Chandler Jones signing with Raiders - 3 years, $52.5 mill

[thenorthremembers]

5 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Hmmm

Let's try this exercise

 

Reggie White

Deion Sanders

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Drew Breese

Bryce Paup 

 

But you are correct Free agent signings never make a difference

 

 

 

Never said never.  I dont speak in absolutes.   Good job seeking out the anomalies and hall of famers, but this list doesnt change my mind in the least.   Also, I dont know of this Drew Breese guy, is he any good?

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

This sums it up perfectly.  I truly hope none of the people acting like this are in charge of other people at work, or God forbid parents of children.

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Lol Beane. I guess scraps it is. 

Cap has been mildly mismanaged. Lots of Ho hum talent few stars or difference makers…

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, GolfandBills said:

You do realize there’s still free agency and 9 picks in the draft?  Pushing the panic button right now seems a little silly.  

 

I'm not relying on a rookie WR to come in and produce right off the bat.  This team is ready to win now.  

 

No panic button, just pointing out the obvious.

[Brand J]

1 minute ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Cap has been mildly mismanaged. Lots of Ho hum talent few stars or difference makers…

We have and still continue to overpay for “good.”

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, JayBaller10 said:

We have and still continue to overpay for “good.”

We don’t draft well enough to be great. Thankfully we hit on Allen and a few others, but we are still missing high end talent at quite a few positions. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

Never said never.  I dont speak in absolutes.   Good job seeking out the anomalies and hall of famers, but this list doesnt change my mind in the least.   Also, I dont know of this Drew Breese guy, is he any good?

You asked to do you a favor and look up free agent difference makers.  These were just off the top of my head.  And you are correct my typing is terrible.

 

Let me change the argument.  I'm trying to maintain a respectful conversation.  Beane made Morse the highest paid center in the league when he signed him from KC.  Were you against that signing?  I'm trying to understand when the dollars spent equal a difference maker and when they do not?  Morse was relatively young but was rated the 15th best center in the league with a concussion history.  He ended up being a solid starter but not a great one.  So was that a hit or a miss in your mind as a free agent signing?  

Edited March 16, 2022 by Ethan in Portland

[Milanos Milano]

We had Thurman and Kelly. Allen needs his OJ/Thurman type of running back that can take over games on their own right when called upon. That will just open up the passing game all that much. Until we seriously get big time talent at RB, we will never hit the next phase. 

[DrDawkinstein]

19 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Hmmm

Let's try this exercise

 

Reggie White

Deion Sanders

Tom Brady

Peyton Manning

Drew Breese

Bryce Paup 

 

But you are correct Free agent signings never make a difference

 

 

 

 

So a list of 5 Hall of Famers, some going back 30 years, and Bryce Paup. (Did Bryce Paup get us to a Super Bowl?)

 

Not sure that's really making the point you want to.

[Allen2Moulds]

I'm usually not negative, I love my Bills, but I had to get this off my chest.

 

We've done really well in some areas of this team, but have really whiffed on the DLine. In back to back years we invested a 2nd round pick on a guy, only for that guy to be mostly inactive. We've also blown a decent amount of money, as others point out, on some mediocre talent at best. 

 

We've spent about 10M on guys like Addison, and wasted about 7M more on guys like Butler and Murphy. Im not even talking about the initial contracts either. In both cases, these guys would be inactive the year before, and we would assume they we're obvious cut candidates, only to be brought back for another year.   If you do the math, it's Chandler Jones money that we've wasted.

 

We should of had money rolling over, not be in over the cap. Josh's figures haven't even kicked in yet. That concerns me.

 

At the end of the season, I blamed McDermott, but now I'm beginning to think more and more, that it's the lack of talent on Defense. Hyde, Poyer, and Tre we're all signed/drafted before Beane came on. 

 

He hit a grand slam with Allen, no doubt there, but he needs to start connecting a bit more in the trenches. Epenesa, Basham, and Ford were all 2nd round picks, and the return investment there, is really concerning.

 

Maybe Beane hands the keys to someone else, at least in the 2nd round.

 

Josh Allen has made up for some of this team's deficiencies, but we need to improve a bit more around him. Mainly in the trenches.

[Tanoros]

5 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Cap has been mildly mismanaged. Lots of Ho hum talent few stars or difference makers…

What bad contracts contributed to the mild mismanagement of the cap? As far as FA signings the Star signing was probably the worst, but more so because of his c19 opt out year (we’d be able to move on with very little hit this year if not for that). 
 

The Spain resigning wasn’t great, and the Williams resigning (in hindsight, but at the time, it was the right call). 
 

Beane hasn’t really paid big bucks for FA’s and he has generally resigned our own to reasonable contracts. 
 

I really don’t understand where a comment like yours if coming from? The Bills FO is more about developing talent that is drafted, and they won’t all be star players. But, they have done a good job drafting overall and we are only going into year 6, but year 5 of Beane as GM. 
 

Personally, I feel like Beane and the Bills FO have done a fantastic job! They don’t typically overlay for FA, mostly by avoiding the big ticket names, they draft well, and are very reasonable with contracts. They even had to adjust course with the c19 impacts to the salary cap. 
 

We are one of the top teams in the league, and our cap situation isn’t bad at. At this point, our key to success is to continue drafting well, having starters on rookie contracts and, and savvy via cost benefit analysis in regards to FA signings (in other words, don’t overpay for the big names because it’s rare that they play up to their cost). 

[Buffalosouth]

Getting that money. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

So a list of 5 Hall of Famers, some going back 30 years, and Bryce Paup. (Did Bryce Paup get us to a Super Bowl?)

 

Not sure that's really making the point you want to.

Paup was defensive Player of the Year. I would define that as a difference maker.  They were all free agents difference makers that won SuperBowls with their new teams.  There are others that had great performances with their new teams.  Rod Woodson.  Shannon Sharpe.    

 

Heck you can make an argument any player that becomes a consistent starter signed via free agency is a "difference maker".   I posed the question back to the poster, what do you make of the Morse signing.  Beane made him the highest paid center in the league, and he has been solid as a Bill but not spectacular.  Was that a difference maker signing or not?  Certainly was high dollars.

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Wayne Cubed said:

Damnnnnnnn the AFC West just is going to cannibalise itself haha.

 

To Cap Hell for all of them trying to keep up!   😋

[Nihilarian]

10 sacks last season and 5 came in one game. Not gonna cry over this.

 

Like with Antonio Brown and JJ Watt...sometimes things happen and it turns out okay. 

Vonn Miller anyone?

[Tanoros]

11 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I'm usually not negative, I love my Bills, but I had to get this off my chest.

 

We've done really well in some areas of this team, but have really whiffed on the DLine. In back to back years we invested a 2nd round pick on a guy, only for that guy to be mostly inactive. We've also blown a decent amount of money, as others point out, on some mediocre talent at best. 

 

We've spent about 10M on guys like Addison, and wasted about 7M more on guys like Butler and Murphy. Im not even talking about the initial contracts either. In both cases, these guys would be inactive the year before, and we would assume they we're obvious cut candidates, only to be brought back for another year.   If you do the math, it's Chandler Jones money that we've wasted.

 

We should of had money rolling over, not be in over the cap. Josh's figures haven't even kicked in yet. That concerns me.

 

At the end of the season, I blamed McDermott, but now I'm beginning to think more and more, that it's the lack of talent on Defense. Hyde, Poyer, and Tre we're all signed/drafted before Beane came on. 

 

He hit a grand slam with Allen, no doubt there, but he needs to start connecting a bit more in the trenches. Epenesa, Basham, and Ford were all 2nd round picks, and the return investment there, is really concerning.

 

Maybe Beane hands the keys to someone else, at least in the 2nd round.

 

Josh Allen has made up for some of this team's deficiencies, but we need to improve a bit more around him. Mainly in the trenches.

Every team is going to have weaknesses and no FO is going to hit on all players acquisitions (draft/FA). Could our defense benefit from more playmakers? Of course, but our defense is a very good defense, just reference the defensive DVOA numbers. We certainly need more production from our de’s we picked the last two years, but they are still young with two of them going into year 2, so it’s a little premature to be concerned there. Epenesa and especially Ford, we need more from them. However, Epenesa was asked to majorly change his body and I imagine this has forced him to play differently, while also learning the pro game. I’m not ready to write him off. 
 

As far as equating money spent on Butler or Addison potentially being used on a guy like Jones, it’s not that simple. We would have to of signed someone for those roles, and those people would cost money, most likely….the Chandler Jones money. Middling D like talent isn’t very cheap. 
 

The FO in the McDermott era has done a fantastic job building this team. Of course there is always room for improvement, but look what we came from! Previous front offices during the drought era don’t even compare to this one. We are a super bowl contending team and it’s no accident, it was via calculated strategy. We aren’t privy to internal discussions and team building strategies, and signing players is much more complicated that signing based on football skills. The people side of the equation is very complex for those on the outside looking in like us. At the end of the day, we can only judge based on results. Again, they can do better and I’m sure Beane/McDermott would be the first to admit that, but they also built a super bowl contender, and that matters. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[somnus00]

1 hour ago, ngbills said:

And AZ was a playoff contender

Kind of flukey playoff appearance, no? They were not a championship contender then. And they aren't now.

[thenorthremembers]

31 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

You asked to do you a favor and look up free agent difference makers.  These were just off the top of my head.  And you are correct my typing is terrible.

 

Let me change the argument.  I'm trying to maintain a respectful conversation.  Beane made Morse the highest paid center in the league when he signed him from KC.  Were you against that signing?  I'm trying to understand when the dollars spent equal a difference maker and when they do not?  Morse was relatively young but was rated the 15th best center in the league with a concussion history.  He ended up being a solid starter but not a great one.  So was that a hit or a miss in your mind as a free agent signing?  

 

The Morse signing ended up being great signing for the Bills.   At the time, and I dont recall my emotions then, I was probably pretty indifferent about Morse.   Paradis was the guy everyone wanted, but IMO Morse ended up being the better signing.    On the field Solid or great is debatable,   I think he had a very good year last year.  In addition, in spite of the drastic over reaction about his concussion here, the guy has only missed 1 game of his own volition.  Not to mention he has been under center for the formative years of two of the best Quarterbacks currently in the NFL.  That said, he is obviously doing something right off teh field, and helping with line calls. 

 

I am not sure if 15th best center if from PFF, but the money they've spent on Morse has been money well spent in my opinion.   However, his signing was done when the core of the team was being built, and the Bills had the money to spend.   They are in a different place then they were then.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

24 minutes ago, Allen2Moulds said:

I'm usually not negative, I love my Bills, but I had to get this off my chest.

 

We've done really well in some areas of this team, but have really whiffed on the DLine. In back to back years we invested a 2nd round pick on a guy, only for that guy to be mostly inactive. We've also blown a decent amount of money, as others point out, on some mediocre talent at best. 

 

We've spent about 10M on guys like Addison, and wasted about 7M more on guys like Butler and Murphy. Im not even talking about the initial contracts either. In both cases, these guys would be inactive the year before, and we would assume they we're obvious cut candidates, only to be brought back for another year.   If you do the math, it's Chandler Jones money that we've wasted.

 

We should of had money rolling over, not be in over the cap. Josh's figures haven't even kicked in yet. That concerns me.

 

At the end of the season, I blamed McDermott, but now I'm beginning to think more and more, that it's the lack of talent on Defense. Hyde, Poyer, and Tre we're all signed/drafted before Beane came on. 

 

He hit a grand slam with Allen, no doubt there, but he needs to start connecting a bit more in the trenches. Epenesa, Basham, and Ford were all 2nd round picks, and the return investment there, is really concerning.

 

Maybe Beane hands the keys to someone else, at least in the 2nd round.

 

Josh Allen has made up for some of this team's deficiencies, but we need to improve a bit more around him. Mainly in the trenches.

I don't call Beane a wizard but he has done better than you are giving him credit.  I agree he has pissed away tons of money on bad DL singings.  However in the draft he has done as good as any other GM.  Hits and Misses.  Oliver has turned out to be solid.  Wallace(I know he is now gone and was an UDFA) and Taron Johnson are good players. He retained Milano.  Bass, Knox, Davis, Brown, and Singletary are all solid performers acquired via the draft.  Ford is probably a bust and Epenesa is looking that way too. I'm not going to argue about Edmunds again, my feelings are well documented.  Rousseau looked ok as a rookie.  Heck even Basham looked ok at the end of the year.  

[JohnNord]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Beane is not going to pay that kind of money to free agents.  You have to overpay to land a big player.  Get used to this.  

25 minutes ago, Tanoros said:

What bad contracts contributed to the mild mismanagement of the cap? As far as FA signings the Star signing was probably the worst, but more so because of his c19 opt out year (we’d be able to move on with very little hit this year if not for that). 
 

The Spain resigning wasn’t great, and the Williams resigning (in hindsight, but at the time, it was the right call). 
 

Beane hasn’t really paid big bucks for FA’s and he has generally resigned our own to reasonable contracts. 
 

I really don’t understand where a comment like yours if coming from? The Bills FO is more about developing talent that is drafted, and they won’t all be star players. But, they have done a good job drafting overall and we are only going into year 6, but year 5 of Beane as GM. 
 

Personally, I feel like Beane and the Bills FO have done a fantastic job! They don’t typically overlay for FA, mostly by avoiding the big ticket names, they draft well, and are very reasonable with contracts. They even had to adjust course with the c19 impacts to the salary cap. 
 

We are one of the top teams in the league, and our cap situation isn’t bad at. At this point, our key to success is to continue drafting well, having starters on rookie contracts and, and savvy via cost benefit analysis in regards to FA signings (in other words, don’t overpay for the big names because it’s rare that they play up to their cost). 

while I agree Beane has done a great job overall the original comment was correct.  He has whiffed badly on the defensive line.  
 

Star’s contract was bad.  It was one of the highest for his position and he always underperformed.  His dead cap hurt the team for several seasons.

 

There was also Vernon Butler, Trent Murphy and players like Mario Addison who have been serviceable but less than stellar for his contract.  

[Allen2Moulds]

22 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Paup was defensive Player of the Year. I would define that as a difference maker.  They were all free agents difference makers that won SuperBowls with their new teams.  There are others that had great performances with their new teams.  Rod Woodson.  Shannon Sharpe.    

 

Heck you can make an argument any player that becomes a consistent starter signed via free agency is a "difference maker".   I posed the question back to the poster, what do you make of the Morse signing.  Beane made him the highest paid center in the league, and he has been solid as a Bill but not spectacular.  Was that a difference maker signing or not?  Certainly was high dollars.

No, you're right and are being more sensible and less emotional than I am. However, I still believe we could of signed Jones, without blowing up the plan. 3 year deals are ideal for this, exactly the length that Beane typically strives for. It just made too much sense, but who knows, maybe we matched, and he took Vegas anyways. Can't pretend to know a players motivation.