Cutting Star Lotulelei- why not ask him to retire?

[HansLanda]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

There's still cap savings though.  If you believe he's sufficiently replaced - cut him.  You can split the dead money over 2 years if you need space this year.  

 

4.1 on a post-june cut is pretty good.  Anything you carry over lessens the dead hit in 2023 as well.  

you still need someone to play

[Matt_In_NH]

Make him an offer he "can't" refuse......

[LABILLBACKER]

55 minutes ago, MJS said:

Just cut him post June 1st.

He doesn't care about Beane or this organization.  He kinda checked out over a year ago. Just cut him June 1st and take your lumps.

[Simon Says]

1 hour ago, Commish said:

If we cut Star there's a cap hit and he doesn't get paid - if he retires there's no cap hit and he doesn't get paid. Doubt that he really wants to go join another team and keep playing, and I feel like he owes Beane a favor.  What am I missing?

Seriously, would YOU leave money on the table? Granted, you aren't an NFL player making millions. There is still a cap hit for the bonus already paid but not for salary that is NOT guaranteed.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, Ethan in Portland said:

Contracts go with the player via trade. That is why no one wanted Cole.  No one will want Star either

 

Someone would owe him - 6.1 + per game active and workout bonuses totalling like 600k.  You'd be getting him for 1 year and 6.7M, the 2nd year has a roster bonus of 1M but it isn't guaranteed until the start of 2023.  

 

Thats not.. a ton?  But it's a lot for a player who isn't that good.  Nothing changes anytime soon either - wait til the other guys sign and see if theres a market.  

[Simon Says]

Just now, HansLanda said:

you still need someone to play

Bills would still have Oliver,Jones,Settle, Phillips and a couple others. Most of the DEs lineup inside if needed 

[NoSaint]

57 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You're missing the fact that Star has $1.5M amortized signing bonus for this year and next, plus $2.5M guaranteed salary this season.

 

If he retires, the Bills can ask him to pay back $3M and decline to pay him $2.5M

 

Remember the Eric Wood "Retirement Conference" where he very carefully did not use the word "retire"?  He had literally millions of reasons to avoid that word.

and if we don’t take it back it’s a dead cap hit because it’s paid money.

 

this thread is not a good one

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Why should he give back money?  You get paid crap on your rookie deal so you can earn a 2nd and 3rd contract.  He was overpaid, so what?  That's not his problem.  

 

Team and players come to retirement agreements.  My point is Star doesn't have to give money back.

An agreement would be he keeps his $5.2M he already got in signing bonus.

He would just retire and not show up to camp and give up his 2022 Base Salary guarantee of $2.5M.

As far as the $2.5M he could ask the Bills to split it with him.

Well paid team players have done things like this in the past.

 

Of course he can say no.  My real point is if they are going to cut him after camp just cut him now.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Contracts go with the player via trade. That is why no one wanted Cole.  No one will want Star either. And trade or cut has no bearing on salary dead cap hit.

 

 

Cole was on the cusp of being overpaid, and for his age no one wants to extend him.  

1 minute ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Team and players come to retirement agreements.  My point is Star doesn't have to give money back.

An agreement would be he keeps his $5.2M he already got in signing bonus.

He would just retire and not show up to camp and give up his 2022 Base Salary guarantee of $2.5M.

As far as the $2.5M he could ask the Bills to split it with him.

Well paid team players have done things like this in the past.

 

Of course he can say no.  My real point is if they are going to cut him after camp just cut him now.

 

Trade market could theoretically materialize.  If you need the 4 milliion now go get it, but if you don't whats the hurry? 

[BillsfaninSB]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

He doesn't care about Beane or this organization.  He kinda checked out over a year ago. Just cut him June 1st and take your lumps.

This.  At least free up a roster spot for someone else who is motivated. 

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, dneveu said:

Trade market could theoretically materialize.  If you need the 4 milliion now go get it, but if you don't whats the hurry? 

 

I seriously doubt a trade could happen.  My thinking is why keep him around eating reps in camp that another player could get

the experience from.  

 

For all those who say he is worth the money this year I look at is this way.

He has a $9.23M hit this year.  If he plays out the year the Bills owe him $2.6M next year in signing bonus.

That's in essence about $12M in cost for his part time play this year.

Sometimes you buy stock in a company that turned bad.  Just cut your losses.

[Ya Digg?]

You don't think that's an odd thing to ask someone to do?  "Hey so uhhhhhhh, it would be like cool and stuff if you just like retired"

[John from Riverside]

They have brought in a ton of DT help.

 

I think Star gets cut.

 

Its a shame to because when he started out last year he actuallly looked good.

[todd]

As soon as a DT from another team gets injured in camp his trade value goes up. I wonder if Beane waits for that.

[Brand J]

21 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I seriously doubt a trade could happen.  My thinking is why keep him around eating reps in camp that another player could get

the experience from.  

 

For all those who say he is worth the money this year I look at is this way.

He has a $9.23M hit this year.  If he plays out the year the Bills owe him $2.6M next year in signing bonus.

That's in essence about $12M in cost for his part time play this year.

Sometimes you buy stock in a company that turned bad.  Just cut your losses.

Those numbers are absolutely criminal. Easily Beane’s worst signing, but he just landed us Von B'Vsean Miller Jr. so I’ll forgive this one. Hopefully the contract taught him something.

[Governor]

1 hour ago, Brennan Huff said:

Wouldn’t that be a weird thing to ask someone?

Not as weird as asking for a year off and then coming back still unvaccinated only to be sidelined again. Dude basically embezzled millions over the last few years.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Governor

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, Commish said:

If we cut Star there's a cap hit and he doesn't get paid - if he retires there's no cap hit and he doesn't get paid. Doubt that he really wants to go join another team and keep playing, and I feel like he owes Beane a favor.  What am I missing?

 

The only way he retires is if you have a wink wink deal to say, hire him on as fan ambassador or something for more money then he's due... of course, that's against the rules and is likely a hefty fine and a 1st round pick. 

 

So why do you want the Bills to lose a 1st round draft pick?

[MAJBobby]

1 hour ago, Commish said:

If we cut Star there's a cap hit and he doesn't get paid - if he retires there's no cap hit and he doesn't get paid. Doubt that he really wants to go join another team and keep playing, and I feel like he owes Beane a favor.  What am I missing?

Still the same. Proration will have to be paid. No different savings either way. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

I still hold out hope for a "retirement" agreement with Star.

 

That being said if he is a no go with that idea I feel they should NOT let him hang around camp only to be cut in September.

Release him now and give whose reps to some other players that may be on the team in the fall.

 

I've been a fan of Star but it's over for me.  Move on now and stop the $2.6M dead money hit for next year.

 

Yes but then taking on a $7.7 cap hit this year.    Is it worth when next years cap is expanding much more so a $2.6 mil hit is a much lower percentage of the total cap.  I think if they do sign J Phillips, (maybe was already confirmed and I didn't see the post yet) good chance he's gone in the final cut downs. 

 

Basically if they cut him now, they're saving $1.5 mil.  What if a couple of DT's get hurt in training camp or pre-season?  Keep him around for now, see how camp goes if no big injuries then let him go in September.  If you let Star go now and then have injuries, not likely they will find a player as good as he is basically for $1.5 mil which is the saving by cutting him now.  As far as reps for other players go, if the team does intend to cut him in September, they can keep him around but keep him mainly on the sideline and give him minimal reps and practice time.

 

He did start off the 2021 season playing well till Covid hit him

 

 

1 hour ago, buffalostu2 said:

Why not trade Start and a draft pick to a team with space in exchange for a lower round pick?  I would have thrown Cole in the mix here as well.  These are players that still have value just maybe not at their current number without a kicker.

 

I can think of 9.2 million reason why a team wouldn't want to trade for him, his salary.  The Bills may have to throw in a 2nd or a 3rd to get someone with cap space to take on that salary.  Throw in Beasley, now a team is taking on close to $16 mil in salary.  Trades to dump players have to be sweet deals for the team taking on the player or the player must still be wort hat least close to the contract value.

 

I recall the Texans trading Osweiler and his $16 mil contract along with a 2nd & a 6th round pick to Cleveland for 4th rounder who then cut him.

 

[frostbitmic]

We're kind of stuck with him this year, are we not ?

 

Might as well enjoy the shooting Star for the 6 or 7 games he might be active for and plan accordingly.