Don Otreply Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: I know its combine and a while ago, but Bates did 28 reps on the bench and Ford did 19…Which is borderline pathetic for his size. So I would argue there is more power in Bates’ game. Just because he is athletic doesn’t mean he plays a finesse game. And just because guys like Ford and Feliciano are fat, doesn’t mean they are powerful. Just my 2 cents. Imo, our O-line coaches have had issues in putting the best guys on the field, and scheming properly for their skill sets, it’s been going on for the past three seasons. Bates is a prime example, iirc he has played as good or better than who he has replaced every time he has been called upon, not saying he’s a great player, but compared to who has played in front of him…, we have missed the boat on this guy for some time now, I’m thinking he’s likely gone. 2
ColoradoBills Posted March 22, 2022 Posted March 22, 2022 26 minutes ago, Buddo said: Personally, I would have stuck the 2nd round tender on him. With the level of interest he appears to have generated (at least 3 visits to teams), then if we were to lose him, we would be getting something back. Just to bring up this point again. IF Beane tendered a 2nd is a very good chance no one would have given that up for Bates. So the Bills have him for 1 year at $4M and have to try to sign him for a long term contract next year. If he plays well he will cost more than that. Maybe Beane want to see what long term deal Bates can work out and then decide if it makes sense. In the long run there is a chance they get Bates cheaper than what they thought it would cost them next year. Bates on the other hand might not sign a contract that he believes is too low. If that happens he comes back to BUF for one more year hoping for a bigger payday next year when he is a UFA. FWIW I also thought a 2nd round tender was going to happen but now I just want to see how this plays out. 1 1
YoloinOhio Posted March 22, 2022 Author Posted March 22, 2022 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Hmmm, I see your point now, but I'll have to work through how I think about it. I don't know who this guy is, but he seems impressed with Bates: On the other hand, he doesn't seem to have too much insight into the Bills roster: For those unfamiliar, James Daniels is a former 2nd round pick by the Bears who started 48 of 54 games for the Bears (had a pec tear one season). He just signed a three-year, $26.5 million contract with the Steelers. I think he’s saying that Bates would be an upgrade on the Bears over Daniels which is… a very hot take
MrEpsYtown Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 Bears fans acting like Bates is Bryant Johnson or something. 1
JGMcD2 Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 I think this is the strategy… a team will sign Ryan Bates to an offer sheet and Beane will decline to match. BUT then once the dust settles and NFL Twitter is celebrating this heralded FA signing… Beane will point out that they signed Ryan Bates but in reality his name RICK Bates… which means we maintain control over him due to the technicality. It’s really clever on Beane’s end. I’m pretty sure he’s hoping Washington will sign him so he can ***** them up. 2
YoloinOhio Posted March 23, 2022 Author Posted March 23, 2022 19 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said: Bears fans acting like Bates is Bryant Johnson or something. He’s no Ryan Groy!
3rdand12 Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: He’s no Ryan Groy! The FO might again be on the verge of a mistake to allow Bates to leave. McBeanes does make tactical errors. Really to get the young players in place this year behind Morse and Saffold a well. Bobby Johnson seemed to struggle. Agreed.
RocCityRoller Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Hmmm, I see your point now, but I'll have to work through how I think about it. I don't know who this guy is, but he seems impressed with Bates: On the other hand, he doesn't seem to have too much insight into the Bills roster: For those unfamiliar, James Daniels is a former 2nd round pick by the Bears who started 48 of 54 games for the Bears (had a pec tear one season). He just signed a three-year, $26.5 million contract with the Steelers. This is part of what I have been trying to point out. Anyone who can diagnose OL blocking can see Bates is a (+) NFL pulling Guard. It's not hard to see. I'll post it again.... watch 71 pull. Check out the view from 0:32 onward for the best angle Edited March 23, 2022 by RocCityRoller 1
Rocky Landing Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 3 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: Ford was drafted to be a RT IIRC, wasn't Dawkins drafted at G? 1
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 2 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said: That is a great point. With their needs they don’t even sniff Bates, but rush to sign Feliciano and Mark Glowinski. It is weird. I think a lot of these NFL OL coaches are totally fixated on players who use the techniques they teach and they struggle to see past that (think Juan Castillo and Vlad DuCasse). Feliciano was Bobby Johnson’s guy. TBH, part of it is there was a time when we were all saying Bates did not look as good as Feliciano or Boettger (last season? Preseason?) and I think there’s a “halo” effect where coaches tend to give the benefit of the doubt to the entrenched starter. IMHO, Feliciano last season may have been better at RG, but moving to LG and losing all that weight - No. 1
Rocky Landing Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, RocCityRoller said: This is part of what I have been trying to point out. Anyone who can diagnose OL blocking can see Bates is a (+) NFL pulling Guard. It's not hard to see. I'll post it again.... watch 71 pull. Check out the view from 0:32 onward for the best angle Not to take anything away from Bates, or Motor there, but Van Noy looks like he's asleep standing in that play.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 this Bears blog seems to have a pretty reasonable take on the situation: Bears Goggles On blog Quote A recent report came out that the Chicago Bears will be hosting free agent guard Ryan Bates for a visit this week. This led to many Bears fans and media overreacting to the news. Many fans said that the team cannot let Bates leave the building, others are touting his high upside already claiming he is an upgrade from James Daniels. Quote First, we have to address the do not let him leave the building argument. Ryan Bates is not a typical free agent, he is restricted so you will have to let him leave the building. The best that the Chicago Bears can do this week is offer him a contract. Bates, by rule, then has to show the Bills the contract and the Bills will have a chance to match the deal. They tendered him and if they chose to match any deal, Bates has to take the Bills deal. So, this tender allows Bates to see what his market is, and allows the Bills to pay his market price. If the team is surprised by what he gets offered, they can move on, but if he comes in less, then the team will surely make an easy decision to keep him. Quote The only way to sign Ryan Bates is to make an offer that the Buffalo Bills cannot swallow. That will take guts and strong belief considering Ryan Bates has four career starts and 575 career snaps. It is pretty dishonest to project off of those four starts that he will be better or at the very least as good as this. James Daniels has 3,321 career snaps. That is about six times as many as Ryan Bates. Bates may be good, but many linemen can jump in for four starts and not fall apart. Sam Mustipher earned a starting role last season based on seven starts. His sample was similar, but we saw once he was an every-week starter what happened. It is about consistency and being able to log 1,000 snaps of quality play. Bates has been in the NFL for four seasons and is nowhere near a snap count that can even be considered large enough to have a strong understanding of what he is. The Bills obviously like his upside, which is why they tendered him and gave themselves a shot to match his contract. Still, they let him test his market because they trust that no team is going to break the bank and make a crazy offer just to sign a guy with four starts over four seasons. Decent read, give it a look. Guy is taking some abuse in the comments though 4 1
MrEpsYtown Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: IIRC, wasn't Dawkins drafted at G? A bunch of draft people projected that guard would be his best position because of his height, but he was a left tackle at Temple and has been really good as a pro. His height isn’t a problem because he has freakishly long arms.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 Thought this was another good review of Bates starts: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2022/2/22/22945343/all-22-year-in-review-buffalo-bills-g-ryan-bates It is a point to consider that he started late in the season when the DL is dinged up and fighting fatigue from a long season. From what I’ve read about life on the OL in the NFL, it’s a long hard grind and nicks and dings do add up, even with top-class recovery facilities.
YoloinOhio Posted March 23, 2022 Author Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said: IIRC, wasn't Dawkins drafted at G? No - he was projected to possibly move inside to G in the nfl but he played LT in college and started here at LT as a rookie Edited March 23, 2022 by YoloinOhio
njbuff Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 If the Bills value Josh Allen's life, they will bring Bates back. Even though I am a BIG FAN of the Bills drafting Kenyon Green at 25, with or without Bates (remember Safford is 34 and on a one year deal). 1
MrEpsYtown Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 13 minutes ago, RichRiderBills said: Reminds me of the Ryan Groy situation. It is a bit different because he signed an offer sheet in LA to be a starter, and the Bills matched to sit him on the bench. So it sucked for him. Bates is going to be a starter either here, or wherever he signs imo.
Doc Posted March 23, 2022 Posted March 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: this Bears blog seems to have a pretty reasonable take on the situation: Bears Goggles On blog Decent read, give it a look. Guy is taking some abuse in the comments though He's right (except about Bates having been in the league for 4 years, it's 3, and having 4 career starts, it's 6 including playoffs, which is curious because the author counted those snaps in the 575 he mentioned). How big of a contract are you willing to give a guy who has 6 starts after 3 years in the league? Much less, do you front-load it to make the Bills unable to match it, with the potential he could be a bust? Again his best option is to play under the tender and cash-in next year. But I do wish the Bills had tendered him at the 2nd round level.
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