Is the Salary Cap real?

[ddaryl]

Salary cap is very real.. There are ways to restructure new and existing deals and move money around but eventually the piper will be paid

[Thurman#1]

5 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

I keep seeing this and its very much not the same thing at all.

 

I cant just choose to not pay some of that money i owe on my credit card and cut it. 

 

 

 

 

Nor can you choose to not pay some money you owe on the cap.

 

Once you have paid the actual cash to the player, generally in a signing bonus, there is no way you can not apply it to the cap. You can push the payment date further down the road in various ways, but it must be paid. No way around it.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Thurman#1

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

Is your credit card real?

 

Same deal. You can keep your debt revolving, you can take debt from one card and pay it with another so its not due this month but next month instead. But none of the debt goes away. The more you revolve it, the more it grows. As you continue, you'll be able to take advantage of some opportunities. But not others. The further in debt you get the more opportunities you'll miss on.

 

Eventually, the reckoning will come.

 

It's not very difficult to understand.

It’s nothing like a credit card.  There’s no interest on pushing charges into the future. And the cap grows every year except when the world almost ends like Covid.  By the time it comes due, the cap has doubled and the charges pushed into the future don’t compound.  

[CountDorkula]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

 

Nor can you choose to not pay some money you owe on the cap.

 

Once you have paid the actual cash to the player, generally in a signing bonus, there is no way you can not take it off the cap. You can push it further down the road in various ways, but it must be paid. No way around it.

Remember when the Saints were in cap hell and signed Jairus Byrd 9 years ago. How long does it take for it to come due?

 

Or

 

Find me a team that had to  cut everyone because the cap finally came calling. 

[Big Turk]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It CAN be manipulated.

 

Just as you CAN always pay off one card with another.

 

"CAN" isn't the important point. "SHOULD" is the important point. Should you?

 

Depends on how much you are doing it.  I think Beane has a pretty good handle on it and isn't putting us in a position like the Saints , Packers or Cowboys where they are massively over.

[MAJBobby]

I will use Daryl Williams as an Example.

 

Signed a New Deal at start of 2021 season.  

 

The Structure allowed to Cut this year (pay the Credit card debt (Dead Money)) and still provide Savings.  

 

Structuring of contracts also minimize that future credit debt that will come due eventually.

[T master]

I sure don't know where Beane & company have gotten the kind of money but i hope he keeps it up theses players are going to make a big difference & i'm glad to see Jordan Phillips back too .

 

I sure wouldn't want to play poker with Beane th mean is a genius with pulling out aces ...

[skibum]

It seems like there are enough loopholes that a smart GM can put together a pretty stacked team, provided that the ownership is willing to throw away a lot of money at times. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

It’s “rich people taxes” real

[Thurman#1]

17 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

It’s nothing like a credit card.  There’s no interest on pushing charges into the future. And the cap grows every year except when the world almost ends like Covid.  By the time it comes due, the cap has doubled and the charges pushed into the future don’t compound.  

 

 

Come on, man, it's extremely like it. No, it's not a perfect parallel. But yes, it's very much like it.

 

And the cap does not grow every year. Covid shows it doesn't. Football has continued making more money for a while now. There's no guarantee that will continue. It's like saying that my salary has gone up every year for 15 years, so it will obviously go up forever. That's one possibility. But it's not guaranteed. That's simply an assumption. And plenty of careless teams have kicked cans down the road that have gone far far beyond the increases.

 

And the cap doesn't go up nearly as fast as you're saying. Next year's cap is $208. In 2006 it was $102M. That's 16 years to double. Teams get in cap trouble way way before 16 years have passed.

 

Kicking cans further down the road is almost precisely like revolving your credit card debt. The debt disappears from the current year's total. But you haven't gotten rid of the debt. You just delayed paying it. The more debts you keep delaying, the more your future debt sheets will be clogged, and there will come a reckoning.

 

16 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

Depends on how much you are doing it.  I think Beane has a pretty good handle on it and isn't putting us in a position like the Saints , Packers or Cowboys where they are massively over.

 

 

This is very fair.

 

11 minutes ago, skibum said:

It seems like there are enough loopholes that a smart GM can put together a pretty stacked team, provided that the ownership is willing to throw away a lot of money at times. 

 

 

It ain't about just throwing money away. It's about eventually reaching a point where a massive blood-letting is necessary, like when we were forced to cut Bruce, Thurman and Andre, in one day.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Thurman#1

[Matt_In_NH]

You can borrow from future years cap to add cap this year, that is what is happening.  If you do it somewhat responsibly and the cap goes up (the NFL grows) then you can get away with it.  If you are a drunken sailer it will catch up with you in a bad way eventually.   Teams go through "resets", etc from time to time, the Bills did that in Allen's rookie year.  Fans and sometimes GM's play the role of spoiled brats who demand their parents go into lots of debt to have all the toys they want today.   This all reduces what is possible in future offseasons.

[BarleyNY]

33 minutes ago, SCBills said:

We all see this question.  Is it, is it not?

 

The answer lies somewhere in the middle.  
 

It’s real.  Also, it’s not.   
 

How could it be real is a team with Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs and Tre White can afford Von Miller at 6yr/120M!?

 

Well, in part because, as we all know now, the devil is on the details.   It’s essentially a 3yr/53M deal.   Years 4,5,6 “may” have some dead cap to deal with, but it sounds structured so that those dead cap hits are minimal, especially with the cap rising.  
 

Keep in mind, teams typically keep 14M in dead cap year to year.  
 

However, the cap is also real.   By all reports, the Rams came close on the money, but couldn’t get to where the Bills came in.   They tried as hard as they could to keep him. McVay reportedly on the phone with Miller 3x yesterday.  
 

Why couldn’t they get there on the money?..

 

Stafford, Donald, Kupp, Ramsey… At some point you just can’t make it work and will lose someone.
 

That may very well happen to us if say, Tremaine Edmunds balls out on an elite defense next year.   He may look like a generational talent out there behind this DL (wishful thinking).   But if he does, do we keep him? Can we?  And if we do, do we lose Oliver and/or Knox?  
 

The cap can be manipulated, but at some point it’s real… and it may become real for us next off-season if we want to re-sign all 3, but can’t.   Or maybe Beane works more magic.  
 

Either way.  LETS GO!!!  We’re not in cap hell by making this Miller move.  Beane has handled the cap beautifully, and allowed himself the room to take a shot like this. 

The salary cap is real, it’s the contracts that aren’t.  The Bills had room for one big addition this off season.  Kudos to Beane & Co for getting it done. 

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Come on, man, it's extremely like it. No, it's not a perfect parallel. But yes, it's very much like it.

 

And the cap does not grow every year. Covid shows it doesn't. Football has continued making more money for a while now. There's no guarantee that will continue. It's like saying that my salary has gone up every year for 15 years, so it will obviously go up forever. That's one possibility. But it's not guaranteed. That's simply an assumption. And plenty of careless teams have kicked cans down the road that have gone far far beyond the increases.

 

And the cap doesn't go up nearly as fast as you're saying. Next year's cap is $208. In 2006 it was $102M. That's 16 years to double. Teams get in cap trouble way way before 16 years have passed.

 

Kicking cans further down the road is almost precisely like revolving your credit card debt. The debt disappears from the current year's total. But you haven't gotten rid of the debt. You just delayed paying it. The more debts you keep delaying, the more your future debt sheets will be clogged, and there will come a reckoning.

 

 

 

This is very fair.

It’s a home equity line that accrues no interest and you don’t have to pay off on a house that goes up in value 10% every year.   If you go all in this year, it just means other teams will have more money to spend than you in future years.  

[Thurman#1]

26 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Remember when the Saints were in cap hell and signed Jairus Byrd 9 years ago. How long does it take for it to come due?

 

Or

 

Find me a team that had to  cut everyone because the cap finally came calling. 

 

 

The Saints had one of the top three QBs in football and probably the top five coaches in the game also. That team massively  under-performed their opportunity. One of the major reasons is that they were always going into every season desperately close to the cap. They could kick more cans, but they still couldn't bring in everyone they wanted. And then the next year they were again in a horrible situation right from the get-go.

 

As for your second question, no of course nobody has to cut every player on the roster. But plenty of teams have to undergo a Black Thursday like the 2000 Bills, a genuinely good team that lost in the Music City Miscarriage of Justice and had to throw away a lot of their best players to get under the cap.

 

The Whaley Bills were another good example. They were paying a decent roster like they were nearing the final year of a short window. It forced McDermott and Beane to suffer the first two years as they got the cap in line.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Thurman#1

[DCbillsfan]

I'd say it's real.  Look at baseball, no salary cap and same teams make playoffs year after year and same teams suck year after year.  Pro football with a cap levels the field and each team has an equal chance but you need a good GM and coach.  Dodgers, Yankees, and Red Sox don't exist in football. Yes, the cap can be manipulated but eventually you gotta pay.

[BuffaloRebound]

1 minute ago, DCbillsfan said:

I'd say it's real.  Look at baseball, no salary cap and same teams make playoffs year after year and same teams suck year after year.  Pro football with a cap levels the field and each team has an equal chance but you need a good GM and coach.  Dodgers, Yankees, and Red Sox don't exist in football. Yes, the cap can be manipulated but eventually you gotta pay.

You’re describing NFL socialism, not a salary cap.  It’s not the cap that levels the field, it’s the fact that teams split all media rights money equally.  

[SCBills]

32 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Remember when the Saints were in cap hell and signed Jairus Byrd 9 years ago. How long does it take for it to come due?

 

Or

 

Find me a team that had to  cut everyone because the cap finally came calling. 

 

But that's where the answer lies somewhere in the middle.  The Rams were clearly full court press trying to keep Von Miller.  If the cap wasn't real, they'd just match our offer.  I know Pegula's are loaded and are fine with guaranteeing money, but so is the owner of the Rams. 

[CountDorkula]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

The Saints had one of the top three QBs in football and probably the top five coaches in the game also. That team massively  under-performed their opportunity. One of the major reasons is that they were always going into every season desperately close to the cap. They could kick more cans, but they still couldn't bring in everyone they wanted. And then the next year they were again in a horrible situation right from the get-go.

 

As for your second question, no of course nobody has to cut every player on the roster. But plenty of teams have to undergo a Black Thursday like the 2000 Bills, a genuinely good team that lost in the Music City Miscarriage of Justice and had to throw away a lot of their best players to get under the cap.

 

The Whaley Bills were another good example. They were paying a decent roster like they were nearing the final year of a short window. It forced McDermott and Beane to suffer the first two years as they got the cap in line.

 

 

This is just false.

Bruce, Thurman and Andre were not cut because of cap.

 

McD and Beane came in and cut everyone creating 80 million in dead Cap. They were not and have not ever been in cap hell.

 

 

I'm done with this, enjoy constantly worrying about the cap and whether they will be doomed in 2-4 years. Im gona enjoy this ride. 

[Thurman#1]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

It’s a home equity line that accrues no interest and you don’t have to pay off on a house that goes up in value 10% every year.   If you go all in this year, it just means other teams will have more money to spend than you in future years.  

 

 

No. For a ton of reasons.

 

When a house goes up in value 10% every year, it doubles value every 7.2 years. The salary cap most recently took 16 years to double.

 

It's not at all like a home equity line. A home equity line is for one asset. This is about 50+ assets being juggled around wildly. A credit card is a much more reasonable comparison.

 

If you go all in this year, it doesn't mean other teams will have more money to spend than you. Every team, every year has the same cap. Your cap situation doesn't affect other teams. It affects your teams. And sooner or later enough kicked cans means you will have to cut assets that would be much better to keep if you are trying to win a title that year. It means you end up losing Von Miller even when you just won a championship with him. Or Thurman and Bruce and Andre. Or whoever. It ends championship windows. It makes your future less bright.

 

And right now our potential championship window is probably somewhere around 14 or 15 years.

 

8 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

You’re describing NFL socialism, not a salary cap.  It’s not the cap that levels the field, it’s the fact that teams split all media rights money equally.  

 

 

 

Um, no, it's the cap. Certainly splitting the media rights helps a great deal, but even so the Cowboys make a squatload more than the Bills or Steelers or Packers do. The cap is huge in maintaining parity.

 

[Buftex]

56 minutes ago, 17islongenough said:

Dude nothing is real

Nothing to get hung about