What to do at CB?

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah but not in round 1 or 2...good guards can be found in later rounds or even as UFAs. Patriots plug and play guards all the time that way and do just fine.

 

White will be back but likely will need a year before he truly gets back to his normal self. From everything I have heard he is rehabbing like a maniac to get back ASAP. I expect him to not quite be as good as he normally is next year, but return to All Pro form the following year.

 

But Tre at 75% is still better than most CBs at 100%

The same can be said for every position in the league.  Beane and McD should be talking about building the OL into a beast now that the DL is a beast.   When we lost last season, it was usually due to terrible OL play. We shouldn’t be ok with average to below average starters imo.  Not when it come to keeping josh healthy.  Josh so already so hard to sack, put a great line in front of him and we’ll be unstoppable. 

[billybrew1]

1 hour ago, GreggTX said:

While everyone is talking about RB's and WR's, has anyone noticed that the top CB still standing is a former 7th round pick that is well below average for a CB. Jackson has done well just to stick on an NFL roster this long, but do we really want a starting tandem of Neal/Jackson week 1? That thought really scares me. I don't want either of those guys taking even 3% of the defensive snaps.

 

I'm sure Beane is working on it, but the situation is severe. That would be far and away the worst starting outside CB's  anywhere. Do we draft a CB on day 1? I sure hope so, but that won't be anywhere near enough. We need to address this now. I don't think having 2 rookies starting at outside CB is the answer either. We also don't know when White will be ready, but it will be December at the earliest, I would guess. We also don't know if White will need time to fully recover or IF he will fully recover. I suspect he'll be his old self befotr too long.

 

Put yourself in Beane's seat. What moves would you be trying to pull off that are realistic? 

 

I'm looking at the Panthers CB stable and I could see a better CB than Levi shaking loose. Can we afford that? I also like Kyler Gordon, but I don't really follow college football. I know he's scheme versatile and a great tackler. Great short area burst. You thoughts?

After we addressed our biggest needs in DE and DT plus getting a fantastic LG….our thoughts turn to WR (Gotta replace Beasley and Sanders with some serious talent) and CB (we need a better D and outside CBs plus we have to wait for Tre.) 

I think we should go WR first as we are excellent at finding and developing CBs.

 

1. WR

2. CB

3. OL

4. RB

5. WR (returner?)

6. P

6b. CB

7. OL

7b. LB

 

So, this offseason we’ll have really upgraded both the O hitting WR, OL, TE, RB positions pretty well. And really upgrading the D at DE (plus are 3 young DEs should be noticeably better) DT and outside CB…

Our weakest spot was DL and CB so we did well there. Got a lot younger at WR and a lot better on the OL (I hope we don’t lose Bates for nothing…) Secondary should be our strongest unit on defense by a mile come December (knock on wood.) Best secondary in the NFL?  A fairly good front seven…Groot - Jones - Ed - Von,   Epenesa - Settle - Jordan - Basham…. It’s a ton different anyway!

Then a decent RB room. An actually good OL!   Not OK, not decent, but good. Great receiving weapons and the best QB in the NFL.

Sounds like a Super Bowl winning team to me….

 

Go Bills!

[Big Turk]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

The same can be said for every position in the league.  Beane and McD should be talking about building the OL into a beast now that the DL is a beast.   When we lost last season, it was usually due to terrible OL play. We shouldn’t be ok with average to below average starters imo.  Not when it come to keeping josh healthy.  Josh so already so hard to sack, put a great line in front of him and we’ll be unstoppable. 

 

True but the majority of guards that are starters in the league were drafted in round 4 or later. Doubt that could be said for any other position outside of kickers or punters.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Big Turk

[billybrew1]

32 minutes ago, NewEra said:

The same can be said for every position in the league.  Beane and McD should be talking about building the OL into a beast now that the DL is a beast.   When we lost last season, it was usually due to terrible OL play. We shouldn’t be ok with average to below average starters imo.  Not when it come to keeping josh healthy.  Josh so already so hard to sack, put a great line in front of him and we’ll be unstoppable. 

First of all, I don’t think our DL is a beast. Second, if we keep Bates we have five suitable starters but I think we go OL twice in the upcoming draft 3RD and fifth rounds around, and hopefully the the third is another homerun like Brown last year and those are the five. Saffold is a monstrous upgrade. Dawkins and Morse are very good. I think we do have a good line this year….

Good DLs feature two outstanding DLs at least generally. I’m not positive we have one. Von’s are best now and he is very good still but IDK if he is great. We really have no one else accomplished in any NFL way I don’t think…I think at best it is OK to good.

The young players really have to take a major jump for that to happen, imho… Plus maybe Settle is as good as everybody hoped he would. 
What we’ll have is the best secondary in the league by December or close to it… High pick rookie - TJ - Poyer - Hyde - Tre W.

We’re either going to sign a vet and draft a corner high or draft two outside corners, imho… So, we’ll have excellent depth. If there is one position we can draft it’s the secondary. We have excellent coaches there plus Tre Hyde and Poyer are like coaches on the field. It’s going to have no real weaknesses with a little luck, imho… that’s our strength on defense. That and having no real weakness either. At worst, the line will be adequate I think.

Offense is a whole nuther story. We have the very best QB in the league. Great weapons after the draft. Decent backs, a good OL and two, count ‘em two TEs! That’s the best offense in the league. Could be nearly unstoppable without bad injuries (knock on wood.)

 

 

[DrPJax]

29 minutes ago, transient said:

Ummm, Tre White says "hello?"

Haha!  Yeah I thought about that but after that first year as  white started  because our talent level was no where close to what it is now , rookies seem to have had a harder time getting on the field for consistent periods of time. Maybe with our depth being so bad at cb now , a guy drafted at 25 could be a starter. I guess it just depends how the draft goes and if someone drops.   Of course, with the success of Brown , it is proof a good rookie can earn starting time , but it sure took a while for it to happen and it took losing games,  an abysmal run game m and injuries for Brown to get his shot. 
 

You are right of course, as white started after being drafted at 25 , but it’s a different Mcd now , a different roster , and I am not totally sure Mcd will start a rookie full time at CB. He sure likes his vets.  Tre was drafted at a different time , expectations were much lower and Mcd had all the time he needed to allow development as he wasn’t expected to make the playoffs.  None of that is true now and the expectations are much higher from Mcd and the team is expected to compete for the SB    I think only time will tell if he will actually give a rookie a starting position with a lot more on the line now. He may have his hands tied tho and be forced to because of the situation so I guess a cb drafted at 25 could start for us , but  I still would bet Mcd gives a vet every chance  to start over a rookie.

 

 Hey , if Sauce drops to 25 or one of the top 5 cbs is still there , maybe they could crack the starting line up.   Like I stated tho , I think that’s very UNUSUAL  to land a PLUG IN READY ( based on mcds RECENT ROOKIE use )  cb drafting that low who they will actually start, and with Mcd I will believe it when I see it. 😀. White has been a great pic and I think that much talent is hard , not impossible , but difficult to find at 25  ( after all he turned out to be a pro bowl caliber guy ) so like I said , that’s rare,  wouldn’t you agree ?    I don’t think anything I said was off base that much as we have seen rookies have a much harder time cracking the line up now as it’s a much more talented roster compared to when Tre was drafted.   Good point about Tre tho ! 😊

[billybrew1]

15 minutes ago, DrPJax said:

Haha!  Yeah I thought about that but after that first year as  white started  because our talent level was no where close to what it is now , rookies seem to have had a harder time getting on the field for consistent periods of time. Maybe with our depth being so bad at cb now , a guy drafted at 25 could be a starter. I guess it just depends how the draft goes and if someone drops.   Of course, with the success of Brown , it is proof a good rookie can earn starting time , but it sure took a while for it to happen and it took losing games,  an abysmal run game m and injuries for Brown to get his shot. 
 

You are right of course, as white started after being drafted at 25 , but it’s a different Mcd now , a different roster , and I am not totally sure Mcd will start a rookie full time at CB. He sure likes his vets.  Tre was drafted at a different time , expectations were much lower and Mcd had all the time he needed to allow development as he wasn’t expected to make the playoffs.  None of that is true now and the expectations are much higher from Mcd and the team is expected to compete for the SB    I think only time will tell if he will actually give a rookie a starting position with a lot more on the line now. He may have his hands tied tho and be forced to because of the situation so I guess a cb drafted at 25 could start for us , but  I still would bet Mcd gives a vet every chance  to start over a rookie.

 

 Hey , if Sauce drops to 25 or one of the top 5 cbs is still there , maybe they could crack the starting line up.   Like I stated tho , I think that’s very UNUSUAL  to land a PLUG IN READY ( based on mcds RECENT ROOKIE use )  cb drafting that low who they will actually start, and with Mcd I will believe it when I see it. 😀. White has been a great pic and I think that much talent is hard , not impossible , but difficult to find at 25  ( after all he turned out to be a pro bowl caliber guy ) so like I said , that’s rare,  wouldn’t you agree ?    I don’t think anything I said was off base that much as we have seen rookies have a much harder time cracking the line up now as it’s a much more talented roster compared to when Tre was drafted.   Good point about Tre tho ! 😊

Pretty sure we’re going to start a rookie…. I think McD started two one year in Carolina…. Neither was a #1 pick. I don’t even think a second. I think it a third and a fourth. For the panthers a year after Carolina lost Josh Norman. They started off very slowly taking their lumps but by midseason the Panther D was excellent again…Or, at least, that’s the way I recall it.

I think we go corner in the second round. Or, at least go BPA between two positions (CB, WR)

But I think WR first and former second because McBeane is excellent at identifying and training secondary players and they can make a Star with a second rounder….

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Add a veteran minimum guy and draft CB#2 in the first round

[ALF]

51 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Add a veteran minimum guy and draft CB#2 in the first round

 

I would even trade up in 1st rd now that this year is going all in with Tre on the mend.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, GreggTX said:

While everyone is talking about RB's and WR's, has anyone noticed that the top CB still standing is a former 7th round pick that is well below average for a CB. Jackson has done well just to stick on an NFL roster this long, but do we really want a starting tandem of Neal/Jackson week 1? That thought really scares me. I don't want either of those guys taking even 3% of the defensive snaps.

 

I'm sure Beane is working on it, but the situation is severe. That would be far and away the worst starting outside CB's  anywhere. Do we draft a CB on day 1? I sure hope so, but that won't be anywhere near enough. We need to address this now. I don't think having 2 rookies starting at outside CB is the answer either. We also don't know when White will be ready, but it will be December at the earliest, I would guess. We also don't know if White will need time to fully recover or IF he will fully recover. I suspect he'll be his old self befotr too long.

 

Put yourself in Beane's seat. What moves would you be trying to pull off that are realistic? 

 

I'm looking at the Panthers CB stable and I could see a better CB than Levi shaking loose. Can we afford that? I also like Kyler Gordon, but I don't really follow college football. I know he's scheme versatile and a great tackler. Great short area burst. You thoughts?

 

 

"December at the earliest" is a really pessimistic prediction for White. It could take that long, absolutely, but that's far from the earliest it could be. He could be back to normal by the end of camp. That would be more like the earliest.

 

I'm expecting a low- to mid-priced FA and then drafting a guy in the top three rounds. Maybe even another in the late rounds. That's my best guess.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, billybrew1 said:

First of all, I don’t think our DL is a beast. Second, if we keep Bates we have five suitable starters but I think we go OL twice in the upcoming draft 3RD and fifth rounds around, and hopefully the the third is another homerun like Brown last year and those are the five. Saffold is a monstrous upgrade. Dawkins and Morse are very good. I think we do have a good line this year….

Good DLs feature two outstanding DLs at least generally. I’m not positive we have one. Von’s are best now and he is very good still but IDK if he is great. We really have no one else accomplished in any NFL way I don’t think…I think at best it is OK to good.

The young players really have to take a major jump for that to happen, imho… Plus maybe Settle is as good as everybody hoped he would.

 

 

 

 

If you think Von is great, then we have two great ones. The last half of the year or so, Ed Oliver was kicking butt and taking names. He is on the way up and has already been one of the best at his position. For less than a year, but he's been great.

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, billybrew1 said:

First of all, I don’t think our DL is a beast. Second, if we keep Bates we have five suitable starters but I think we go OL twice in the upcoming draft 3RD and fifth rounds around, and hopefully the the third is another homerun like Brown last year and those are the five. Saffold is a monstrous upgrade. Dawkins and Morse are very good. I think we do have a good line this year….

Good DLs feature two outstanding DLs at least generally. I’m not positive we have one. Von’s are best now and he is very good still but IDK if he is great. We really have no one else accomplished in any NFL way I don’t think…I think at best it is OK to good.

The young players really have to take a major jump for that to happen, imho… Plus maybe Settle is as good as everybody hoped he would. 
What we’ll have is the best secondary in the league by December or close to it… High pick rookie - TJ - Poyer - Hyde - Tre W.

We’re either going to sign a vet and draft a corner high or draft two outside corners, imho… So, we’ll have excellent depth. If there is one position we can draft it’s the secondary. We have excellent coaches there plus Tre Hyde and Poyer are like coaches on the field. It’s going to have no real weaknesses with a little luck, imho… that’s our strength on defense. That and having no real weakness either. At worst, the line will be adequate I think.

Offense is a whole nuther story. We have the very best QB in the league. Great weapons after the draft. Decent backs, a good OL and two, count ‘em two TEs! That’s the best offense in the league. Could be nearly unstoppable without bad injuries (knock on wood.)

 

 

First of all and last of all.

 

I don’t agree with much of your assessment.  

 

i don’t see how you can say we have a “good OL” right now.  Saffold will replace Bates@ LG….and Bates was better than Saffold in Pass Protection. Saffold SUCKS in pass pro…..did you know that?  If Bates leaves….. and it looks like that may happen, who’s our RG?  Ford?  Brown is a home run huh?  That’s all I need to know.  He’s good at times and downright terrible in pass protection. He drink beer during games….that’s been his best moment as a Bill.  That’s 2 of our 4 OL that suck in what we want to do most….but the OL is good?  Our OL got better once we started to use Doyle as a TE and started to use Knox to chip the DEs.  Most of our losses were on the OL. 
 

good DLs feature 2 outstanding DL?  Thanks for informing me of the rules regarding how to become good.  Our DL is beast.  

 

you don’t know if von Miller is great?  Turn on the playoff tape. You’re welcome.  Regarding the assessment of the rest of the DL.  Watch tape.  You’ll learn.  You’ve never even watched Tim Settle play other than 1 highlight tape you watched after we signed him. 

Yes, our secondary might be the best in the league if we add one good corner.

 

Yes, our offense could be unstoppable….if we improve our OL.  It’s not “good” imo.

 

 

[JohnBonhamRocks]

My best guess is we add one vet probably at or near the minimum and draft a guy in round 1 or 2.

Thinking it’s our first pick because the other will probably be WR, which is a deep enough class to get a good prospect in round 2.

 

AJ Bouye?

[N.Y. Orangeman]

Trade up for Roger McCreary in the 2nd

[MrEpsYtown]

I am still all in on Donte Jackson. It is a great fit. But I am guessing his cost has to come down. He is coming off an injury, but I like his speed and fit. 

 

If they plan of drafting one early, I am not opposed to a vet like Peterson. In fact he gave a great interview on NFL network the other day. I never loved Joe Haden. 

 

Kyle Fuller is a great fit. Good zone corner who is very physical. He is coming off a bad year, but I think our defense accentuates his positives and he is only 30. 

 

Nate Hairston and Rasul Douglas were guys they showed a ton of interest in pre-draft. 

 

My #1 target would be Jackson, followed very closely by Kyle Fuller. 

[Tanoros]

11 hours ago, GreggTX said:

While everyone is talking about RB's and WR's, has anyone noticed that the top CB still standing is a former 7th round pick that is well below average for a CB. Jackson has done well just to stick on an NFL roster this long, but do we really want a starting tandem of Neal/Jackson week 1? That thought really scares me. I don't want either of those guys taking even 3% of the defensive snaps.

 

I'm sure Beane is working on it, but the situation is severe. That would be far and away the worst starting outside CB's  anywhere. Do we draft a CB on day 1? I sure hope so, but that won't be anywhere near enough. We need to address this now. I don't think having 2 rookies starting at outside CB is the answer either. We also don't know when White will be ready, but it will be December at the earliest, I would guess. We also don't know if White will need time to fully recover or IF he will fully recover. I suspect he'll be his old self befotr too long.

 

Put yourself in Beane's seat. What moves would you be trying to pull off that are realistic? 

 

I'm looking at the Panthers CB stable and I could see a better CB than Levi shaking loose. Can we afford that? I also like Kyler Gordon, but I don't really follow college football. I know he's scheme versatile and a great tackler. Great short area burst. You thoughts?

Your jumping the gun a bit with your worries. FA just started, and not many corners have been signed yet. Additionally, Jackson is going into his 3rd year, after playing nearly half the season last year and not doing bad all. What makes you so worried about him playing, “even 3% of the snaps”? He’s already done more than that and did just fine. 
 

The Bills will bring in a vet cb or two. Probably a mid priced vet and low priced vet. Additionally they will draft at least one cb maybe two (or UDFA). I’m sure they draft a cb early in the draft and have the drafted cb(s), Jackson, and vet(s) all compete for the two starting spots. Then when Tre is ready to play again, they keep the cb who was playing the best opposite of Tre (assuming Tre is ready to go). 
 

I wouldn’t be so worried about Jackson though. He showed well enough for a second year, 7th round draft picks. And with the contract Levi got, clearly the Bills aren’t worried about Jackson AND they have a plan. We just have to wait to watch it unfold. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

8 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

True but the majority of guards that are starters in the league were drafted in round 4 or later. Doubt that could be said for any other position outside of kickers or punters.

 

All 4 all-pros last year were drafted in the 1st or 2nd round.

[TheBeaneBandit]

34 minutes ago, NewEra said:

First of all and last of all.

 

I don’t agree with much of your assessment.  

 

i don’t see how you can say we have a “good OL” right now.  Saffold will replace Bates@ LG….and Bates was better than Saffold in Pass Protection. Saffold SUCKS in pass pro…..did you know that?  If Bates leaves….. and it looks like that may happen, who’s our RG?  Ford?  Brown is a home run huh?  That’s all I need to know.  He’s good at times and downright terrible in pass protection. He drink beer during games….that’s been his best moment as a Bill.  That’s 2 of our 4 OL that suck in what we want to do most….but the OL is good?  Our OL got better once we started to use Doyle as a TE and started to use Knox to chip the DEs.  Most of our losses were on the OL. 
 

good DLs feature 2 outstanding DL?  Thanks for informing me of the rules regarding how to become good.  Our DL is beast.  

 

you don’t know if von Miller is great?  Turn on the playoff tape. You’re welcome.  Regarding the assessment of the rest of the DL.  Watch tape.  You’ll learn.  You’ve never even watched Tim Settle play other than 1 highlight tape you watched after we signed him. 

Yes, our secondary might be the best in the league if we add one good corner.

 

Yes, our offense could be unstoppable….if we improve our OL.  It’s not “good” imo.

 

 

Dude, drinking beer during games = automatic all pro. Seriously Brown just needs to refine his technique and he'll be fine. Get ready for a big leap from him. Staffold is a great bridge type. Another signing is still possible plus draft picks is very likely. I'm encouraged.

[BuffaloBill]

10 hours ago, Big Turk said:

We are almost assuredly going CB/WR in round 1 and 2, in whatever order. Will probably sign a vet also I am sure.

The wrinkle is that the Bills also need a o-guard. I highly doubt they take a g in rd 1 but anywhere thereafter is a possibility. At this point in time I would say g is higher than WR in priority. 

[Buffalo Junction]

30 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I don’t see how you can say we have a “good OL” right now.  Saffold will replace Bates@ LG….and Bates was better than Saffold in Pass Protection. Saffold SUCKS in pass pro…..did you know that?  If Bates leaves….. and it looks like that may happen, who’s our RG?  Ford?  Brown is a home run huh?  That’s all I need to know.  He’s good at times and downright terrible in pass protection. He drink beer during games….that’s been his best moment as a Bill.  That’s 2 of our 4 OL that suck in what we want to do most….but the OL is good?  Our OL got better once we started to use Doyle as a TE and started to use Knox to chip the DEs.  Most of our losses were on the OL.

In general i agree with this with a caveat or two. It seems with the additions of Kromer, Saffold and Howard that Dorsey may be going in a slightly different direction than Daboll; at least with run scheme and personnel packages. Time will tell, but imo Bobby Johnson failed to bring cohesiveness to the unit and develop talent. Kromer should make a big difference there and Saffold is likely here in part due to his experience with Kromer (two of his best seasons). Still, I won’t be upset if they bring in another starter or go Oline early in the draft. I actually expect it. 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Dude, drinking beer during games = automatic all pro. Seriously Brown just needs to refine his technique and he'll be fine. Get ready for a big leap from him. Staffold is a great bridge type. Another signing is still possible plus draft picks is very likely. I'm encouraged.

We’ve seen how one weak link along the OL can bring the entire unit (and team) to its knees. I agree w brown will be better….I just don’t know when.  Might take another year. Saffold for one year should be great for our run game. 
 

hopefully Kromer can be the big difference maker and we can keep him for awhile.