Logic Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Hernandez is the guy I like. Totally mismanaged in NY. I'm curious what makes you say he was mismanaged. I'm not disagreeing, because I don't know. Just wondering if you have some insight you can share. The article below from a Giants blog points out that he's done a ton to try to improve, and it just hasn't happened. Sounds like their version of Cody Ford. https://www.bigblueview.com/2022/2/18/22933335/giants-2022-free-agency-g-will-hernandez "He just hasn’t played well enough. Hernandez showed promise as a rookie, but the PFF grades he posted in 2018 (62.9 run blocking, 73.1 pass blocking and 67.9 overall) ended up as the best of his four seasons. His run blocking has never met expectations. His pass blocking seems to have gotten worse instead of better. Despite playing more than 3,600 NFL snaps, he still struggles to read and react to basic defensive line stunts. Hernandez switched positions from left guard to right guard in 2021. He also spent part of last offseason training with highly-regarded offensive line expert and founder/creator of OL Masterminds Duke Manyweather. The pair watched tons of film and worked on Hernandez’s movement skills. Hernandez also dropped considerable weight. It didn’t help. Hernandez surrendered career-worsts in sacks (7), quarterback hits (7), committed a career-worst 8 penalties (after committing 7 in three seasons) and posted the worst PFF score (55.9) of his career. The Giants have now tried Hernandez at two positions. He has worked with Manyweather, considered the best in the business. Four offensive line coaches — Hal Hunter, Marc Colombo, Dave DeGuglielmo, Rob Sale — have tried to reach him." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 The Bills went out of their way to trade for Bates in 2019 and have always kept him around because they were high on him. He got his chance in 2021 and performed well. So, we are supposed to believe they are simply just going to let him walk away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Who knows? There are reports linking him to the Giants, but hard to tell if they're press speculation based on coach associations, or substantial SAT time - Panthers:Bills :: Bills:________ 7 minutes ago, Logic said: Hell no to Spain. But the rest are possibilities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, njbuff said: The Bills went out of their way to trade for Bates in 2019 and have always kept him around because they were high on him. He got his chance in 2021 and performed well. So, we are supposed to believe they are simply just going to let him walk away? Yes, if they don’t value him at the same price point as the Bears. Also, his OL coach the whole time he’s been here is now gone, and that could be factor in what route they take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Logic said: Good Gravy what a list from Cover1. NOT Greg Tompsett's best work! Billy Price, Trey Hopkins, and JC Tretter played most of their career at C. There's usually a reason for that, and it doesn't mean they'll be good RGs Duvernay-Tardiff was seen as "needs upgrade" by KC. Why is a guy not good enough to protect Mahomes, "fine" with us? What do we think will change? Quinton Spain was a malcontent here and started on a horrid OL in Cincy. Why is that "fine"? Williams was OK here at RG, so while I'd like an upgrade, I'll grant him that Williams would be a "starting point" if we draft a rookie. Trai (spell his name correctly Greg!) Turner was a good OG in his time, would be his 9th season, might be fine Will Hernandez - has he played RG? The Giants whole OL sucked, and he seems like another 2nd round bust from that POV, but maybe he's a reclamation project Ereck (again, spell his name right, Greg!) Flowers a 1st round bust at OT for the Giants, has bounced around at LG - can he play RG? didn't stick at LG Tyrell Crosby - has played RT for the Lions, why do we think he can play RG? Maybe one or more names on that list besides Williams would be OK, but we'd all like an upgrade from Williams. 7 minutes ago, Doc said: Hell no to Spain. But the rest are possibilities. See above - disagree. Especially there are three guys on that list who are C. C get help on both sides. They don't necessarily make good guards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Yes, if they don’t value him at the same price point as the Bears. Also, his OL coach the whole time he’s been here is now gone, and that could be factor in what route they take. If they don't sign Bates, then IOL is in play early in the draft, cause how in the world can they count on Ford to be the starter at RG when he is already a proven failure there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Logic said: I'm curious what makes you say he was mismanaged. I'm not disagreeing, because I don't know. Just wondering if you have some insight you can share. The article below from a Giants blog points out that he's done a ton to try to improve, and it just hasn't happened. Sounds like their version of Cody Ford. https://www.bigblueview.com/2022/2/18/22933335/giants-2022-free-agency-g-will-hernandez "He just hasn’t played well enough. Hernandez showed promise as a rookie, but the PFF grades he posted in 2018 (62.9 run blocking, 73.1 pass blocking and 67.9 overall) ended up as the best of his four seasons. His run blocking has never met expectations. His pass blocking seems to have gotten worse instead of better. Despite playing more than 3,600 NFL snaps, he still struggles to read and react to basic defensive line stunts. Hernandez switched positions from left guard to right guard in 2021. He also spent part of last offseason training with highly-regarded offensive line expert and founder/creator of OL Masterminds Duke Manyweather. The pair watched tons of film and worked on Hernandez’s movement skills. Hernandez also dropped considerable weight. It didn’t help. Hernandez surrendered career-worsts in sacks (7), quarterback hits (7), committed a career-worst 8 penalties (after committing 7 in three seasons) and posted the worst PFF score (55.9) of his career. The Giants have now tried Hernandez at two positions. He has worked with Manyweather, considered the best in the business. Four offensive line coaches — Hal Hunter, Marc Colombo, Dave DeGuglielmo, Rob Sale — have tried to reach him." It is just a bad situation. He had played a ton at left guard and was growing into it. He was extremely durable and then essentially lost his job because he got COVID. He hits the bench, then flipped over the right side. He went through a number of OL coaches and played 4 years with 4 different centers and four different left tackles. Hernandez got blamed for Andrew Thomas' poor play as well. I think he was a little raw coming out, they threw him out there and didn't really do a great job of developing him. Then they threw him into this weird rotation where he was getting a few plays here and there on both sides. But the lack of continuity in the coaching there is what totally screwed up his career imo. Similar in some ways to Ford in that they did not stick with him at RT and got better players and he hit the bench. The Bills beleived that Ford was an impact RT and they didn't really let him prove it. Again, raw guy coming out, but the team didn't really commit to his development. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 21 minutes ago, NewEra said: Or maybe they have a plan….we just don’t know what it may be. If they didn’t have any other plan B at RG and had him penciled in to start there, they certainly aren’t giving him the lowest tender. Just now, njbuff said: If they don't sign Bates, then IOL is in play early in the draft, cause how in the world can they count on Ford to be the starter at RG when he is already a proven failure there. It should be, whether bates is here or not. They need to invest in young talent at the position. Bates was a UDFA I believe, which is fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yobogoya! Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said: If they didn’t have any other plan B at RG and had him penciled in to start there, they certainly aren’t giving him the lowest tender. If Beane is penciling in guys to start who aren't under contract, we need to revoke his "wizard" status ASAP! 😅 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logic Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Ereck (again, spell his name right, Greg!) Flowers a 1st round bust at OT for the Giants, has bounced around at LG - can he play RG? didn't stick at LG I don't really disagree with any of the nits you picked. Though Flowers -- a notorious bust at OT -- has apparently been pretty decent at guard, improving every season he's been there. Apparently a weaker run blocker than pass blocker, but not the tire fire that hew as at OT. Don't get me wrong, I'm not stumping for him or anything, but if it's a vet minimum, "compete for your spot" type thing, well... Edited March 24, 2022 by Logic 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEpsYtown Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Good Gravy what a list from Cover1. NOT Greg Tompsett's best work! Billy Price, Trey Hopkins, and JC Tretter played most of their career at C. There's usually a reason for that, and it doesn't mean they'll be good RGs Duvernay-Tardiff was seen as "needs upgrade" by KC. Why is a guy not good enough to protect Mahomes, "fine" with us? What do we think will change? Quinton Spain was a malcontent here and started on a horrid OL in Cincy. Why is that "fine"? Williams was OK here at RG, so while I'd like an upgrade, I'll grant him that Williams would be a "starting point" if we draft a rookie. Trai (spell his name correctly Greg!) Turner was a good OG in his time, would be his 9th season, might be fine Will Hernandez - has he played RG? The Giants whole OL sucked, and he seems like another 2nd round bust from that POV, but maybe he's a reclamation project Ereck (again, spell his name right, Greg!) Flowers a 1st round bust at OT for the Giants, has bounced around at LG - can he play RG? didn't stick at LG Tyrell Crosby - has played RT for the Lions, why do we think he can play RG? Maybe one or more names on that list besides Williams would be OK, but we'd all like an upgrade from Williams. See above - disagree. Especially there are three guys on that list who are C. C get help on both sides. They don't necessarily make good guards. Price played a bunch of guard, as has Hopkins, but they were both pretty bad. I like Turner as the vet and Hernandez as the young reclamation project. We already had an Erik Flowers and he blew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: See above - disagree. Especially there are three guys on that list who are C. C get help on both sides. They don't necessarily make good guards. I agree with your assessment. I should have said "a few from the list." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Not so fast. In addition to missing 2 games, Saffold missed almost 20% of the snaps last season. He needs at a minimum, quality backup. Second, who is playing RG? If it's not Bates, it might be Williams - but would Williams be a happy and motivated guy to sign for $2M or less? With Saffolds age, I fully expect them to draft a guard. That player ends up being your swing guard. In a pinch, Mancz has also played guard. On the Williams thing, he better be motivated to play for less than what he made the last few years, getting kind of long into free agency to be looking for money like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 23 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: With Saffolds age, I fully expect them to draft a guard. That player ends up being your swing guard. In a pinch, Mancz has also played guard. On the Williams thing, he better be motivated to play for less than what he made the last few years, getting kind of long into free agency to be looking for money like that. Probably waiting to see if anyone will sign him to play RT 42 minutes ago, Yobogoya! said: If Beane is penciling in guys to start who aren't under contract, we need to revoke his "wizard" status ASAP! 😅 Well he’s an RFA so he could have penciled him in if he wanted to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Any word on the numbers for Bates yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl2526 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 I think no news with regards to Bates is probably good news. It may be he was hoping too be blown away by an offer, but hasn't been. If he can only get a contract close to the tender offer, he might choose to stick with the Bills for a year and take the chance he could get a Super Bowl ring. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxum Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'd like to respectfully suggest that Josh should recognize that it's not his area of expertise to evaluate OL play - both on the Bills and around the league - or to value the contracts due players. Allen certainly would have input especially if he said he would make changes to his compensation to get linemen he wants. Money talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 So....who's the journalist who can get those details, hmmmmmmm? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 (edited) I think the Bills just blew their Rick Bates money on Taiwan Jones...😉 Edited March 24, 2022 by JaCrispy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 14 minutes ago, ScottLaw said: Nah… Scott this seems to be your problem The bills dont have to justify a damn thing....they are getting it done you however B word and moan at ever step 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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