Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Posted April 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: There is no proof they wanted Eteniene. The people covering the Bills said he was never really in play for the Bills and they never looked to move up. DE was the want for the Bills. In addition the team that drafted him - moved him to WR not RB. Before the injury they exclusively practiced him at Slot and outside WR. He was not Thurman - he was their version of McKenzie. I don’t think Eteniene is a “Thurman” , just that McD is on record saying he wants an elite RB like Thurman. Just going off of what McD has said and his frustrations with Daboll, I would not be surprised at all if we draft Hall now. 1
Aurelius Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: It’s not a consensus that Hall is the best RB in the draft Agree. Definitely gonna trust the Bills scouts on this stuff. It also doesn’t mean we can’t get “our” guy in the second round. I’m just saying that I don’t think the end of the first is a bad spot for us to take a RB. I think it’s far from a done deal and the front office might not favor either of these guys. Breece hall though, as an overall back, considering his bonafide receiving ability, looks the part. 1
papazoid Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) not with our 1st rounder yes in the unlikely event he was there in the 2nd Edited April 20, 2022 by papazoid
Einstein's Dog Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 20 hours ago, Logic said: We can all argue until we're blue in the face about analytics, contracts, and draft value, but if the question "what helps the Bills offense the most?" is asked, then "running back" might be a more realistic answer than WR3/WR4. The question "what helps the Bills offense the most" in the short term, is the wrong question for the draft. The draft is for the long haul, the future. And the longer term needs to include finances in the picture. The draft is key in cap management. And cap management is key to long term success. At pick 25 you'll pay about $3M for several years. With an RB that $3M is looking to unseat Singletary at $2M while the WR3 is taking Sanders spot at $6M. If the WR becomes good he is worth Will Fuller to C Kirk money $10-15M, if the RB is good they are worth L Fournette money $6-7M. 3
NewEra Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Einstein's Dog said: The question "what helps the Bills offense the most" in the short term, is the wrong question for the draft. The draft is for the long haul, the future. And the longer term needs to include finances in the picture. The draft is key in cap management. And cap management is key to long term success. At pick 25 you'll pay about $3M for several years. With an RB that $3M is looking to unseat Singletary at $2M while the WR3 is taking Sanders spot at $6M. If the WR becomes good he is worth Will Fuller to C Kirk money $10-15M, if the RB is good they are worth L Fournette money $6-7M. Exactly. Rb might have the biggest impact in 2022….but likely not in 2023+. Certainly not 2026+ When Josh allen will only be in year 9.
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Posted April 20, 2022 21 hours ago, Logic said: The question that I have -- and I don't know the answer, I'm just asking -- is: Is Breece Hall as good as, say, Jonathan Taylor? Because if he is, in my opinion, the whole "1st round RB is a bad value" argument goes out the window. To me, there's no denying that adding a Jonathan Taylor level running back talent to this offense would be the single best/fastest way to upgrade it, more so than adding a WR3/WR4. When opposing teams start going two-high all day long against the Bills next year, a dynamic running back will help a lot more than a slot receiver. We can all argue until we're blue in the face about analytics, contracts, and draft value, but if the question "what helps the Bills offense the most?" is asked, then "running back" might be a more realistic answer than WR3/WR4. And for what it's worth, Brandon Beane has plainly stated that he doesn't subscribe to the idea of "never take a running back in the 1st round", and that if the Bills ever view a running back as the BPA in round one, they won't hesitate to draft him. I'm just pointing this out because so many in the draft community are anti 1st round RB, but our GM doesn't seem to be one of these people. That's notable. Oh, and one more thing: Breece Hall is just 20 years old. Brandon Beane loves drafting young players with his 1sts. Absolutely fantastic take. This is exactly where I’m currently at. A player like Hall is a logical pick to help the offensive strategy to keep defenses honest. It’s the spot that makes the most sense for this team as far as immediate improvement. 5 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: The question "what helps the Bills offense the most" in the short term, is the wrong question for the draft. The draft is for the long haul, the future. And the longer term needs to include finances in the picture. The draft is key in cap management. And cap management is key to long term success. At pick 25 you'll pay about $3M for several years. With an RB that $3M is looking to unseat Singletary at $2M while the WR3 is taking Sanders spot at $6M. If the WR becomes good he is worth Will Fuller to C Kirk money $10-15M, if the RB is good they are worth L Fournette money $6-7M. This is generally true. But this offense doesn’t need a Will Fuller or C Kirk. It needs an elite RB to make teams play more 8 in the box. We have to stop defenses from playing 2 high shell. A talented RB is the only thing that will do that. An elite RB is what this offense needs to give Allen multiple avenues to win. 1
NewEra Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Absolutely fantastic take. This is exactly where I’m currently at. A player like Hall is a logical pick to help the offensive strategy to keep defenses honest. It’s the spot that makes the most sense for this team as far as immediate improvement. For 2022. Yes….already stated 100 times. When using the 25th pick in the draft, making a selection based on one seasons immediate impact is 👎🏻
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Posted April 20, 2022 1 minute ago, NewEra said: For 2022. Yes….already stated 100 times. When using the 25th pick in the draft, making a selection based on one seasons immediate impact is 👎🏻 Not only for 2022, likely for 2023 and 2024 as well. It fits the Von Miller window. Honestly answer me this question. Other teams defenses play a lot of 2 high shell against Allen. How do we get teams to stop doing this so Allen has more openings? The only way to do that is to have a running threat that commands 8 in the box at times. I’m not saying Hall is 100% that RB, but he gives us the best available chance at that. It’s a logical pick, and helps us win right now. If we win 1 or 2 Super Bowls with Hall, nobody is going to care about 2026 Allen. It will be gravy at that point. 1
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Posted April 20, 2022 If you guys don’t want Hall, fine. But would you guys be open for a trade for an elite RB? Would you give up top picks for a player like Kamara? Can you imagine this offense with a RB line Kamara. Holy flying F. Talk about unstoppable.
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Posted April 20, 2022 How can anyone dislike that comment. It’s a fact that teams play 2 high shell against us. It’s a fact that an elite RB is the only thing that will get teams to stop doing that. Drafting a WR2/3 does nothing to prevent teams from not playing 2 high shell. Sorry, as much as people are against drafting an elite RB or trading for one, it’s needed to provide more avenues for Allen. 2
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Posted April 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Beach said: we were all 16 once Lol nobody has answered how are we supposed to get defenses from playing 2 high shell. I’m waiting. The answers are already in this thread. Either draft Hall or trade for an elite RB of your choice. Drafting will be cheaper. 1 1 1
Rochesterfan Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: How can anyone dislike that comment. It’s a fact that teams play 2 high shell against us. It’s a fact that an elite RB is the only thing that will get teams to stop doing that. Drafting a WR2/3 does nothing to prevent teams from not playing 2 high shell. Sorry, as much as people are against drafting an elite RB or trading for one, it’s needed to provide more avenues for Allen. That is complete BS. Mahomes and Josh both showed the most effective way to handle a 2 high safety look is to be patient and use the open WRs and TEs that are short and wide to stretch the coverage. It can also involve a RB/FB in the passing game as they used Singletary in quick passes. The difference was in YPR - as the RBs did not get as many yards as the receivers and therefore were less effective at moving the chains. The one thing we have seen is that an effective running game does not necessarily force a team out of playing 2 high safeties because they would prefer to see you have to slowly move the ball and see if you get impatient. They then pack in more near the goal line and try to hold you to 3. There is not a team in this league that would not love to see the Bills run the ball more and will do everything to invite that as much as possible. Elite RBs have not been a difference to any SB winners in a long time. The RBs of teams in the SB have been cast offs and low value guys - that can get you yards, but only need very limited touches. 1 1
Draconator Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 I voted no in the poll, not because I don't like Hall, (I do). I voted no because of the OP and my personal thoughts of him. Maybe I should start a poll for people to guess what my thoughts are of the OP? 1 1
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Posted April 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said: That is complete BS. Mahomes and Josh both showed the most effective way to handle a 2 high safety look is to be patient and use the open WRs and TEs that are short and wide to stretch the coverage. It can also involve a RB/FB in the passing game as they used Singletary in quick passes. The difference was in YPR - as the RBs did not get as many yards as the receivers and therefore were less effective at moving the chains. The one thing we have seen is that an effective running game does not necessarily force a team out of playing 2 high safeties because they would prefer to see you have to slowly move the ball and see if you get impatient. They then pack in more near the goal line and try to hold you to 3. There is not a team in this league that would not love to see the Bills run the ball more and will do everything to invite that as much as possible. Elite RBs have not been a difference to any SB winners in a long time. The RBs of teams in the SB have been cast offs and low value guys - that can get you yards, but only need very limited touches. It’s not BS though. Nobody is saying take the ball out of Allen’s hands. Having a back like Hall just standing in the backfield will make teams play differently than they are now. Hall is a better pass catcher, and faster than Singletary. He would get greater YAC than Singletary. It’s the obvious pick and hopefully Beane pulls the trigger. 3 minutes ago, Draconator said: I voted no in the poll, not because I don't like Hall, (I do). I voted no because of the OP and my personal thoughts of him. Maybe I should start a poll for people to guess what my thoughts are of the OP? I’m sorry you feel that way. I hope you have a great day.
NewEra Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: It’s not BS though. Nobody is saying take the ball out of Allen’s hands. Having a back like Hall just standing in the backfield will make teams play differently than they are now. Hall is a better pass catcher, and faster than Singletary. He would get greater YAC than Singletary. It’s the obvious pick and hopefully Beane pulls the trigger. I’m sorry you feel that way. I hope you have a great day. “It’s a fact that an elite RB is the only thing that will get teams to stop doing that” That is complete BS. Edited April 20, 2022 by NewEra
Sestak4ever Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 I’m not against taking a running back with the 25th pick, whether it’s Hall or someone else, however there is no guarantee that they will be good enough to alter defenses against us.
Einstein's Dog Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 2 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said: This is generally true. But this offense doesn’t need a Will Fuller or C Kirk. It needs an elite RB to make teams play more 8 in the box. We have to stop defenses from playing 2 high shell. A talented RB is the only thing that will do that. An elite RB is what this offense needs to give Allen multiple avenues to win. This team needs premium positions under rookie contracts. The days of buying $7M WR3's are coming to an end. We need to home grow them. This team is not built to rely on the RB and should keep the process of using a lower draft pick to fill the need. If Hall or Walker is there in the 2nd the Bills should consider it.
CapeBreton Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 Hmm where does Breece Hall fall? I’m going to guess the Bills don’t have a first round grade on him.
Buffalo716 Posted April 20, 2022 Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, NewEra said: “It’s a fact that an elite RB is the only thing that will get teams to stop doing that” That is complete BS. He he also disagreed that Devin singletary would look good behind the colts offensive line I don't disagree that Breece Hall and Taylor are better.. but singletary took shady's job as a rookie and is still 4.6 yards per carry career He isn't a scrub Some stats that show our offensive line is a bigger problem... As a rookie singletary faced a stacked box on 8% of carries... He averaged 5.6 yards per carry on that stacked box... Very good Last year on a stacked box.. which was only 3% of the time Singletary averaged 1.8 yards per carry Singletary didn't become 5 yards per carry worse.. our line really struggles at blocking a stacked box On a base front. Singletary still averages 5.3 yards per carry last year... On a light box 4.4... we aren't great at blocking a light box either Singletary was 19th in touches , but 13th in evaded tackles.. he had to make a lot of guys miss at all levels We struggle to run block Edited April 20, 2022 by Buffalo716 3
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