What to do at CB?

[NewEra]

16 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I know who we’ve faced. You’re missing the point. It doesn’t matter. There are only 10-12 good QBs in the NFL and you stop them with pass rush. 
 

Good QBs are good for a reason. They put up points and stats vs everyone.

 

And to counter your point as of today how many good passing offenses do we face next year? Maybe 5? Depends how you view Lamar Jackson and Kirk Cousins. 

 

 

 

 

Rodgers

cousins

goff

fields

watson

burrow

jackson

Mitch

Mahomes 

stafford

tannehill

tua x 2

wilson x 2

macnchz x 2

 

idk about “good passing offense”.  I think the bolded are good qBs.  I think Tua can be pretty good in a shanahan offense with hill, waddle and Gesicki. Hard to say if it’ll be a good passing offense at this point, but the arrow is pointing up.  
 

We play a MUCH better group of QBs next year when to compared to this year …..there is no question.  

 

[BillsFanForever19]

Draft Booth, McDuffie, or Elam (in that order) at 25 if either are there. If not, try to trade down a little bit to grab McCreary, Gordon, or Woolen and grab some extra picks. Or select at another position at 25 and trade up from 57, if you're feeling so bold and/or you're a big fan of Woolen (might even be able to stand Pat at 57 for him if the board falls correct).

 

Sign a mid-tier FA veteran willing to come to play for a winning team on a discount to fill in at CB1 or CB2 (depending on how quickly the rookie picks things up) while Tre is gone and to provide added depth to Dane Jackson alongside Taron Johnson in the Nickel for when he returns. Done.

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by BillsFanForever19

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m not just talking about next season though…. Continue to stack offensive talent… Crowder is a one year deal, who knows what happens with Diggs…. Keep adding playmakers offensively, because as I said it’s an offensive league, the more playmakers you got offensively the better you are nowadays. 
 

Your specifically talking about drafting for need. When you reach for need is when you get into trouble and draft the likes of guys like Cody Ford…. Not that the BPA won’t be a CB… just feel the dynamic WR moves the needle more in today’s offensive league…..Just look at the two teams and who played in the SB and how stacked they were at the skills position.

This has really been the core philosophy of Beane's methodology. Fill the holes in FA, and set yourself up for BPA in the draft, and draft for the future. But, there have been a few times when his sights were a little more specific when it came to the first round where he really targeted players-- '18 trading up for Allen, and trading up for Edmunds, and then '20 trading away for Diggs. In all three of those instances, the FA needs for those positions were basically ignored, while they filled the other holes. 

 

In this FA period, they have addressed QB, OL, WR, TE, RB, DE, DT, and LB. What's notably absent? Could it be that Beane/McDermott are targeting, a big first-round, trade-up splash drafting of a premier, future HOF punter???

[Richard Noggin]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m not just talking about next season though…. Continue to stack offensive talent… Crowder is a one year deal, who knows what happens with Diggs…. Keep adding playmakers offensively, because as I said it’s an offensive league, the more playmakers you got offensively the better you are nowadays. 
 

Your specifically talking about drafting for need. When you reach for need is when you get into trouble and draft the likes of guys like Cody Ford…. Not that the BPA won’t be a CB… just feel the dynamic WR moves the needle more in today’s offensive league…..Just look at the two teams and who played in the SB and how stacked they were at the skills position.

You make really excellent points here about contemporary team-building draft strategy. I have to admit I hit the "agree" reaction on the post you quoted

 

9 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

If Diggs, Crowder and Davis are the starting WRs and McKenzie is the ”gadget guy”, any improvement from a rookie (this year) would be taking opportunities from those players.  An investment at CB in the first. Is not only (an attempt at) filling a gaping hole, but likely a big step up in mid-term over last year’s starter (Levi Wallace) and the guy who was Wallace’s backup (Dane Jackson).  The only other position where a first round rookie might provide as big an improvement over last year is at OG.  But, OG is a position that works in coordination with the rest of the OL while CB is a position where they have high rate of 1on1 responsibility.  
 

Bad play by WR is an incomplete pass, by an OL it is a sack with risk of injury to the most important player (Allen), bad play by a CB is possibly a TD given up or an easy first down that allows another 3 downs for the opponent.

 

My first reaction to this post was, and I've left it in place, "Agree." It's true that the negative impact of bad play at the CB position can immediately result in points. In theory, with AFC offenses especially stacking insane talent at the skill positions, a hole at CB is more likely than ever to be exposed. 

 

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m not just talking about next season though…. Continue to stack offensive talent… Crowder is a one year deal, who knows what happens with Diggs…. Keep adding playmakers offensively, because as I said it’s an offensive league, the more playmakers you got offensively the better you are nowadays. 
 

Your specifically talking about drafting for need. When you reach for need is when you get into trouble and draft the likes of guys like Cody Ford…. Not that the BPA won’t be a CB… just feel the dynamic WR moves the needle more in today’s offensive league…..Just look at the two teams and who played in the SB and how stacked they were at the skills position.

 

This introduces a compelling counter-argument on both the micro and macro levels. 

 

The Bills, and all teams who are paying elite QB contracts, cannot count on long-term stability at WR. At least not right now. Stocking the cupboards with rookie deals seems more essential than ever. The Bill have some work to do on that front. 

 

Also, name all the elite CBs who played deep into the NFL playoffs (outside of Jalen Ramsey...who had his struggles). Defense is becoming more about scheme in the secondary and talent up front. Offense is essentially the opposite now. 

[MrEpsYtown]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I’m not just talking about next season though…. Continue to stack offensive talent… Crowder is a one year deal, who knows what happens with Diggs…. Keep adding playmakers offensively, because as I said it’s an offensive league, the more playmakers you got offensively the better you are nowadays. 
 

Your specifically talking about drafting for need. When you reach for need is when you get into trouble and draft the likes of guys like Cody Ford…. Not that the BPA won’t be a CB… just feel the dynamic WR moves the needle more in today’s offensive league…..Just look at the two teams and who played in the SB and how stacked they were at the skills position.

I think its receiver or CB. IOL is not the value there. In the 2nd? Sure. To your point, if Crowder, Diggs, Davis get dinged who is next? Tanner Gentry? And so adding a dynamic receiver and stacking offensive weapons is the right idea. But I do think that there is a chance that need and value match up with a corner in round 1. 

[Teddy KGB]

Draft one 

[DapperCam]

If there is a player they identify as a day 1 starter, burn some draft capital and trade up if you have to. I would rather they trade up vs reaching on a 2nd round talent at the end of the 1st.

[TD716]

Steve Nelson free agent signing and the draft another on the First or second round. Other options Peterson , Haden or Gilmore if brought in at reasonable price. Agree with trade up for corner if you see a day one, number one corner starter

[BBills_88]

Draft 2 CB's  through rounds 1 thru 4.

[whorlnut]

You don’t draft for need. Are you kidding me?  IF corner is BPA at 25, then fine. But I’m hearing a lot of you say it has to be a corner. That’s completely reckless. Not all the corners are the same. Guys like Gardner, Booth, McDuffie, and Stingley are the obvious first rounders. Gordon did not have good numbers at the combine and his stock has dropped. Elam has his issue and mccreary has absurdly short arms. Do you really think Beane is gonna draft a guy with sub 29” arms to play the boundary?  No way. Heck, McDuffie has short arms too. Dane Jackson has better measurables. 
 

All four of the corners I mentioned as first rounders will probably be gone. Do you still want Beane to draft one “just because we need one”?  Count me out on that. We can possibly get someone like Gordon or Woolen in round 2 and get a big upgrade at the position. It doesn’t “have to be” corner at 25. 

[RocCityRoller]

On 3/27/2022 at 2:14 PM, BillsVet said:

 

KC's offensive skill position talent and willingness to continuously improve it are why they'll be solid again next season without Hill.  Buffalo seems to poke their toe in the water there, but when it comes to the off-season (with the exception of Diggs) they revert into draft defense, over-draft JAG linemen and throw some UFA money/mid-round pick at offense.  

 

Taking a CB in the first would mean 5 of their top 7 picks in the McCoach era have been used on that side of the ball.  And they've used a lot of UFA dollars over there as well, likely more than on offense.  

 

 

I think you have to look at units, not just offense or defense. I do agree that too much FA dollars, and premium picks the last 3 years (round 1 and 2) have been on DL. It is becoming NY Jets like, when they kept taking DL early and missing. No premium pick has been spent on DB since Tre White. Poyer and Hyde were FA steals who rightly got extended to starter level salaries. Most other DBs were late round picks or UDFA (Wallace, D Jackson etc). Taron Johnson was found way down in the 4th. FA CBs have been guys like EJ Gaines.

 

DB, OL, WR etc have been ignored because of the swing and misses at DL. It is a clear issue. I hope the young 1st and 2nd rounders get into gear and start producing, along with the new load of FA D-linemen. They have to.

 

My biggest issue with OBD is how they evaluate, coach and develop OL and DL. It is taking resources from other units.

 

If Buffalo had managed their OL evaluation and coaching better, it might be in better shape. (sit Ford earlier, give Teller more time, start Bates instead of keeping him on the sideline, draft C Humphrey instead of Basham etc)

 

A line of LT Dawkins - LG Bates - C Humphrey - RG Teller - RT Brown would be young and beastly, and it was in OBD grasp.

 

Hoping Settle, Jones, Miller are a better crop of FA than Jefferson, Star, Butler. Miller should be a + over Addison, who I thought was the best DL FA they have brought in.

 

CB is a clear position of need and there are 8 or so 1st to 2nd round DBs available this draft before a fall off. A lot of teams will need to find WRs now, so maybe that will let a CB like Elam, McCreary or Gordon fall to 25. Maybe Beane moves up to secure one?

 

That said I think they have managed the rest of the roster well given the nearly maniacal focus on DL.

Edited March 28, 2022 by RocCityRoller

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

I just remembered Olijah Griffin. I liked him last year before the draft and was surprised he went undrafted. Maybe they can develop him like they did Wallace? That being said, I still hope they draft at least one CB with speed.

[Malazan]

I'm a believe in you draft WRs and CBs. They're too expensive related to production. Diggs trade made sense with his contract in place even with the likely extension.

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, RocCityRoller said:

 

I think you have to look at units, not just offense or defense. I do agree that too much FA dollars, and premium picks the last 3 years (round 1 and 2) have been on DL. It is becoming NY Jets like, when they kept taking DL early and missing. No premium pick has been spent on DB since Tre White. Poyer and Hyde were FA steals who rightly got extended to starter level salaries. Most other DBs were late round picks or UDFA (Wallace, D Jackson etc). Taron Johnson was found way down in the 4th. FA CBs have been guys like EJ Gaines.

 

DB, OL, WR etc have been ignored because of the swing and misses at DL. It is a clear issue. I hope the young 1st and 2nd rounders get into gear and start producing, along with the new load of FA D-linemen. They have to.

 

My biggest issue with OBD is how they evaluate, coach and develop OL and DL. It is taking resources from other units.

 

If Buffalo had managed their OL evaluation and coaching better, it might be in better shape. (sit Ford earlier, give Teller more time, start Bates instead of keeping him on the sideline, draft C Humphrey instead of Basham etc)

 

A line of LT Dawkins - LG Bates - C Humphrey - RG Teller - RT Brown would be young and beastly, and it was in OBD grasp.

 

Hoping Settle, Jones, Miller are a better crop of FA than Jefferson, Star, Butler. Miller should be a + over Addison, who I thought was the best DL FA they have brought in.

 

CB is a clear position of need and there are 8 or so 1st to 2nd round DBs available this draft before a fall off. A lot of teams will need to find WRs now, so maybe that will let a CB like Elam, McCreary or Gordon fall to 25. Maybe Beane moves up to secure one?

 

That said I think they have managed the rest of the roster well given the nearly maniacal focus on DL.

You had me until the end. Gordon, mccreary, and Elam would be reached in the first round. If one of them is there in the second, then fine. I’m actually in the camp that wants nothing to do with mccreary. His arms are less than 29” and no corner with less than 31” arms has ever made the pro bowl. That’s a full 2-2.5” shorter than most great boundary corners. 

1 hour ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

I just remembered Olijah Griffin. I liked him last year before the draft and was surprised he went undrafted. Maybe they can develop him like they did Wallace? That being said, I still hope they draft at least one CB with speed.

I’m sure they will. But it doesn’t have to be the first round like people are clamoring for. 

[JaCrispy]

Now that we have Bates back in the fold, I’m all for trading up and grabbing one of the top 3 corners...👍

[whorlnut]

31 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Now that we have Bates back in the fold, I’m all for trading up and grabbing one of the top 3 corners...👍

You realize we still have the need to get younger on offense, right?  Most of Allen’s “weapons” are on expiring contracts. Hardly locked up for success after this year. 
 

This staff likes Dane Jackson despite how most of you view him. He’s capable of being a really good corner. We can get another starter at the position in round 2-4. It doesn’t have to be round 1. I would argue that there are guys that are projected on day 2 that have better measurables than guys like Kyler Gordon and Roger McCreary. Cam Taylor-Britt for example ran a 4.38 with 31.5” arms. Tiger McCreary has 28.75” arms!  Gross. Gordon ran a 4.52. No thanks. 

[Pete]

First round get best CB we can afford, trading picks if we have to.  Then devote rest of draft to offense

[Dopey]

IMO go get Stephon Gilmore. He would be the perfect bridge CB to a couple of draft picks. Obviously,if we can afford him. Plus winning a SB with us would put that smile on his face that people complained about. Still can't believe people complained he didn't smile enough. 

[Lagoon Blues]

If he is there when we pick Booth will solve the empty spot wonderfully...still think its Danes starting job to lose.

[whorlnut]

5 minutes ago, Lagoon Blues said:

If he is there when we pick Booth will solve the empty spot wonderfully...still think its Danes starting job to lose.

I think this staff thinks very highly of Dane Jackson. Home grown and has two full years of development under McD and this defense.