that the new OL coach is familiar with.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

The trust Bean thing at Guard is tough.  We drafted Ford, resigned a declining Felaciono, etc.  Line was much better with Bates playing last season.  Perhaps the plan js to draft G or CB in rd 1 (likely BPa) and fill the other with a vet?  

 

I’m not sure what you mean by “perhaps the plan is” and  “fill the other with a vet”

 

One of our first FA signings was Rodger Saffold, released by Tenn as a cap casualty (they saved $10M).

So it’s been very clear from the start of FA that the plan at LG was veteran Rodger Saffold.

 

It’s not so clear what the plan is at RG, but since Bates has very few snaps at RG, it’s not clear he’s the plan their either

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, RyanC883 said:

The trust Bean thing at Guard is tough.  We drafted Ford, resigned a declining Felaciono, etc.  Line was much better with Bates playing last season.  Perhaps the plan js to draft G or CB in rd 1 (likely BPa) and fill the other with a vet?  

 

He played well in 2020 so hard to predict he was going to decline like he did.  Seems too that his problem was his decision apparently made on his own to lose the weight to become quicker, quicker to the bench.  Will be interesting to see if he decides this year to put the weight back on.   When he originally signed, the first two years was a good signing.  They originally traded for Bates so their judgement was good their.  Spain worked out well the first year.

[Sierra Foothills]

2 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

He played well in 2020 so hard to predict he was going to decline like he did.  Seems too that his problem was his decision apparently made on his own to lose the weight to become quicker, quicker to the bench.  Will be interesting to see if he decides this year to put the weight back on.   When he originally signed, the first two years was a good signing.  They originally traded for Bates so their judgement was good their.  Spain worked out well the first year.

 

Most of the O-linemen the Bills have brought in under this regime have performed well at one time or another. It's just that only two of them have been consistently good.

 

Dawkins and Morse have been the most consistent performers year over year and yet neither of them have exactly been pillars.

[Richard Noggin]

6 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

Most of the O-linemen the Bills have brought in under this regime have performed well at one time or another. It's just that only two of them have been consistently good.

 

Dawkins and Morse have been the most consistent performers year over year and yet neither of them have exactly been pillars.

What are you implying by saying "neither of [Dawkins and Morse] have exactly been pillars"? 

 

Outside of COVID or a concussion, respectively (and in different season), both players have been EXCELLENT. Especially down the stretch in 2021, Dawkins and Morse are exactly what I'd label as the PILLARS of the Bills offensive line. 

[Locomark]

17 hours ago, DrPJax said:

I understand your great point; however it’s not like he was just on the roster for a few games or just one season.  They have had plenty of time to evaluate him, and after he performed well, it looks like they underestimated his talent and continually over valued Ford ( Fina , who Rarely is critical of guys on the roster , said Ford has heavy feet and has not lived up to what you expect at this point) and they may have under valued Bates again with the lower tender.  So they got rid of Williams, Feliciano , and now will probably lose Bates’ and so far just brought in a guy for a year in Safford.  What happened to all the talk by Beane of protecting Josh,  as you stated?  This looks like a mess to me. Hard to believe they plan on drafting a rookie at guard to plug and play ; just look at Brown as it took several games of horrible line play before they stuck with him , mostly forced to because of injuries.  So do you think Beane meant we needed to protect Josh and he was depending on grabbing a starting guard in the draft ; just seems unlikely to me, and depth is still a major concern as we witnessed many injuries on the O line in the reg season last year. 
 

I think Beane made an error, as  Bates’ stabilized the line going into the playoffs and the line play unquestionably got better after he was inserted. With the low tender and losing Bates’ , you essentially lose three starters and gained one guard.  So at a minimum we are really questionable with depth now and it’s looking like because of the cap , they may go back to Ford at RG, and imo  that’s a disaster waiting to happen. I hate to see them going thru what they did last year with all the numerous changes in the line , when all this could have been ( and maybe still could be ) avoided by sticking with Bates’.  Yes, it was a limited STARTING sample, yet he gave them nothing to really be critical of or to base speculation that if paid he suddenly would get worse.  He is definitely safer than trying one more time with Ford.  If they lose him , I think it was an avoidable mistake on Beanes part and we are back to always working on the D line , but never doing enough with the o line to have a consistent starting group heading into the season opener. I don’t know enough about the FA from the dolphins but just judging their line play , I find it hard to believe they let some great talent walk , and I thought he was to take Bates’ place for depth purposes.  So it would seem like going in circles with the O line and it is forcing a need that Beane can’t ignore in the draft and goes against his preaching of taking BPA. 
 

I agree with you that they now can’t avoid addressing guard in the draft , and they are also almost forced into addressing CB as well.   That may take away from their ability to get an offensive playmaker to keep giving Josh , who you live and die with, some Stability at  wr / rb who he he could develop chemistry with for years to come. So far he has benefitted with Gabe and Knox ( took awhile to have that happen as they were projects in later rounds),  but everything else has been by grabbing Free agents and who knows how that will go. We hit with Smoke ( for a year of production only really) Beasley ( couple of good years ) , Sanders imo was a disappointment, tight ends have been disappointing ( let’s see If Howard bucks that trend ), Running backs have been very average so far ( this year again going with our second choice of FA rb who had productive years at least a couple of years back, so that’s another ?) , and our one big hit has been Diggs. Crowder could be good , but has developed injury issues and chemistry with Josh has to be developed again , which gives me ptsd after Sanders.
 

  My point is you have your franchise qb after 20 years of crap , and he is here 5 years now , and we have drafted 1 starting caliber  WR, 1 starting caliber TE,  1 possible starting Rb ( and I think we could do much better than motor ) 2 starting O linemen ( Dawkins / Brown)  as guys that can grow with Josh.  We have thrown a ton of FA money at the d line and used multiple high picks there and spent more money on special teams / Punter, various Cbs , various LBs  without hesitation, yet we are losing a starting guard because of a lack of foresight EVEN AFTER BEANE SAID IT WAS SUCH A PRIORITY!  When will they get serious about providing Josh with tools that will be here for more than a season , and use the draft to help with the cap and stop only helping the O by throwing new FA’s as stop gaps that require adjustment year after year.  Josh is how you win the SB ; look at how Burrows thrived with the right WR who has speed!  We don’t have that and now we may be forced to go CB , possibly guard o-line , early as we have no depth there.  You have a superstar qb , and the best you can do is keep throwing FA’s at the O ( wr , o line , rb) and I think you could argue they are placing him at risk of injury,  and not fully helping him become even better than he is now because they only look at tools for him AFTER  filling holes on the d and now they potentially have lost a starting guard unnecessarily.
 

 Maybe I will be wrong , and they match Bates’ offer and draft a talented Wr/ or Rb ( only the one rb is worth a 1 st imo) and go cb in the 4 th or later ( they have a track record of successfully developing cbs in later rounds , more so than success at developing wrs / rbs with later picks as for every Gabe there is hodgins ,foster, Zay jones, sweeny , Stevenson so far , moss, etc) and plan for the future by maximizing talent around Josh !  I hope so because we have done a ton for the defense ( whose limiting factor MAY be Frazier ), while every year Josh has been required to deal with a lot of variables , including a ROOKIE OC  this year and now again new o line men and a new slot receiver.  Focusing so much on the d got us a “#1” D , but we see where that facade has gotten us In the playoffs so far , early trips home ( but adding Miller is finally a great move defensively and no one could argue against that as a legit addition).    However, Beane , I hope does what he  promised , protect and give Josh all the support he deserves and that’s our  road to a Lombardi. The Bates’ issue and draft time will tell if it’s same old thing , or will we finally give Josh weapons to keep growing with !? 🙂

Longest post ever. Just kidding, but seriously if they wait until the 4th Round to draft another developmental corner then we have wasted another year. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Locomark

[Sierra Foothills]

4 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

What are you implying by saying "neither of [Dawkins and Morse] have exactly been pillars"? 

 

Outside of COVID or a concussion, respectively (and in different season), both players have been EXCELLENT. Especially down the stretch in 2021, Dawkins and Morse are exactly what I'd label as the PILLARS of the Bills offensive line. 

Difference in semantics maybe?

 

Dawkins has played 74 of 80 games as a Bill including a stretch of ineffectiveness last year due to Covid.

 

Morse has played 47 of 49 games as a Bill, was benched in week 10 of 2020 and took a pay cut at the end of that season to avoid getting released.

 

In my eyes they've both been good, particularly Dawkins, but not pillars.

 

To me a pillar is someone like Will Shields or Randall McDaniel... someone who goes 10+ years without missing a game... someone like Jason Kelce.

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Sierra Foothills said:

Difference in semantics maybe?

 

Dawkins has played 74 of 80 games as a Bill including a stretch of ineffectiveness last year due to Covid.

 

Morse has played 47 of 49 games as a Bill, was benched in week 10 of 2020 and took a pay cut at the end of that season to avoid getting released.

 

In my eyes they've both been good, particularly Dawkins, but not pillars.

 

To me a pillar is someone like Will Shields or Randall McDaniel... someone who goes 10+ years without missing a game... someone like Jason Kelce.

 

I'll split the difference. I consider Dion one of the pillars of this team. I don't consider Morse one. 

[4BillsintheBurgh]

13 hours ago, Paul Costa said:

I trust Beane. Many on here have no idea how the Buffalo Organization evaluates players or more precisely Guards  in this case. I have no idea either. Let Beane and Company just do their job. We are one of the best teams in the NFL in main part because of the decisions made by our front office and coaching staff. 

Agree. Will also add if Anderson and wildgoose had not been plucked off the ps we'd be looking better right now. So beanes process is good, we might need to shift our 53 man roster thought process in the future. 

[ddaryl]

16 hours ago, PirateHookerMD said:

How is it possible we dont actually know the terms yet? Or did I just miss it?

Terms always use to come out almost immediately, but this year its been a long wait for terms on most of these signings


I'm actually really concerned with the lack of strong movement on the OL. We gave the DL a huge treatment for multiple years and the OL really seems almost like an after thought

Throw in the lack of getting in a solid vet CB is also not letting me get a good night sleep

Edited March 26, 2022 by ddaryl

[HOUSE]

Bates is exactly the type of player that some team over pays for then he becomes a cap casualty within two years.

 

He may be back soon

 

 

 

 

[Motor26]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'll split the difference. I consider Dion one of the pillars of this team. I don't consider Morse one. 

Yeah, I’m not sure the details of his new extension, but they could draft a player to groom as a Morse replacement this year.

[NewEra]

6 hours ago, Locomark said:

Longest post ever. Just kidding, but seriously if they wait until the 4th Round to draft another developmental corner then we have wasted another year. 

Unless we sign a vet

[Doc]

1 hour ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Agree. Will also add if Anderson and wildgoose had not been plucked off the ps we'd be looking better right now. So beanes process is good, we might need to shift our 53 man roster thought process in the future. 

 

Neither Wildgoose nor Anderson were good enough to make the 53 and they barely played with their new teams.  I think the Bills would still be in the same situation if both were here as I don't think they'd be viewed as any better than, say, Griffin, Harris, McCloud or Lewis among CBs or Capra or Mancz among the OGs.

[MrEpsYtown]

12 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Neither Wildgoose nor Anderson were good enough to make the 53 and they barely played with their new teams.  I think the Bills would still be in the same situation if both were here as I don't think they'd be viewed as any better than, say, Griffin, Harris, McCloud or Lewis among CBs or Capra or Mancz among the OGs.

I would have kept Anderson over Feliciano when he was plucked from the practice squad. He had a nice upside and high RAS. He wound up starting a couple of games for Philly. But again I think this regime was loyal to a fault when we saw how long they stuck with players who weren’t getting it done. Trent Murphy, Feliciano etc etc. 

[Doc]

Just now, MrEpsYtown said:

I would have kept Anderson over Feliciano when he was plucked from the practice squad. He had a nice upside and high RAS. He wound up starting a couple of games for Philly. But again I think this regime was loyal to a fault when we saw how long they stuck with players who weren’t getting it done. Trent Murphy, Feliciano etc etc. 

 

It would have been a tough sell, dumping Feliciano for a 7th round rookie.  Remember he was signed by the Eagles after the 2nd game of the season when Feliciano was still starting.  And Anderson only got 1 start on the Eagles, the season-ender where they sat most of their starters.  I just don't think much would have changed WRT needing to find another OG if they had kept him.

[Paul Costa]

1 hour ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

Agree. Will also add if Anderson and wildgoose had not been plucked off the ps we'd be looking better right now. So beanes process is good, we might need to shift our 53 man roster thought process in the future. 

Valid point. It’s good to be that team now.